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Saints lose mainly because of poor Oline play?


Big Bubba
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I've not seen Brees pressured like that in a while. It seemed like most of the Saints Oline didn't even come to play.

It's was more than our oline play.They also took advantage of Malcolm Jenkins, who will still be a great pick for us. He needs to work on his jam technique. Ever time he tries to jam the receiver he gets beat. Just needs to learn to move with his feet instead of his hips. All in all it was a **** of a game.

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IT AIN'T A BIG DEAL .... DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GO FROM

OPENING DAY TO THIS POINT, AND HAVE WON 13 STRAIGHT GAMES?? NOT

VERY MANY TEAMS HAVE ACCOMPLISHED THIS. IF ANYTHING, THIS LOSS

MAY HELP THE SAINTS TO LOOSEN UP, AND JUST PLAY THEIR GAME NOW.

GET PAST THE UNDEFEATED THING. I DON'T MAKE TOO MUCH OF THIS

LOSS BY THE SAINTS. BESIDES ... DALLAS WAS AS DESPERATE,

A TEAM AS ANY YOU'LL SEE. BUT GIVING CREDIT TO THE BOYS ....

THEY DID WHAT THEY HAD TO DO. :rolleyes:

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I was very suprised with the line. Even Evans got blew up a few times. They without a doubt, did not come to play. I'll say it now, that won't happen again. They got a old fashioned butt chewing after that game, I'm sure.

They seemed like they just wanted to coast through it. The loss did make the NFC a little more interesting though. If by some unholy act of god, the Saints lose to either the Bucs or the Panthers, and the Vikings win their last two games, both teams will be 14-2. Do you know who holds the tie-breakers?

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They seemed like they just wanted to coast through it. The loss did make the NFC a little more interesting though. If by some unholy act of god, the Saints lose to either the Bucs or the Panthers, and the Vikings win their last two games, both teams will be 14-2. Do you know who holds the tie-breakers?

I dunno if you are being rhetorical or not but the Vikes do because only one of their loss's was conference, the other loss they had was to the steelers.

That game takes a whole different tone if its in Minny rather then the superdome.

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I've not seen Brees pressured like that in a while. It seemed like most of the Saints Oline didn't even come to play.

True, their O-line didn't play Saint ball yesterday. But Drew had his worst game of the season and the receivers didn't help either, the TD drop by Henderson was huge. You could tell which team wanted it more. The Boyz just played with more urgency at every phase of the game.

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True, their O-line didn't play Saint ball yesterday. But Drew had his worst game of the season and the receivers didn't help either, the TD drop by Henderson was huge. You could tell which team wanted it more. The Boyz just played with more urgency at every phase of the game.

Cant argue with that. That devery drop was difficult to watch

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They seemed like they just wanted to coast through it. The loss did make the NFC a little more interesting though. If by some unholy act of god, the Saints lose to either the Bucs or the Panthers, and the Vikings win their last two games, both teams will be 14-2. Do you know who holds the tie-breakers?

Two Clubs

  1. Head-to-head, if applicable.
  2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
  3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
  4. Strength of victory.
  5. Strength of schedule.
  6. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
  7. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
  8. Best net points in conference games.
  9. Best net points in all games.
  10. Best net touchdowns in all games.
  11. Coin toss.

1- No

2- Right now the Saints would have the tiebreaker, but that could change after tonight.

3- Both are 100% in common games, but could change after tonight.

4- I suppose that's net points? If so, Saints have that.

So as you can see, right now the Saints would have the tiebreaker in a few of the categories. Tonights game is very important for the Vikes, obviously.

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People underestimate the impact of a FB/TE in pass blocking. Shockey didn't play so this clearly takes out the Cowboys' concern on a threat from that position in the passing game. This means they can blitz more.

On top of that, FB Heath Evans is on IR and the Saints' haven't found a replacement. They've been using backup TE Dave Thomas as the FB. Now with Shockey out, he was going back and forth at both spots. Either way, they rarely had more than one TE/FB on the field at the same time. Not only is it fewer blockers, but it's fewer formations the Saints could run... which made their offense a little more predictable.

Take away any teams' starting LT, TE, and FB, and they're guaranteed to struggle at protecting the QB. Not to mention Goodwin, the starting center, got hurt during the game and both guards have been limited in practice for a month with injuries.

Edited by bradael
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Two Clubs

  1. Head-to-head, if applicable.
  2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
  3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
  4. Strength of victory.
  5. Strength of schedule.
  6. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
  7. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
  8. Best net points in conference games.
  9. Best net points in all games.
  10. Best net touchdowns in all games.
  11. Coin toss.

1- No

2- Right now the Saints would have the tiebreaker, but that could change after tonight.

3- Both are 100% in common games, but could change after tonight.

4- I suppose that's net points? If so, Saints have that.

So as you can see, right now the Saints would have the tiebreaker in a few of the categories. Tonights game is very important for the Vikes, obviously.

:D Saints are pretty much a lock now. Grats guys.

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If the Saints ended up tied with the Vikes the Vikes would have the tiebreaker, since one of their losses was AFC (Pittsburgh).

I'm not looking past the Bucs even a little bit, but it would take some serious astrological alignment for us to lose out and the Vikes to win out. If we win Sunday we'll almost definitely rest our offensive starters in Carolina (returning defensive players will need reps).

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People underestimate the impact of a FB/TE in pass blocking. Shockey didn't play so this clearly takes out the Cowboys' concern on a threat from that position in the passing game. This means they can blitz more.

On top of that, FB Heath Evans is on IR and the Saints' haven't found a replacement. They've been using backup TE Dave Thomas as the FB. Now with Shockey out, he was going back and forth at both spots. Either way, they rarely had more than one TE/FB on the field at the same time. Not only is it fewer blockers, but it's fewer formations the Saints could run... which made their offense a little more predictable.

Take away any teams' starting LT, TE, and FB, and they're guaranteed to struggle at protecting the QB. Not to mention Goodwin, the starting center, got hurt during the game and both guards have been limited in practice for a month with injuries.

I agree with you that having the starters of those key positions out can make a big difference when it comes to protecting the qb. I just don't believe those few being out can justify how horrible the Saints Oline played. The starters that were playing on the line seemed to be day dreaming the entire game.

I dislike the Saints as much as any Panther fan but even I know their Oline is light years better than what they came out with against the Cowboys. Even without a few key starters. Until I see that kind of horrible protection on a regular basis, I'm going to assume it was just them not showing up for the game or being overzealous. If that makes sense.

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I agree with you that having the starters of those key positions out can make a big difference when it comes to protecting the qb. I just don't believe those few being out can justify how horrible the Saints Oline played. The starters that were playing on the line seemed to be day dreaming the entire game.

I dislike the Saints as much as any Panther fan but even I know their Oline is light years better than what they came out with against the Cowboys. Even without a few key starters. Until I see that kind of horrible protection on a regular basis, I'm going to assume it was just them not showing up for the game or being overzealous. If that makes sense.

First I do have to say that it's been said all year that the Saints' weakness among the OLine is the two tackles. Every team has attacked the tackles, especially in obvious passing downs. Carolina would line up their DTs over the tackles and the DEs a little further to the outside on passing downs.

The problem for defenses though is that the Saints have been very unpredictable most of the year. Attack the tackles and you leave the middle of the line vulnerable to the running game, where the Saints have maybe the best duo of guards in the league.

Clearly against Dallas though, the Saints were predictable. Trailing 24-3, of course it will be nearly all passes. Throw in the fact that they're down Shockey and Evans, this limits their formations. I think the misconception out there is that the Saints like to run a lot of 3 WR 1 TE sets. But that's the Colts, not the Saints. The Saints primarily run a lot of sets with 2 TEs, 1 TE 1 FB, 2 TEs 1 FB, and even sometimes 1 TE 1 FB with an extra OLineman.

TE Dave Thomas is the backup to Shockey, but he also was Heath Evans' backup because they hadn't found a legit replacement. Against the Cowboys they could barely run any of the above formations. The few plays TE Dinkins was on the field, he kept making mistakes.

Edited by bradael
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Well, Im back finally. Been having some internet issues and what not.

First things first

WHO DAT, WHO DAT, WHO DAT BEAT DEM SAINTS? :D

Now, I said in the scoring defense thread, "if the Cowboys allow their average points per game and the Saints allow theirs, Cowboys win".

Saints avg 23

Cowboys avg 17

Weird isnt it? Our D came out to play and the Saints had no answer. Also, didnt I say your D would have trouble with our offense? I do seem to remember saying that. Great win by the Cowboys, IN DECEMBER, ON THE ROAD!

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Well, Im back finally. Been having some internet issues and what not.

First things first

WHO DAT, WHO DAT, WHO DAT BEAT DEM SAINTS? :D

Now, I said in the scoring defense thread, "if the Cowboys allow their average points per game and the Saints allow theirs, Cowboys win".

Saints avg 23

Cowboys avg 17

Weird isnt it? Our D came out to play and the Saints had no answer. Also, didnt I say your D would have trouble with our offense? I do seem to remember saying that. Great win by the Cowboys, IN DECEMBER, ON THE ROAD!

I wouldn't get too high over this moment, it would only set you up for a let down. A +3 turnover margin along with a wide open dropped TD pass in the endzone led to just a 7 point last second win over a team down nearly half it's starters that had little to play for.

People can talk undefeated all they want as something to play for, but the conversation for about a month was that if the Saints put up a decent lead for HFA and got this far undefeated, the most important thing to do would be to sit players that aren't 100% to get them healthy for the playoffs. That's exactly what they did with guys like Sed Ellis and Shockey. I don't think the Panthers should get excited when they'll likely beat the Saints in week 17.

Do it in the playoffs and it will be impressive.

Edited by bradael
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There fixed, if Dallas has lost you know you wouldnt be feeling this way.

Congrats on a hard fought win, you guys played lights out and squeaked one out by 7. Your defensive line played amazingly.

Dont forget youve still lost 2 of your last three games though, its a little early to begin calling things fixed, you may not even make the playoffs. Its a great win, but lets try to have a little perspective here.

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I'm a moron.

Guess you didn't see what I've said for the past month. And you're over here making arguments as if that game is the season. Maybe it was for Dallas if they lost. Ware played less than a week after being carted off the field. Ellis and Shockey didn't play with minor injuries. That right there should tell you which team thought the game was more important.

If you really find that victory on Saturday as impressive you should keep watching the film. The only thing impressive about it at all is that it stopped a team from going undefeated. If these two teams meet again this year and even if they would have the same lineups, the Cowboys are in trouble.

The Saints' strength is throwing over the middle to TEs and dumpoffs to RBs. The Cowboys' weakness is covering TEs and RBs. Shockey didn't play and when I heard that I immediately said the Saints would struggle to move the ball. Then Bush got hurt in the first half on a reception.

Then you look at the defense. With Porter and Greer in there, teams are averaging under 55 passer rating. Without them, other than Tom Brady, everyone is close to 100+ passer rating. I'm sure you noticed Porter in there on a limited basis, and probably made you think that Romo should stop throwing at him. Greer expects to be back next week (guaranteed he won't play, it's not important). Both have been near shutdown corners this year. The rest of the corners stink. It's automatic completions against them. And without DT Ellis, most teams have racked up 150+ rushing yards per game. With him, I don't think a single team has a 100 yard rusher.

But then again, you are the one that thinks teams run close to 100 scrimmage plays a game when it's really much closer to 62.5, so it's really pointless to argue with you.

Edited by bradael
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