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Do we really have a NEED at DE?


thempizzle
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I keep reading how everyone is infatuated with the idea that we need a DE really badly for whatever reason...I don't think that is the case at all.

If we had PJ throughout the entire season instead of a random plug-in every week, our pressure wouldve been much better as a unit. Abe still had a boatload of TFLs and play disrupts. He didn't record sacks but he was still effective.

The Beerman went on a rampage this season...

Chauncey Davis has always been a solid player for us.

Busterson is still pretty solid against the run and I'm pretty sure we'll see him continue to get some snaps.

Lawrence Sidbury showed some great flashes and already has earned a nice rep in the locker room.

We picked Sidbury and Kroy in recent years and both have already shown flashes. We have FIVE defensive ends that get playing time. What more do we need?

The real need is at DT and that is going to be great for us when Peria gets back on the field.

To me it just seems that we have more pressing needs at the moment. A stud WR to put next to Roddy, a backup Tight-End that we can groom to be the next Gonzo, some more depth at corner with guys who are bigger than 5'8, some more big bodies on our line... I'm just not sold on this theory that we HAVE to get a DE high in the draft.

Do that many of you really think DE is our biggest need?

Edited by thempizzle
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26 sacks, with our leading DE having only 5.5 of them says yes, we need a DE.

Our leader in sacks was a DT. Not a good thing, unless he is putting out Rod Coleman numbers (12 sacks)

Abe - poor season, can he bounce back? You can hope, but cant assume he will at 32. Also, has Abe ever played 3 straight full seasons w/o a significant injury?

Beirmann - started hot, got half of his sacks in the first 2-3 weeks. Fizzled alot as the season went on. I like Kroy, but he gets way overvalued here.

Sidbury - potential w/o production. Only got one sack. He could mature, but you cant bank on a 4th rounder becoming 'that guy' in year 2.

Davis - good all around DT, but not a pass rusher.

Anderson - please......

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Obviously it would be nice to draft some stud DE that leads the league in sacks, but the reality of it is that we are actually deep at DE.

If our tackles were healthy and as effective as they should've been, our ends would've gotten more sacks.

Not everything is so black and white. The fact that we only had 26 sacks doesnt mean that our ends are useless.

Abe had a pretty good season... he just didnt have the sacks. He was among the leaders in pass disrupts and TFLs...

Sidbury played very well every time he got on the field.

Chauncey plays DE... and pretty **** well for a situational guy.

Sidbury and Kroy are going to continue to develop, they are going to get better this offseason and I wouldn't be surprised if you see Sidbury start to get some major PT next season.

We JUST drafted a DE... we drafted one the year before that... we have addressed the need and are five deep.

It is somewhere we can improve, for sure, but not OUR BIGGEST need, I'm sorry.

Edited by thempizzle
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Obviously it would be nice to draft some stud DE that leads the league in sacks, but the reality of it is that we are actually deep at DE.

If our tackles were healthy and as effective as they should've been, our ends would've gotten more sacks.

Not everything is so black and white. The fact that we only had 26 sacks doesnt mean that our ends are useless.

I think we are deep @ DE with backups, but we need a starter. Sure either Kroy or Sid could mature, that would be great for Abes replacement. Still doesnt help the LE spot though.

Sure, Jerry could help, but is he really gonna make the numbers go up leaps and bounds?

I am a huge Jerry fan, but unless he comes back and plays like Coleman or Sapp he isnt gonna make up all the DE deficiencies.

It all comes down to TD and Smith. They say they are looking for more pass rush. How they will find it is unknown.

I am just not thinking it is wise to assume a 4th and 5th round guy will become a star, because if they dont....it could be a long season again for the pass defense.

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I think everyone (me included) fells that more outside pressure on the QB is needed by the Falcon defense.

There are several different ways to get the outside pressure but the most common and most traditional is from a pass rushing DE.

For the 09 regular season the Falcon DE position (Both)

QB sacks 14

QB Hits 24

QB pressures 90

total disruption of the QB 128 times out of 536 pass attempts

or about 4 out of every 5 passes the QB is not bothered by the Falcon DE

Oh I know that in addition the DTs and LB, CB, SS sometime disrupt the QB

but they mostly look for the DEs to do that job.

Edited by delaigle
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I don't think we have a need at DE regarding depth, we do have a need at getting pressure opposite end of Abe. I don't, however, think that we'll draft one in the first round. We need OLB and CB depth more than anything.

Now if we happen to draft a DE in the first round that would be a sign to me that JA98 is gone.

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Just some food for thought : We had 28 sacks this season...

Hypothetically, if Peria Jerry played the ENTIRE season... it would be pretty safe to say we would have recorded at least 4-8 more sacks as a unit...he would've been able to get a couple himself and would've opened the door for at least a couple more by our DEs...

If we had 32-33 sacks, we would be 16th in the league...

If we had 34-36 sacks, we would be 12th in the league...

Would that have quieted all of this talk, if we were 12-16th in the league in sacks?

Edited by thempizzle
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I think everyone (me included) that more outside pressure on the QB is needed by the Falcon defense.

There are several different ways to get the outside pressure but the most common and most traditional

is from a pass rushing DE.

For the 09 regular season the Falcon DE position (Both)

QB sacks 14

QB Hits 24

QB pressures 90

total disruption of the QB 128 times out of 536 pass attempts

or about 4 out of every 5 passes the QB is not bothered by the Falcon DE

Oh I know that in addition the DTs and LB, CB, SS sometime disrupt the QB

but they mostly look for the DEs to do that job.

good info. that shows it isnt just that we arent getting the sack. the pressure isnt even there. It showed watching alot of the games. Dont forget a couple games (like MIA) made those numbers look better than they were in most games even.

QBs can create a subway sub and finish it before a DE gets to them sometimes.

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good info. that shows it isnt just that we arent getting the sack. the pressure isnt even there. It showed watching alot of the games. Dont forget a couple games (like MIA) made those numbers look better than they were in most games even.

QBs can create a subway sub and finish it before a DE gets to them sometimes.

The Miami game was a perfect example of what the dline is capable of if it was full-strength. Jerry played his first game and already made a big impact. A great DT is so huge. If we had that the whole season, I don't think our pass rush would've looked so weak.

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1) You don't know how well the defense would have played with PJ in. So its hard to put too much value on him.

2) Yeah abe was getting pressures and no sacks. Pressures are very important, but going from 16 to 5 is a big drop off in sacks.

3) Beerman is a good player. I like him a lot, but he did not go on a rampage.

4) Chauncey IS a solid player, but last year he really did not do much and really didnt even play much.

5) I don't know if Sidbury has shown that many "flashes". He rarely playss. He did show some good things in preseason, but during the season he did not do much besides the fumble recovery.

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1) You don't know how well the defense would have played with PJ in. So its hard to put too much value on him.

2) Yeah abe was getting pressures and no sacks. Pressures are very important, but going from 16 to 5 is a big drop off in sacks.

3) Beerman is a good player. I like him a lot, but he did not go on a rampage.

4) Chauncey IS a solid player, but last year he really did not do much and really didnt even play much.

5) I don't know if Sidbury has shown that many "flashes". He rarely playss. He did show some good things in preseason, but during the season he did not do much besides the fumble recovery.

Abe 703snaps 30soloT 5asst 5.5sacks 1fumble

Biermean 499 snaps 38soloT 11asst 5sacks 1Fumble

Davis 495snaps 16soloT 6asst 1sack 0Fumble

Anderson 528snaps 17soloT 10asst 1/2sack 0Fumble

Sidbury 107snaps 5soloT 0asst 1sack 0fumbles

from those numbers it looks like Davis and Anderson are interchangable

Sidbury had too few snaps (about 7 per game)to make any real judgements on his abilities.

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Just some food for thought : We had 28 sacks this season...

Hypothetically, if Peria Jerry played the ENTIRE season... it would be pretty safe to say we would have recorded at least 4-8 more sacks as a unit...he would've been able to get a couple himself and would've opened the door for at least a couple more by our DEs...

If we had 32-33 sacks, we would be 16th in the league...

If we had 34-36 sacks, we would be 12th in the league...

Would that have quieted all of this talk, if we were 12-16th in the league in sacks?

Emphatically, NO! Let's not settle for mediocrity. As a 12-16th sack team isn't a proud status. Always

strive for the top 10, heck, go out on the and strive for top 5. We must improve our expectations.

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I think we are deep @ DE with tier 2 talent.

Sure, Jerry could help, but is he really gonna make the numbers go up leaps and bounds?

I am a huge Jerry fan, but unless he comes back and plays like Coleman or Sapp he isnt gonna make up all the DE deficiencies.

It all comes down to TD and Smith. They say they are looking for more pass rush. How they will find it is unknown.

I am just not thinking it is wise to assume a 4th and 5th round guy will become a star, because if they dont....it could be a long season again for the pass defense.

I agree w/all you have said.

While I generally believe in building through the draft, if our guy isn't there when we pick, then T.D. will likely draft for another position.

Would they then be able to address/improve the pass rush through a trade, rather than a slim F/A market?

Hali for K.C. is still only 26 and didn't do too poorly applying Q.B. pressure when playing D.E. for them before they switched to 3-4 scheme and he went to L.B.

Michael Johnson and Conner Barwin can both get after the Q.B. and many had them projected in the late 1st round last year even though both were taken in the second round. Neither started last year with the Bengals or Texans but performed well during limited playing time. I don't believe either are projected to start this year as well. They are obviously younger and less experienced.

IMO these are just a few of many trade options which may be out there and we might be able to do it for a next year's pick or pick + player(s), leaving our 19th pick this year to pursue other areas of need without trading down out of the first round.

Does some sort of trade scenario seem like a viable option if the draft doesn't work out for us at D.E.?

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Do we need to Draft a DE ?

I think so, but I do not see this as a position of Critical need, at

least not like Corner Back is.

A strong pass rush up the middle will make an average DE look good,

but not always the other way around.

Add in to the equation, Thomas Big Johnson and Trey Lewis, I would

focus on another DT that would place some insane pressure up the middle.

This forces the QB to the outside and at that point all you need is containment

for the Outside to prevent the QB from extending the play.

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Emphatically, NO! Let's not settle for mediocrity. As a 12-16th sack team isn't a proud status. Always

strive for the top 10, heck, go out on the and strive for top 5. We must improve our expectations.

Obviously you don't want to settle for mediocrity, that wasn't my point. I don't think the entire forum would be in panic-mode over our DE situation though if we had produced at an average level.

We have other needs that we really need to address. We have some good ends. We don't have two great corners. We don't have a TE to replace Gonzo. We don't have any WRs other than Roddy who are truly reliable. We don't have a center for the future. We don't have a scatback we can rely on cause Jerious is always hurt, We don't have a talent to mold behind Peterson... there are ALOT of things we don't have.

I don't think DE is something we need to get freaked out about and nab with the first pick. I would honestly take a WR in the first if there is a good talent worth the pick.

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Yes we need a DE. Busterson is on his way out the door. Brandon Graham has done nothing but impress me and Abe is getting old so I would say that yes we do. We can get a good DT in the 5th round. His name is Kade Weston and I think he's going to be a real sleeper. He had a great year and is a run stuffer. The guy is a brick wall and he's that mammoth DT we need with speed rushers like Babs and Jerry.

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Obviously you don't want to settle for mediocrity, that wasn't my point. I don't think the entire forum would be in panic-mode over our DE situation though if we had produced at an average level.

We have other needs that we really need to address. We have some good ends. We don't have two great corners. We don't have a TE to replace Gonzo. We don't have any WRs other than Roddy who are truly reliable. We don't have a center for the future. We don't have a scatback we can rely on cause Jerious is always hurt, We don't have a talent to mold behind Peterson... there are ALOT of things we don't have.

I don't think DE is something we need to get freaked out about and nab with the first pick. I would honestly take a WR in the first if there is a good talent worth the pick.

Good ends are OK but we must have Great corners, what about the opposite why not great ends and good corners?

There are currently 4 centers on the roster, McClure, Romberg, Bruggeman, Schlecter.

Agree they need a TE for the future but do they need him in 2010?

Antone Smith is a scatback

Adkins is already behind Peterson

So HD coming back does not count as an additional WR to help White??

Edited by delaigle
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Obviously you don't want to settle for mediocrity, that wasn't my point. I don't think the entire forum would be in panic-mode over our DE situation though if we had produced at an average level.

We have other needs that we really need to address. We have some good ends. We don't have two great corners. We don't have a TE to replace Gonzo. We don't have any WRs other than Roddy who are truly reliable. We don't have a center for the future. We don't have a scatback we can rely on cause Jerious is always hurt, We don't have a talent to mold behind Peterson... there are ALOT of things we don't have.

I don't think DE is something we need to get freaked out about and nab with the first pick. I would honestly take a WR in the first if there is a good talent worth the pick.

I've disagreed with someone as much as I disagree with you. In my opinion the worst thing the Falcons can

do is take a WR with the first pick. Yes we have Roddy, Jenkins isn't bad, and Douglas return would prove

to be the missing link from last year. A 4th or 5th round WR is sufficient. If the Falcons pass on a DE

in the first round, then choose a C, LT, or RT. In the 3rd round we can pick up a CB.

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I have said it before, a DE is our MAIN NEED....

we dont get a proven DE in here and we miss playoffs.... Die Hards like me will turn into lynch mobs ......

yes we need a DE, an ELITE DE

i am glad you guys have faith in what we have, but lets face it, most Elite DEs step up from game 1 of their pro careers ala J Kerse , M Williams ect....

Sid ,Beirmann, Davis

they are not near in the class of a J Peppers and never will be.....

ppl can say what they want, say pep is too much, say he takes plays off, but he is the missing piece of our D, so how much is a championship worth ??????

B Williams , C Owens , B Grimes , C Houston , C Jackson

they will be fine if they have the constant, relentless pressure from a D Line with Pep Babs Jerry and Abe .....

its not rocket science man....

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DE is a need, as are other positions. The importance of a strong pass rush can make any secondary better. Of course, if the secondary has a player who's head never turns, then it can be a moot point.

come on now , we want to love Chris Houston , he makes it very hard to tho lol

hes really the only guys back there who continues to struggle in this area....

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1. Despite what some believe, Biermann has not yet proven he can be consistent enough for us to lean one side of our line on. He has flashes, but we can't *bet* on him for the future (and I love Biermann.)

2. Sidbury is completely unproven. Showed some promise, but, again, we can't *bet* on him.

3. All signs point to JA98 continuing to be above average in run defense but far below average in pass rush. Yes, he's young but we should see some type of progression; we can't *bet* on him being 'the man' either.

4. Those first few bring me to my next point. We can't even bet on Abe anymore. He's either hit a wall or needs serious help on the other side of the line/in the middle to be productive. He's also getting old. If we can't bet on who we already have, then we really need to find someone for the upcoming years who can at least replace one DE position.

5. I love PJerry, but he played in 2 games. We can't be *SURE* that he'll be productive or that he'll stay healthy enought to aid our pass rush.

6. We were bottom tier in both sacks and pass yardage allowed. Everyone knows (and Smitty has said) it starts on the line.' When we get a rush, we cause mistakes and our *CB's obtain an advantage in coverage.*

7. Our other needs are (CB would help but see previous statement) CB, OLB, OT/G.

- CB is helped by pass rush, PLUS, young ones showed promise and made a good impression (as Smith said.) The change in secondary coach could say that 'we've got the talent--just need the mentorship'

- We have a recent pick in Adkins who has been highly touted by Smith. He has commented on his skillset and motivation recently. Has specifically said he has a chance to play LB in the future for the Falcons. ALSO, we have Peterson for (probably) one more year. Worst case scenario is that we have to spend a 1st-rounder next year at OLB to step in immediately.

- A good value pick at OT/G in the 1st will probably be gone before it's our pick (and OLB possibly as well.)

*I understand that a 'good' DE could be gone as well, and that trading down is possible and will totally change strategy. Also, we may even sign a DE in FA. Just giving the reasons why I feel it's apparent we need a DE. I would be fine with any pick in the 1st because I trust the FO, they know what they're working with more than I.

EDIT: I think it's understood that Babs is our most consistent DL and you must also consider the impact of losing his added pass rush could have on us for a decent chunk of the season if he is suspended. Just his temporary loss (of the pass rush he provides) could have a huge impact on us making the playoffs. DE help could be a counterweight for that.

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