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If the DEs are gone by #19 but Kindle and Spoon are still there


coachx
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  1. 1. If the DEs are gone but Kindle and Spoon are there at 19 who do you take ?



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I would take spoon, because he is better in coverage than Kindle, but Kindle does present a unique situation, if we didnt have Nicholas at SLB. Kindle could have filled in a similiar role that Orakpo did last year in Washington, playing SLB on running downs and DE on passing downs.

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My question is, what will Kindle be 3 years from now? My intuition says he'll be a 265lb passrushing terror similar to J. Abraham.

What will Spoon be 3 years from now? I have no idea. Somewhere between Dmo Williams and a pretty good starter who doesn't factor as a passrusher is my guess.

Kindle has more talent, Spoon is the safer pick.

If I were presented with this scenario, I'd immediately look and see if there is a WR/OT/OG/OC worth taking with the pick, as neither is super appealing.

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My question is, what will Kindle be 3 years from now? My intuition says he'll be a 265lb passrushing terror similar to J. Abraham.

What will Spoon be 3 years from now? I have no idea. Somewhere between Dmo Williams and a pretty good starter who doesn't factor as a passrusher is my guess.

Kindle has more talent, Spoon is the safer pick.

If I were presented with this scenario, I'd immediately look and see if there is a WR/OT/OG/OC worth taking with the pick, as neither is super appealing.

I agree Kindle does have alot of potential as a pass rusher, and could play the same type of role that Orakpo played last year in Washington as he bulks up.

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My question is, what will Kindle be 3 years from now? My intuition says he'll be a 265lb passrushing terror similar to J. Abraham.

What will Spoon be 3 years from now? I have no idea. Somewhere between Dmo Williams and a pretty good starter who doesn't factor as a passrusher is my guess.

Kindle has more talent, Spoon is the safer pick.

If I were presented with this scenario, I'd immediately look and see if there is a WR/OT/OG/OC worth taking with the pick, as neither is super appealing.

The only way he wont be a factor rushing the passer is if we dont blitz, I guess you know something we dont about the scheme we run and how we will play Defense. And Kindle has more talent? why? because he can play DE? Spoon doesnt go 1st rd or we are not as interested in Spoon if Spoon is just going to be a DMO.

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My question is, what will Kindle be 3 years from now? My intuition says he'll be a 265lb passrushing terror similar to J. Abraham.

What will Spoon be 3 years from now? I have no idea. Somewhere between Dmo Williams and a pretty good starter who doesn't factor as a passrusher is my guess.

Kindle has more talent, Spoon is the safer pick.

If I were presented with this scenario, I'd immediately look and see if there is a WR/OT/OG/OC worth taking with the pick, as neither is super appealing.

:blink:

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The only way he wont be a factor rushing the passer is if we dont blitz, I guess you know something we dont about the scheme we run and how we will play Defense. And Kindle has more talent? why? because he can play DE? Spoon doesnt go 1st rd or we are not as interested in Spoon if Spoon is just going to be a DMO.

Spoon doesn't have a physical mindset against blockers, has very short arms, which will likely always limit his ability to get off blocks, and he's not a consistently physical hitter.

His hand use is putrid. Absolutely putrid, which is why(along with his short arms) he sucks as a pass rusher, unless he's just running against air. Fb's/Te's/Ol/Rb's generally had no trouble blocking him up when he came.

He does time up his blitzes well, and has a burst, but if you're going to actually provide pressure as a blitzer in the NFL, from either the DE/DT/LB spot, you have to be able to beat blockers in pass protection. He doesn't, and it's up in the air if he ever will.

He also overruns a ton of plays.

He reminds me a lot of another "superstar" college lbr, except he's less physically gifted than that guy: Derrick Johnson.

D.J. was supposed to be all that and a bag of chips too...except he had this problem. In college, he just jumped around blocks, he didn't take guys on and shed them...and he tried to do the same in the pros, and it just didn't work. Pro Ol aren't easily juked by lbr's, and pro plays happen so much faster that if you try to jump around a block instead of taking him on and breaking it, the play is already by you by the time you get around. And pro backs tend to be good enough that if you jump to one side they immediately cut to the other.

D.J. also struggled using his hands and overrunning plays, and all of this added up to a solid, not great lbr, picked in the 1st round of the draft, who wasn't physical enough. And he had similar or better athleticism, superior size, and far superior length and height, and instincts that looked easily as good as Weatherspoon's did in the big 12, he also made more big plays in college.

I'm very worried about taking an OLB at 19(when OLB's are fairly easily found much lower in the draft, and aren't really an impact position) when the guy has serious questions about physicality, handuse, block shedding, and overruning plays. Very leary. We could be stuck with a guy that's one dimensional in the sense that he's great in pass coverage, but really struggles against the run, AND can't rush the passer. To me , that's not worth a 1st round pick. That's DMO Williams, and there are guys in the this draft who will be available later who can give us something similar. I like D.Washington and Butler as much or more than I like Weatherspoon. A.J. Edds is impressive. N. Bowman is impressive. R.Curran could give us some explosive playmaking, and isn't that much smaller than Weatherspoon. To me, there's a lot of lb talent in this draft that will be available later, we don't need to spend a high pick on Weatherspoon when he has such big question marks. Those other guys have sig. question marks too, but we wouldn't be blowing a 1st rounder on them.

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The only way he wont be a factor rushing the passer is if we dont blitz, I guess you know something we dont about the scheme we run and how we will play Defense. And Kindle has more talent? why? because he can play DE? Spoon doesnt go 1st rd or we are not as interested in Spoon if Spoon is just going to be a DMO.

Also, your last 2 sentences don't have any logic whatsoever. We have no idea how good he's going to be. None.

J.P.P. could turn out to be worse than Jarvis Moss, or Jamall Anderson. Is he also not going first round, do we not also presumably have some interest in him? B. Graham could be Chauncey Davis. Are we not interested? Is he not going first round?

If we take him in the first round we aren't predicting him to be Dmo Williams...but that doesn't mean he isn't. Drafting is so far from an exact science it's ridiculous.

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Spoon doesn't have a physical mindset against blockers, has very short arms, which will likely always limit his ability to get off blocks, and he's not a consistently physical hitter.

His hand use is putrid. Absolutely putrid, which is why(along with his short arms) he sucks as a pass rusher, unless he's just running against air. Fb's/Te's/Ol/Rb's generally had no trouble blocking him up when he came.

He does time up his blitzes well, and has a burst, but if you're going to actually provide pressure as a blitzer in the NFL, from either the DE/DT/LB spot, you have to be able to beat blockers in pass protection. He doesn't, and it's up in the air if he ever will.

He was destroying non-OLman in the senior bowl drills, wasn't he? I'm sure he was always getting past them with ease, moreso than any other LB there.

He also overruns a ton of plays.

He reminds me a lot of another "superstar" college lbr, except he's less physically gifted than that guy: Derrick Johnson.

D.J. was supposed to be all that and a bag of chips too...except he had this problem. In college, he just jumped around blocks, he didn't take guys on and shed them...and he tried to do the same in the pros, and it just didn't work. Pro Ol aren't easily juked by lbr's, and pro plays happen so much faster that if you try to jump around a block instead of taking him on and breaking it, the play is already by you by the time you get around. And pro backs tend to be good enough that if you jump to one side they immediately cut to the other.

D.J. also struggled using his hands and overrunning plays, and all of this added up to a solid, not great lbr, picked in the 1st round of the draft, who wasn't physical enough. And he had similar or better athleticism, superior size, and far superior length and height, and instincts that looked easily as good as Weatherspoon's did in the big 12, he also made more big plays in college.

I'm very worried about taking an OLB at 19(when OLB's are fairly easily found much lower in the draft, and aren't really an impact position) when the guy has serious questions about physicality, handuse, block shedding, and overruning plays. Very leary. We could be stuck with a guy that's one dimensional in the sense that he's great in pass coverage, but really struggles against the run, AND can't rush the passer. To me , that's not worth a 1st round pick. That's DMO Williams, and there are guys in the this draft who will be available later who can give us something similar. I like D.Washington and Butler as much or more than I like Weatherspoon. A.J. Edds is impressive. N. Bowman is impressive. R.Curran could give us some explosive playmaking, and isn't that much smaller than Weatherspoon. To me, there's a lot of lb talent in this draft that will be available later, we don't need to spend a high pick on Weatherspoon when he has such big question marks. Those other guys have sig. question marks too, but we wouldn't be blowing a 1st rounder on them.

Overruns plays, I agree. Struggles to shed blocks.. sort've but it's not as big as it's made out to be, especially when he's got Lofton next to him. I don't think he'll be worse than Peterson at OLB. Btw, why do you like Washington more than Weatherspoon? I don't think that Washington will impact at any position besides in a 3-4 at ILB which isn't good news for us. AJ Edds I like though. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Weatherspoon in the first either even though he's been my favourite prospect for awhile. Instead, Edds in the 3rd would represent better value for us imo.

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He did look good in the Senior Bowl drills, but those can be very misleading. The defensive player has a massive advantage over the offensive player in one/one pass pro drills, because the defensive guy knows it's a pass play. A. Carriker looked absolutely dominant off the edge in the Senior Bowl, and then immediately gets put at NT in the NFL.

If you want to see what kind of passrusher he really is, look at the game tape.

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He was destroying non-OLman in the senior bowl drills, wasn't he? I'm sure he was always getting past them with ease, moreso than any other LB there.

Overruns plays, I agree. Struggles to shed blocks.. sort've but it's not as big as it's made out to be, especially when he's got Lofton next to him. I don't think he'll be worse than Peterson at OLB. Btw, why do you like Washington more than Weatherspoon? I don't think that Washington will impact at any position besides in a 3-4 at ILB which isn't good news for us. AJ Edds I like though. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Weatherspoon in the first either even though he's been my favourite prospect for awhile. Instead, Edds in the 3rd would represent better value for us imo.

And to answer your question, I like Washington more because he's more consistently a big hitter, he's a better pass rusher, and he's better in coverage. He also has more length and room to put on muscle.

Washington is pretty physical, and quite athletic. I just see fewer problems with physicality for him, and similar burst.

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Spoon doesn't have a physical mindset against blockers, has very short arms, which will likely always limit his ability to get off blocks, and he's not a consistently physical hitter.

His hand use is putrid. Absolutely putrid, which is why(along with his short arms) he sucks as a pass rusher, unless he's just running against air. Fb's/Te's/Ol/Rb's generally had no trouble blocking him up when he came.

He does time up his blitzes well, and has a burst, but if you're going to actually provide pressure as a blitzer in the NFL, from either the DE/DT/LB spot, you have to be able to beat blockers in pass protection. He doesn't, and it's up in the air if he ever will.

He also overruns a ton of plays.

He reminds me a lot of another "superstar" college lbr, except he's less physically gifted than that guy: Derrick Johnson.

D.J. was supposed to be all that and a bag of chips too...except he had this problem. In college, he just jumped around blocks, he didn't take guys on and shed them...and he tried to do the same in the pros, and it just didn't work. Pro Ol aren't easily juked by lbr's, and pro plays happen so much faster that if you try to jump around a block instead of taking him on and breaking it, the play is already by you by the time you get around. And pro backs tend to be good enough that if you jump to one side they immediately cut to the other.

D.J. also struggled using his hands and overrunning plays, and all of this added up to a solid, not great lbr, picked in the 1st round of the draft, who wasn't physical enough. And he had similar or better athleticism, superior size, and far superior length and height, and instincts that looked easily as good as Weatherspoon's did in the big 12, he also made more big plays in college.

I'm very worried about taking an OLB at 19(when OLB's are fairly easily found much lower in the draft, and aren't really an impact position) when the guy has serious questions about physicality, handuse, block shedding, and overruning plays. Very leary. We could be stuck with a guy that's one dimensional in the sense that he's great in pass coverage, but really struggles against the run, AND can't rush the passer. To me , that's not worth a 1st round pick. That's DMO Williams, and there are guys in the this draft who will be available later who can give us something similar. I like D.Washington and Butler as much or more than I like Weatherspoon. A.J. Edds is impressive. N. Bowman is impressive. R.Curran could give us some explosive playmaking, and isn't that much smaller than Weatherspoon. To me, there's a lot of lb talent in this draft that will be available later, we don't need to spend a high pick on Weatherspoon when he has such big question marks. Those other guys have sig. question marks too, but we wouldn't be blowing a 1st rounder on them.

Cool story bro...

Lucky TD has a message board scout to bounce opinions off. Hopefully after TD reads this, he'll be so far down his big board we wont even bring him in to work him out...

College career: Excellent

Senior Bowl: Excellent

Combine: Excellent

Despite the 'real' evidence, Edds, Washington and other 3-6 rounders are much more rounded prospects who can 'do it all' lol

Absolutely SMH at posts like this...

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I totally agree i thought was the only one on here that felt that way. There are several good LBS in the later rounds of this draft and Witherspoon doesent seem like he is sure thing Pro Bowler to me. Look up Rico Mccoy as well to me he is best LB prospect in this draft should be there late third early 4th.

Kindle gets to the QB in everygame ive seen. If he falls to us i would take him oever spoon. He reminds me of a young kearse. Also wouldnt mind Brandom Graham also seems like a better pick up than Spoon in the first.

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