How would you grade Matt against two other 2nd yr starters?

[GoodnightATL]

Let's be honest... we all fancy ourselves as a bit of a GM. Got me to thinking how we would all rate QBs if given that responsibility. I'm going to break it down into 10 different well known scouting criteria for QBs...Going to release two-a-day (don't want to flood the boards with them all in one day)lol. This one is accuracy (already done arm strength on a separate thread)...

Accuracy - Arm strength is great, but if the ball doesn't end up in a spot where the receiver has a legitimate chance of pulling it in, it won't matter how hard or far it's thrown. Watch where the QB puts the ball. Do his receivers constantly have to go down to the ground or leap in the air to pull in his passes? How well does he lead the receivers? Do they catch the ball in stride or do they have to wait for the ball to get to them?

On swing patterns, is the QB throwing the ball over the proper shoulder of the running back or does he have to turn to catch the ball? These are all key indicators of a quarterback's accuracy.

PS. Some scouting website definition!

[Matt Ryan = Trent Edwards]

Matt Ryan isn't even in Aaron Rodgers league. Do you know what Rodgers could do with an oline!?!!

[GoodnightATL]

Matt Ryan isn't even in Aaron Rodgers league. Do you know what Rodgers could do with an oline!?!!

U again!!! I'm going to shock you and sort of agree! Rodgers is a very special player currently playing at a higher level then Ryan is at the moment... I am of the belief however that these two will be playing against each other in a lot of NFC championship games over the nxt 10-15 yrs... go ahead mock me!

Do u not think that at least 1/3 of those sacks are attributed to Rodgers holding on to the ball too long???

[MattIceRyanMVP2]

Ryan - Good

Flacco - Good

Rodgers - Excellent

[Tandy]

Rodgers is in his 5th year. Although Brett Favre was the starter there in the previous 3 years - he did play some and has stats even. Being in your 5th year of the NFL after playing and practicing and studying film with Favre for the previous 3 years.

You think that's a good comparison?

Flacco and Ryan are going through a true Sophomore year - not Rodgers.

Looking at the record though - Ryan and Flacco have him beat in knowing how to get the win.

Ryan and Flacco are both 16-9 as starters in the regular season and have both led their team to the playoffs

Rodgers is 12-13 as a starter.

All 3 are poised to have a chance to go to the playoffs this year with identical records.

[JC Falcon]

Tandy is right. Why not compare Ryan and Flacco to Matt Leinart and Vince Young and Fatboy Russell and Brady Quinn? I think they only have 2 years of starting experience and they are all trainwrecks.

[LVfalconfan]

Should of put Henne. He is a 2nd year player from college.

[GoodnightATL]

Rodgers is in his 5th year. Although Brett Favre was the starter there in the previous 3 years - he did play some and has stats even. Being in your 5th year of the NFL after playing and practicing and studying film with Favre for the previous 3 years.

You think that's a good comparison?

Flacco and Ryan are going through a true Sophomore year - not Rodgers.

Looking at the record though - Ryan and Flacco have him beat in knowing how to get the win.

Ryan and Flacco are both 16-9 as starters in the regular season and have both led their team to the playoffs

Rodgers is 12-13 as a starter.

All 3 are poised to have a chance to go to the playoffs this year with identical records.

I know he's been in the league longer but we all know the sitting and playing are two very different things... all started the same amount of games, all 25 or under, all franchise type guys but all still not the finished product. Considered others like cutler(4th season), Cassel (too old), Young/Russell (not considered close to other in terms of passing), Edwards (3rd season starting+injuries etc). Open to suggestions...

[GoodnightATL]

Tandy is right. Why not compare Ryan and Flacco to Matt Leinart and Vince Young and Fatboy Russell and Brady Quinn? I think they only have 2 years of starting experience and they are all trainwrecks.

Because I don't feel the need to put in 'trainwrecks' just to prove Ryan is better than them... I wanted to see where you guys think he is compared with the best young talent...

Rodgers has exactly the same starting experience as Ryan and Flacco...

[Big Bubba]

Matt Ryan isn't even in Aaron Rodgers league. Do you know what Rodgers could do with an oline!?!!

I'd hate to imagine what Rodgers would do with a solid Oline.

Year 1: It would've been 1.Rodgers 2.Ryan 3.Flacco

Now, Imo, It's 1.Rodgers, 2.Flacco, 3.Ryan.

Interesting to see what we see next year.

Edited November 18, 2009 by 08NFCSChamps

[WCFalcon]

Flacco and Matt are in the same range. Rodgers is doing really well.

[Tandy]

I know he's been in the league longer but we all know the sitting and playing are two very different things... all started the same amount of games, all 25 or under, all franchise type guys but all still not the finished product. Considered others like cutler(4th season), Cassel (too old), Young/Russell (not considered close to other in terms of passing), Edwards (3rd season starting+injuries etc). Open to suggestions...

The point is - while not starting - he did play in games in those previous seasons - and he was in the NFL - much different than coming from College. He's very talented but at this point in his career - you can't say he's a winner - he has a losing record, unlike Flacco and Ryan.

There is some other great talent out there just starting out - like Kolb and Henne who maybe should be looked at. I just think Rodgers is too old and has been around too long to be compared to those two babies.

[GoodnightATL]

There is some other great talent out there just starting out - like Kolb and Henne who maybe should be looked at. I just think Rodgers is too old and has been around too long to be compared to those two babies.

I think it would be quite hard to evaluate a players skill set in the NFL based on

what amounts to 8 starts between the two of them... that would be really unfair! Also

age is not the same as experience. Rodgers has the same if not less experience then

Ryan and Flacco who have both played in the postseason. I think you'll be pleasently

surprised when we get into different aspects of their games as to where in

particular Matt stacks up. For example timing/anticipation where I think he is better

then both these QBs on the list. I know what the stats say about each QB... But I want

to know what you guys see when you just watch them play...

[Tandy]

I think it would be quite hard to evaluate a players skill set in the NFL based on

what amounts to 8 starts between the two of them... that would be really unfair! Also

age is not the same as experience. Rodgers has the same if not less experience then

Ryan and Flacco who have both played in the postseason. I think you'll be pleasently

surprised when we get into different aspects of their games as to where in

particular Matt stacks up. For example timing/anticipation where I think he is better

then both these QBs on the list. I know what the stats say about each QB... But I want

to know what you guys see when you just watch them play...

I'm not really concerned where he stacks up - he's our quarterback and will be for the long haul. That wasn't the reason I mentioned Rodgers not really fitting into the picture.

I just don't think he fits the same mold as those two guys thrown out into the mix from their rookie year. It's a whole different mindset for those guys. Next year - watching a couple of other youthful guys - like Stafford, Sanchez and maybe Henne and Kolbe - we'll get an idea of just how well Flacco and Ryan have performed.

Both of them are pretty special. Both had to take a franchise on their shoulders in their rookie year - like it or not. Ryan won the job and Flacco was forced into it due to injuries. They both performed amazingly for rookies and got to the playoffs. Flacco went further in the playoffs. Both have a winning record this year and both have really good records for a second year QB - even though most people expected even more from them.

I have to say - they have set the bar pretty high for rookie QB's and I feel a little for Sanchez and Stafford having to follow in their footsteps.

I would say Rodgers fits more into the frame of Cassel and Romo - guys who learned for a few years before facing the fire, but who are still very young as starters.

Anyway - it's your poll - I didn't mean to come in and bust up your thread - just making a suggestion.

[GoodnightATL]

Anyway - it's your poll - I didn't mean to come in and bust up your thread - just making a suggestion.

Hey you're a old timer on these threads and I'm a newbie! Appreciate the input! However I wanted ppls views on their skill set from a scouting point of view... nothing to do with performance etc.

Besides Rodgers and Ryan will be playing a lot of postseason football against each other for the next decade... I'm sure that is something we can both agree will be similar lol

[Tandy]

Hey you're a old timer on these threads and I'm a newbie! Appreciate the input! However I wanted ppls views on their skill set from a scouting point of view... nothing to do with performance etc.

Besides Rodgers and Ryan will be playing a lot of postseason football against each other for the next decade... I'm sure that is something we can both agree will be similar lol

That I can agree with.

[GoodnightATL]

Putting Rodgers in this discussion makes absolutely no sense. He held a clipboard for 3 seasons and was able to learn from one of the best QB's to ever play the game. Through practice, studying, and playing 2nd fiddle Rodgers was able to gain invaluable experience without having to set foot on a field. He was able to adjust to the speed of the NFL game as compared to college. To even try to compare a guy like Rodgers to Flacco and Ryan, and vice versa again shows another member on here with a complete lack of football knowledge and basic understanding of the game.

You even trying to defend it is embarrassing to say the least.

I'm not comparing them... I want to know what you guys think of there different SKILL SETS. For example not all

of college football is the same level of competition... Correct??? But scouts still need to analyze the

different players with what they see with their EYES! NOT all about numbers they need to look deeper!

I know there has been a lot of negativity on these boards of late but for Christs sake get your facts straight

before attacking people! Respond like a normal human being if you like...

Edited November 19, 2009 by R13jd

[Jacob]

Matt Ryan isn't even in Aaron Rodgers league. Do you know what Rodgers could do with an oline!?!!

Rodgers has been in the league 2 to 3 years longer then Ryan too.

[GoodnightATL]

Putting Rodgers in this discussion makes absolutely no sense. He held a clipboard for 3 seasons and was able to learn from one of the best QB's to ever play the game. Through practice, studying, and playing 2nd fiddle Rodgers was able to gain invaluable experience without having to set foot on a field. He was able to adjust to the speed of the NFL game as compared to college. To even try to compare a guy like Rodgers to Flacco and Ryan, and vice versa again shows another member on here with a complete lack of football knowledge and basic understanding of the game.

You even trying to defend it is embarrassing to say the least.

And how does a player adjust to the speed of the NFL by holding a clipboard and not playing! No doubt he learned a lot from Farve but this would be in terms of routine, work habits, film study. How many reps in practice do you even think he was getting while no.4 was under center. What I suppose you think by playing MADDEN you know how to run an NFL offense??? Do me a favour

Edited November 19, 2009 by R13jd

[Tandy]

And how does a player adjust to the speed of the NFL by holding a clipboard and not playing! No doubt he learned a lot from Farve but this would be in terms of routine, work habits, film study. How many reps in practice do you even think he was getting while no.4 was under center. What I suppose you think by playing MADDEN you know how to run an NFL offense??? Do me a favour

He did get a little playing time - not a lot - especially with Favre under center - but he did play in about 2 games a year - plus all the preseason games for those 3 years.

While that's not the start that Ryan or Flacco had - it certainly helped him see some looks and get adjusted to the game speed more than college prepared those two.

Aaron has said on several occasions that he learned a lot from Brett - most markedly - he learned how to look off safeties - how to read the defense and how to control the field with your eyes and that it has benefitted him greatly.

[gazoo]

I think we should compare Ryan's second year stats to oe Montana's stats in his Super Bowl years.

Clearly, if we do this, it proves Matt Ryan is a subpar performer.

Another valid comparison would be to compare Ryan's stats to Dan Marino's in the perfect season.

No question, these logical excercises in comparisons can show us the true picture of what we are dealing with.