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What is with the D. Morgan love ?


coachx
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Can some one sale D. Morgan to me ? He seems to have the most love of anyone on here. I contribute that to 3 things:

1. He played for the hometown GT

2. He plays a position of need / DE

3. The mock drafts rate him high (just like they did M. Johnson last year but he slipped big time)

Here is what my eyes saw last year:

1. Non factor vs. Miami. Miami threw deep all day but Morgan could not pressure the QB vs. there late round LT prospect.

2. Non factor vs. UGA. A poor UGA team ran the ball all over Morgan.

3. He was totally shut down when he saw a legit NFL quality LT in the Orange Bowl vs. Iowa.

4. Vandy and UNC also have LTs who are NFL prospects in the later rounds but he got no sacks vs. them either. I wish we got a chance to seem him play vs. Maryland's LT last year but we didn't.

The 5 games he played vs. LTs who are NFL prospects he could not get even 1 sack. Are those not some serious warning signs ? Especially considering we were recently burned with Jamal Anderson as a hrrmm.......pass rusher.

We all probably like and respect Mike Mayock and I like his belief that when evaluating prospects he doesn't care about big games where the player had no adversity to over come. He wants to see them after they get knocked down vs. good competition and how they respond. Well, the proof is in the pudding that this Morgan simply does not respond to solid competition with much production at all.

Then there is Graham who plays some of the best ball of his life vs. solid compeition at both the Senior Bowl practices and the actual game. On other hand, Morgan is a complete non factor when facing solid competition.

Edited by coachx
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Can some one sale D. Morgan to me ?

Here is what my eyes saw last year:

1. Non factor vs. Miami. Miami threw deep all day but Morgan could not pressure the QB to stop the field day Miami's offense had

2. Non factor vs. UGA. A poor UGA team ran the ball all over Morgan.

3. He was otally shut down when he saw an NFL quality LT in the Orange Bowl vs. Iowa.

4. Vandy and UNC also have LTs who are NFL prospects in the later rounds but he got no sacks vs. them either. I wish we got a chance to seem him play vs. Maryland's LT last year but we didn't.

The 5 games he played vs. LTs who are NFL prospects he could not get even 1 sack. Are those not some serious warning signs ? Especially considering we were recently burned with Jamal Anderson as a hrrm.......pass rusher.

We all probably like Mike Mayock and I like his belief that when evaluating prospects he doesn't care about big games where the player had no adversity to over come. He wants to see them after they get knocked down vs. good competition and how they respond. Well, the proof is in the pudding that this Morgan simply does not respond to solid competition with much production at all.

Then there is Graham who plays some of the best ball of his life vs. solid compeition at both the Senior Bowl practices and the actual game. On other hand, Morgan is a complete non factor when facing solid competition.

Dude I don't know what you were watching, but you are acting like Morgan got taken out of the game going against one on one matchups against Miami and any other of the teams you mentioned. The fact of the matter is he drew constant double teams and even the occasional triple-team against Miami, he rarely lined up against Bulaga and they shifted Kyle Calloway inside to RG instead of letting him try to block Morgan. That should give you a sense of the respect they have for him.

Do you even realize he is a LE? Not a RE? That is why he didn't line up often against UNC and Vandy's LT's, and another reason why he didn't line up against Bulaga regularly.

This post is just so far off base that I can't even believe I took the time to respond to it. I can't even believe you watched the games when you don't even realize that he started at LE every game for GT this year.

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I disagree

Derrick Morgan would be the dram 1st round DE for us.... I wouldn't trade our 3rd round pick to get him tho.... I would trade a 4th or 5th round pick.... Either way.... We would have to jump the Titans.

I was hoping to hear some actual reasons as to why you disagree.

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I can't even believe you watched the games when you don't even realize that he started at LE every game for GT this year.

He played RE more then your letting on. My focus was on when he played vs. true NFL prospects and not just the bums.

Does being shut down by collegiate RTs (Miami, UGA, Iowa, Vandy, UNC) not worry you ?

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He is rated one of the best DE because:

Graham has questionable size for a LE and not great athletic ability, but pretty good.

JPP has ridiculou athletic ability, but not as good production.

Griffen has great athletic ability with pretty good production.

Morgan has produced for more than just one year. He has the perfect size for a LE and good speed/strength and has produced at a consistent level.

He is one of the more safe picks in the draft. Obviously no DE is a guarantee, but he definitley has a less chance of being a bust than a guy like JPP.

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He played RE more then your letting on. My focus was on when he played vs. true NFL prospects and not just the bums.

Does being shut down by collegiate RTs (Miami, UGA, Iowa, Vandy, UNC) not worry you ?

I'm not trying to say he never slid over to RE, I realize that he did, most good pass rushers at LE do. However you are again assuming that Morgan was going against only the RT in 1 on 1 matchups every time he rushed the passer, and that is not anywhere close to true. After he single-handedly dismantled Clemson's offense in week 1 he drew boatloads of attention the rest of the year as I said earlier.

It is also wrong to expect a quality pass rusher to play 12 games and get 12 sacks, one every game. Even the past pass rushers in the NFL will go a game or two without getting a sack, and then they will get 2 or 3 in the next game or two and have a large impact on the game. Morgan did this last year, and also played the run well in addition to rushing the passer. He may not have gotten a sack every week, but that has as much to do with him being schemed against by opposing blocking schemes as it does anything else.

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It is also wrong to expect a quality pass rusher to play 12 games and get 12 sacks, one every game. Even the past pass rushers in the NFL will go a game or two without getting a sack, and then they will get 2 or 3 in the next game or two and have a large impact on the game. Morgan did this last year, and also played the run well in addition to rushing the passer. He may not have gotten a sack every week, but that has as much to do with him being schemed against by opposing blocking schemes as it does anything else.

True points. Most any top DE is going to face schemes and double teams that attempt to nuetralize them or minimize their impact.

All I wanted to point out is that Morgan only shined vs. average and good collegiate talent but when he had the chances to show-case his skills vs. other NFL OL propects he did not produce.

On playing the run well.........The UGA & Iowa games have alot of tape where he did not do too well. Dominating the ACC really does not impress me too much at all.

I just think he is overrated..........just as M. Johnson was last year. Buyer beware is all I'm saying. We seem to have picked out the weaknesses of other guys (like Weatherspoon and Graham) and guys like Morgan have gotten a pass on the critical analysis.

I really wish Morgan was a senior so we would know for sure whether these worries are warranted when the microscope would be on him at the Senior Bowl practice and in the game itself vs. some solid pro prospects.

Edited by coachx
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lol @ shutdown vs Miami.

I don't know what your lol'ing about Morgan's peformance vs. Miami.

Vs. Miami Jacoby Harris was 20/25 with 3TDs and no interceptions and no sacks. He had time to sit back and throw deep balls all day long. Seems the pass rush was shut down and Morgan was a non-factor vs. the pass. Miami also ran for 187 yards with a 4.7 apc once th game was out of hand. GT new Miami was trying to run out the clock and could not stop it. I would say Morgan was a non factor vs. the run in that game too.

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Dude I don't know what you were watching, but you are acting like Morgan got taken out of the game going against one on one matchups against Miami and any other of the teams you mentioned. The fact of the matter is he drew constant double teams and even the occasional triple-team against Miami, he rarely lined up against Bulaga and they shifted Kyle Calloway inside to RG instead of letting him try to block Morgan. That should give you a sense of the respect they have for him.

Do you even realize he is a LE? Not a RE? That is why he didn't line up often against UNC and Vandy's LT's, and another reason why he didn't line up against Bulaga regularly.

This post is just so far off base that I can't even believe I took the time to respond to it. I can't even believe you watched the games when you don't even realize that he started at LE every game for GT this year.

I +1 you for that.

My god, he isn't watching the same videos that I have seen. If he is, he must think Derrick Morgan is another player. Maybe he has him confused with the other DE.

Morgan saw a double team on practically all passing downs and on an occasional triple team and he still never quit.

Morgan is a top notch talent at defensive end. Great burst, great hustle, good size and strength.

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I don't know what your lol'ing about Morgan's peformance vs. Miami.

Vs. Miami Jacoby Harris was 20/25 with 3TDs and no interceptions and no sacks. He had time to sit back and throw deep balls all day long. Seems the pass rush was shut down and Morgan was a non-factor vs. the pass. Miami also ran for 187 yards with a 4.7 apc once th game was out of hand. GT new Miami was trying to run out the clock and could not stop it. I would say Morgan was a non factor vs. the run in that game too.

Don't you think there is a chance that Harris had so much time and so much success against GT because they routinely doubled Morgan all game? Please go back and re-watch the game, he drew so much attention from Miami's offense. You can say that he was a non-factor versus the run and he also didn't rush Harris effectively, but when you are getting doubled that is supposed to free up your teammates to make plays. Against Miami they didn't. That's not on Morgan.

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Im not saying anyone is right or wrong here, but i will say what alot of you are saying is that he wasnt productive in games sometimes due to double and triple teams?

My quesion is this? Was graham not double teamed as well? i would imagine a guy coming in that is having the kinda production that graham had been having the past 2 years it doesnt seem to effect him? Actually if you go look at his sacks numbers alot fo his sacks come in the bigger games" or ranked opponents! thats impressive to me.

Im not saying morgan is a bad player, i just honestly believe looking at the production graham is unmatched. I mean we are talking about 3 inches and 7 pounds diff here!

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Im not saying anyone is right or wrong here, but i will say what alot of you are saying is that he wasnt productive in games sometimes due to double and triple teams?

My quesion is this? Was graham not double teamed as well? i would imagine a guy coming in that is having the kinda production that graham had been having the past 2 years it doesnt seem to effect him? Actually if you go look at his sacks numbers alot fo his sacks come in the bigger games" or ranked opponents! thats impressive to me.

Im not saying morgan is a bad player, i just honestly believe looking at the production graham is unmatched. I mean we are talking about 3 inches and 7 pounds diff here!

You may be right about Graham showing up in bigger games, and that is something you definitely can't discount. I love scouting players like that because they just manage to step it up in big games. I don't know if you can say Morgan didn't show up in big games, but both of them faced double teams, you are right. Based off of the games of Michigan and Georgia Tech that I have seen I would probably say Morgan attracted more attention from opposing blocking schemes than Graham did, but I don't have my notes in front of me so I can't be sure of that. I can think of at least one game off the top of my head in which Morgan was routinely double teamed (against Miami), and I can think of... 3 games in which Graham routinely had one on one matchups (versus Western Michigan, Iowa and Wisconsin, though these are all off the top of my head).

So going off of that I think it's fair to say that Morgan drew more doubles than Graham did, but you don't have to take my word for it I guess. That is just what I remember. If I'm right, can you really fault Morgan for not putting up consistent TFL and sack numbers in big games despite double teams? I can't fault him for that at all.

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Can some one sale D. Morgan to me ? He seems to have the most love of anyone on here. I contribute that to 3 things:

1. He played for the hometown GT

2. He plays a position of need / DE

3. The mock drafts rate him high (just like they did M. Johnson last year but he slipped big time)

Here is what my eyes saw last year:

1. Non factor vs. Miami. Miami threw deep all day but Morgan could not pressure the QB vs. there late round LT prospect.

2. Non factor vs. UGA. A poor UGA team ran the ball all over Morgan.

3. He was totally shut down when he saw a legit NFL quality LT in the Orange Bowl vs. Iowa.

4. Vandy and UNC also have LTs who are NFL prospects in the later rounds but he got no sacks vs. them either. I wish we got a chance to seem him play vs. Maryland's LT last year but we didn't.

The 5 games he played vs. LTs who are NFL prospects he could not get even 1 sack. Are those not some serious warning signs ? Especially considering we were recently burned with Jamal Anderson as a hrrmm.......pass rusher.

We all probably like and respect Mike Mayock and I like his belief that when evaluating prospects he doesn't care about big games where the player had no adversity to over come. He wants to see them after they get knocked down vs. good competition and how they respond. Well, the proof is in the pudding that this Morgan simply does not respond to solid competition with much production at all.

Then there is Graham who plays some of the best ball of his life vs. solid compeition at both the Senior Bowl practices and the actual game. On other hand, Morgan is a complete non factor when facing solid competition.

Let me see if I understand what you are saying here.

Derrick Morgan seems like an average player at best. He washed out against good teams and was a non-factor against poor teams. It seems that if he can't respond to solid competition at the college level, then he will never be able to compete at the NFL level.

This is what I understand you to be saying. Is my understanding correct?

If so, I have only this to ponder;

Why is he rated so highly by NFL analysts, scouts and GMs to the point where we would need to trade up from pick #19 in the 1st round to acquire him?

Are you making a case that Derrick Morgan is an average player at best and neither we, nor anyone else should select him in the 1st round or are you making a case that we do not need to select any DE in the 1st round?

I am just trying to get a handle on where you are going with your thread.

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Let me see if I understand what you are saying here.

Derrick Morgan seems like an average player at best. He washed out against good teams and was a non-factor against poor teams. It seems that if he can't respond to solid competition at the college level, then he will never be able to compete at the NFL level.

He is 1st round talent for sure. Definately not an "average player." He is a very good player who played in very bad football league that could have made his appearance go from a "good player" to the perception of a "great player." I wonder how productive he would have been in a different league with some real competition.

I just think that having him in the top 5 is too high. I could see him slipping out of the top 10 and listed reasons why.

DEs and LTs are the positions teams reach for morer then any other. No secret there.

This is draft time. Its the time to look at both sides of the coin, good and bad.

When it comes to 1st round picks and millions of guaranteed money I'm a pretty risk averse guy. I want to give that money to a "sure thing."

The draft is not a science, it is an art and this what captivates us so much.

Edited by coachx
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