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After 26 NFL starts, how does Ryan compare to Vick?

10:30 am November 23, 2009, by Mark Bradley

The high point of Michael Vick's early days: The famous playoff victory at Lambeau Field.

Matt Ryan hasn’t had the sunniest of sophomore seasons. His team is 5-5. He threw 10 interceptions in a five-game span. His team has lost four of its past five. But with all the dissection we’ve done, here’s one thing we haven’t tried: We haven’t yet compared/contrasted the Falcons’ newest franchise quarterback with their previous franchise quarterback. Here goes:

• After 26 regular-season starts, Ryan is 16-10. After 26 regular-season starts, Michael Vick was 16-9-1. (Note: Owing to his apprenticeship behind Chris Chandler in 2001 and his broken leg in 2003, Vick needed four seasons to make 26 starts.)

• Ryan’s passer rating in his second season as a pro is 80.0. Vick’s passer rating in his second season as a pro was 81.6. Ryan’s career passer rating is 84.3. Vick’s career passer rating is 75.6.

• Ryan’s completion percentage in his second NFL season is 59.3. Vick’s completion percentage in his second NFL season was 54.9. Ryan’s career completion percentage is 60.3. Vick’s career completion percentage is 53.7.

• Ryan has thrown 12 interceptions through 10 games of his second NFL season. Vick threw eight in his second NFL season. Ryan has thrown 16 touchdown passes in those same 10 games. Vick threw 16 touchdown passes in 15 games in his second NFL season.

• Ryan has fumbled three times in his second NFL season, his team losing two. Vick fumbled nine times in his second NFL season, his team losing six.

• Ryan has accounted for 2,324 yards (passing and rushing) through 10 games of his second NFL season — an average of 232.4 yards per game. Vick accounted for 3,713 yards in his second NFL season — an average of 247.5 per game.

• Ryan’s team lost his first playoff start, which came in Phoenix in his first NFL season. Vick’s team won his first playoff start, which came in Green Bay in his second NFL season.

Even though the styles were dissimilar, there’s not a lot of difference between the raw numbers at this point in the two careers. But it’s worth noting that we’re rating Ryan at a personal low — though he did have a big second half in Giants Stadium on Sunday — and Vick after 26 NFL starts was among the most feared players in the league.

That 26th start came in Week 5 of the 2004 regular season. The Falcons would finish 11-5 and beat the Rams in a playoff game and reach the NFC title game. But that was the end of Vick as a winning quarterback. He was 15-15 over his final 30 games as a Falcon, and his last NFL start came Dec. 31, 2006. This year he has accounted for 67 yards, more than half of them coming on one run against the Bears on Sunday night.

We can compare/contrast Ryan to Vick as young players, and you can make the case that Vick was slightly better. (Though not as a rookie; he started only two games in 2001.) But we cannot compare the Ryan of 2009 to the Vick of 2009 because there’s no comparison. One is the starting quarterback. The other is a backup.

Note: I’m posting this now, but I’m not opening it for comments just yet. I’m flying back from Newark, and I know from the hour I spent over dinner with D. Orlando Ledbetter last night how quickly matters can deteriorate on here. So I want to be able to monitor the comments. If you’d like to leave one, check back early in the afternoon. In the interim, feel free to vote in our poll.

In-flight update: Delta flight 2011 has wireless available — a free trial! — and I will open this for commenting. Since I’m at 30,000 feet, I’ve got nowhere to go. But let’s keep it clean, shall we?

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Alot of it is apples and oranges. There are too many variables to really match them up head to head. One thing I do know is, this recent mini-slump he had notwithstanding, when Ryan drops back and releases the ball, I am surprised when it isn't completed. With Vick, I was always surprised when he completed a pass. Take it for what it's worth.

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Wondered how long it would take before someone posted this. Did you see the poll that went along with it???

After 26 games, the better QB is/was:

Matt Ryan. (60%, 386 Votes)

Michael Vick. (40%, 253 Votes)

Total Voters: 639

Just sayin

yea i seen it. for some reason the poll wouldnt copy and paste along with the whole article. those numbers are really surprising not because of how many voted for ryan, but how many voted for vick..

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Wondered how long it would take before someone posted this. Did you see the poll that went along with it???

After 26 games, the better QB is/was:

Matt Ryan. (60%, 386 Votes)

Michael Vick. (40%, 253 Votes)

Total Voters: 639

Just sayin

Every vote had a personal stake in it. Whether you voted for Ryan or Vick. One thing I can add here is Vick did follow up his First play off appearance with another one. ( In 2003 he was injured for 75% of the season).

Ryan has yet to win a playoff game. He still has a chance this year but it's going to be kind of difficult.

Just stating the facts on what matters in this leauge. Winning IN the playoffs and the last game you play.

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I loved Vick as much as I love Ryan, but it's pretty difficult to compare them. Vick was a Scrambler/RB first passer second and Ryan is the complete opposite, although for the most part he chooses not to run. Vick's main target when he decided to throw was to TE Alge Crumpler he rarely used his WR's. Ryan, in his first season, used his WR's most of the time, rarely throwing to his TE's. Ryan has better touch and accuracy. Vick had a cannon for a arm and he could improvise with his feet, dam he was fast!!! These are two totally different QB with two totally different playing styles. In my book Ryan is no better than Vick and Vick was no better than Ryan.

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Alot of it is apples and oranges. There are too many variables to really match them up head to head. One thing I do know is, this recent mini-slump he had notwithstanding, when Ryan drops back and releases the ball, I am surprised when it isn't completed. With Vick, I was always surprised when he completed a pass. Take it for what it's worth.

not worth much ...

back then, I was surprised when Roddy white and Jenkins caught a ball when vick threw it.

Vick's problem were the fumbles to me

today, i'm surprised with White drops a ball, but still surprised when Jenkins catches a ball.

Alge Crumpler isn't doing to much in Tenn ... but he played on the same level here as Tony G is now.

60% of the offensive line has been replaced since Vick ...

And the offense is 200% less predictable.

All in all, I'm happy with what we have now in Ryan, but I refuse to not see the complete picture when comparing the two. Jenkins still sucks. period. He dropped a TD against the Giants in 06 and he's doing the same in 09

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After 26 NFL starts, how does Ryan compare to Vick?

10:30 am November 23, 2009, by Mark Bradley

The high point of Michael Vick's early days: The famous playoff victory at Lambeau Field.

Matt Ryan hasnt had the sunniest of sophomore seasons. His team is 5-5. He threw 10 interceptions in a five-game span. His team has lost four of its past five. But with all the dissection weve done, heres one thing we havent tried: We havent yet compared/contrasted the Falcons newest franchise quarterback with their previous franchise quarterback. Here goes:

After 26 regular-season starts, Ryan is 16-10. After 26 regular-season starts, Michael Vick was 16-9-1. (Note: Owing to his apprenticeship behind Chris Chandler in 2001 and his broken leg in 2003, Vick needed four seasons to make 26 starts.)

Ryans passer rating in his second season as a pro is 80.0. Vicks passer rating in his second season as a pro was 81.6. Ryans career passer rating is 84.3. Vicks career passer rating is 75.6.

Ryans completion percentage in his second NFL season is 59.3. Vicks completion percentage in his second NFL season was 54.9. Ryans career completion percentage is 60.3. Vicks career completion percentage is 53.7.

Ryan has thrown 12 interceptions through 10 games of his second NFL season. Vick threw eight in his second NFL season. Ryan has thrown 16 touchdown passes in those same 10 games. Vick threw 16 touchdown passes in 15 games in his second NFL season.

Ryan has fumbled three times in his second NFL season, his team losing two. Vick fumbled nine times in his second NFL season, his team losing six.

Ryan has accounted for 2,324 yards (passing and rushing) through 10 games of his second NFL season an average of 232.4 yards per game. Vick accounted for 3,713 yards in his second NFL season an average of 247.5 per game.

Ryans team lost his first playoff start, which came in Phoenix in his first NFL season. Vicks team won his first playoff start, which came in Green Bay in his second NFL season.

Even though the styles were dissimilar, theres not a lot of difference between the raw numbers at this point in the two careers. But its worth noting that were rating Ryan at a personal low though he did have a big second half in Giants Stadium on Sunday and Vick after 26 NFL starts was among the most feared players in the league.

That 26th start came in Week 5 of the 2004 regular season. The Falcons would finish 11-5 and beat the Rams in a playoff game and reach the NFC title game. But that was the end of Vick as a winning quarterback. He was 15-15 over his final 30 games as a Falcon, and his last NFL start came Dec. 31, 2006. This year he has accounted for 67 yards, more than half of them coming on one run against the Bears on Sunday night.

We can compare/contrast Ryan to Vick as young players, and you can make the case that Vick was slightly better. (Though not as a rookie; he started only two games in 2001.) But we cannot compare the Ryan of 2009 to the Vick of 2009 because theres no comparison. One is the starting quarterback. The other is a backup.

Note: Im posting this now, but Im not opening it for comments just yet. Im flying back from Newark, and I know from the hour I spent over dinner with D. Orlando Ledbetter last night how quickly matters can deteriorate on here. So I want to be able to monitor the comments. If youd like to leave one, check back early in the afternoon. In the interim, feel free to vote in our poll.

In-flight update: Delta flight 2011 has wireless available a free trial! and I will open this for commenting. Since Im at 30,000 feet, Ive got nowhere to go. But lets keep it clean, shall we?

I happened to have been crazy about Vick. Like with Ryan - I've always kept a spreadsheet of their progress. If he's going to judge him on 26 starts - then he needs to use 26 STARTS.

Some of these numbers should be:

Vick 16-9-1 vs. Ryan 16-10

Vick 5390 total yards vs. Ryan 5700 total yards

Vick passer rating after 26 games = 77.1 vs. Ryan after 26 games = 84.3

Vick 23+9=32 TD's and 15 Int passing vs. Ryan 32+2=34 TD's and 23 Int

Vick 9 TD's rushing vs. Ryan 2 TD's Rushing

Vick 24 Fumbles and lost 14 vs. Ryan 9 Fumbles and lost 3

Good or bad - these are the true numbers after 26 STARTS in the NFL

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Every vote had a personal stake in it. Whether you voted for Ryan or Vick. One thing I can add here is Vick did follow up his First play off appearance with another one. ( In 2003 he was injured for 75% of the season).

Ryan has yet to win a playoff game. He still has a chance this year but it's going to be kind of difficult.

Just stating the facts on what matters in this leauge. Winning IN the playoffs and the last game you play.

Vick didn't get to his first playoff game his rookie year either. He only started 2 games that year.

The only thing that matters in this league is WINNING the Superbowl - something no quarterback has ever done with our team yet.

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I happened to have been crazy about Vick. Like with Ryan - I've always kept a spreadsheet of their progress. If he's going to judge him on 26 starts - then he needs to use 26 STARTS.

Some of these numbers should be:

Vick 16-9-1 vs. Ryan 16-10

Vick 5390 total yards vs. Ryan 5700 total yards

Vick passer rating after 26 games = 77.1 vs. Ryan after 26 games = 84.3

Vick 23+9=32 TD's and 15 Int passing vs. Ryan 32+2=34 TD's and 12 Int

Vick 9 TD's rushing vs. Ryan 2 TD's Rushing

Vick 24 Fumbles and lost 14 vs. Ryan 9 Fumbles and lost 3

Good or bad - these are the true numbers after 26 STARTS in the NFL

Should be 23 INT's for Ryan thus far, and 17 for Vick right?

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Should be 23 INT's for Ryan thus far, and 17 for Vick right?

No - 23 for Ryan and 15 for Vick. Based on his first 26 Starts.

1 his first year - 8 his second year - 3 the third year and 3 the fourth year (up to game 26 as a starter)

Took him 4 years to get to 26 games - but he wasn't bad with interceptions at first.

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No - 23 for Ryan and 15 for Vick. Based on his first 26 Starts.

1 his first year - 8 his second year - 3 the third year and 3 the fourth year (up to game 26 as a starter)

Took him 4 years to get to 26 games - but he wasn't bad with interceptions at first.

Gotcha. No with Vick, it was the combination of interceptions and fumbles imo.

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Of course one of them lied to the commissioner and team owner and spent 2 years in a federal prison and flipped off the fans when he was losing.

During that same 2 years the other graduated college and set tons of records as a first time NFL QB.

In four years if Ryan hasn't vastly improved over Vick's four years then we can all eat it, but I doubt that will happen.

Edited by Jesus
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Of course one of them lied to the commissioner and team owner and spent 2 years in a federal prison and flipped off the fans when he was losing.

During that same 2 years the other graduated college and set tons of records as a first time NFL QB.

In four years if Ryan hasn't vastly improved over Vick's four years then we can all eat it, but I doubt that will happen.

This

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I happened to have been crazy about Vick. Like with Ryan - I've always kept a spreadsheet of their progress. If he's going to judge him on 26 starts - then he needs to use 26 STARTS.

.......................

Good or bad - these are the true numbers after 26 STARTS in the NFL

Tandy, I'm trying to wade through all this to get an accurate picture. In the original article, when referring to Vick's second season as a pro, does the author mean his second season as the starter for all 16 games or literally his second season?

Edited by BCEaGleATLFaLcOn
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Vick Stats

2001 played 8 games started 2 Rookie 784 yards 44% 2tds 3ints 31att-289yds 1td

2002 played 15 started 15 2936 54.9% 16 8 113-777-8td

2003 played 5 started 4 injured 585 50% 4 3 40-255-1

2004 played 15 started 15 2313 56.4% 14 12 120-902-3

He played great in 2002 but started regressing in the "west coast" offense.

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Tandy, I'm trying to wade through all this to get an accurate picture. In the original article, when referring to Vick's second season as a pro, does the author mean his second season as the starter for all 16 games or literally his second season?

He only started all 16 games one year for us - and that was his 6th year with us - even then - he left early in the last game.

He started 2 games his first year, 15 games his second year, 4 games his 3rd year which comes to 21. So I took the first 5 games he started his 4th year along with those first 21 starts and came up with my stats.

I'm not sure where Bradley got his - he was jumping all over the place - first he was talking about 26 starts - then 2nd year - then best year vs.

Who knows - he's always trying to stir up controversy - it's his thing. If he can keep the City of Atlanta at each others throats - nobody notices how bad he is.

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The main difference is Matt Ryan is a real QB, Vick was a glorified RB who thinks he's a QB "Vick admitted he

did'nt study very hard , Ryan studies hard and is trying to improve in every facet of the game, Ryan can read

a defense and make adjustments when necessary "Vick was incapable of doing such because lets face it "he's just not that intelligent. Ryan is a team leader and a stand-up decent young man, Vick is a convicted criminal, never

was a team leader. Vick could never quite grasp the idea of learning the fundementals such as "footwork" and trying to understand the concept of a quick release. Matt Ryan is in the truiest sense a "Franchise QB" Vick was

simply a poser and a"Franchise killer".......plain and simple.

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He only started all 16 games one year for us - and that was his 6th year with us - even then - he left early in the last game.

He started 2 games his first year, 15 games his second year, 4 games his 3rd year which comes to 21. So I took the first 5 games he started his 4th year along with those first 21 starts and came up with my stats.

I'm not sure where Bradley got his - he was jumping all over the place - first he was talking about 26 starts - then 2nd year - then best year vs.

Who knows - he's always trying to stir up controversy - it's his thing. If he can keep the City of Atlanta at each others throats - nobody notices how bad he is.

Thanks. I completely understand your stats now ... still having trouble deciphering Bradley's. Then again, as you said, Bradley's aren't exactly made for easy, consistent reading ...

C'est la vie. wacko.gif

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