There's something wrong with our snap count

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

Ever since the Arizona game something been bothering me. That game, as has been well documented on this board, it seemed like Arizona was offsides nearly every play and even more so on passing downs. Missed calls are part of the game so I generally don't complain about it too much but that was different....because there were a host of plays where they WEREN'T offsides but they got an excellent jump off the ball and were able to pressure Matty into making poor decisions.

Fast forward half a season and I fear the problem is creeping back up again. Darnell Dockett (i think) was quoted as saying they had figured out our snap count and knew how we were going to call it. They took advantage of that and were able to win the game. But these last two weeks especially I'm seeing the same type of behavior. DL are getting off the ball supernaturally fast...and its not every play but its at least once a series. This has led to an increase in holding penalties, pressure on Matt, and a general decrease in OL performance.

Am I imagining this? Are you guys not saying "Offsides!" more frequently? I'll say this...I watch a ton of football. I rarely get Falcons games here in Illinois so I watch a lot of Bears, Packers, Vikings, Rams and other assorted teams. I dont see this happen nearly as much as when I watch Falcons games at a bar. It happens to us at a much higher rate which tells me that teams are studying the Arizona tape (and now the Dallas/NO) tapes and actually getting a cadence down.

So what are we going to do? Does Mularkey have the smarts to actually change the thing? I followed him in Buffalo and my feelings on him are pretty cynical. Is this Matt's doing? Does he need to exert more control over the snap count? Do we use the hard count enough or even a fast count?

The fact is in order to make the leap to an elite team we have to be able to handle quality defensive lines and give our QB enough time to throw the ball. I think this may be the single biggest reason for what appears to be increased pressure this year.

Thoughts?

[ConnFalcon]

Hmmm... Interesting thought. It was Darnell Dockett that had mentioned he figured out our snap count. I haven't noticed a trend, but I am going to pay close attention to this now that you mentioned it.

[Bring It]

You may have DISCOVERED something here.

Something important.

The real question is : Does the TEAM realize this ??

Thanks.

[texasbirdfan]

Ever since the Arizona game something been bothering me. That game, as has been well documented on this board, it seemed like Arizona was offsides nearly every play and even more so on passing downs. Missed calls are part of the game so I generally don't complain about it too much but that was different....because there were a host of plays where they WEREN'T offsides but they got an excellent jump off the ball and were able to pressure Matty into making poor decisions.

Fast forward half a season and I fear the problem is creeping back up again. Darnell Dockett (i think) was quoted as saying they had figured out our snap count and knew how we were going to call it. They took advantage of that and were able to win the game. But these last two weeks especially I'm seeing the same type of behavior. DL are getting off the ball supernaturally fast...and its not every play but its at least once a series. This has led to an increase in holding penalties, pressure on Matt, and a general decrease in OL performance.

Am I imagining this? Are you guys not saying "Offsides!" more frequently? I'll say this...I watch a ton of football. I rarely get Falcons games here in Illinois so I watch a lot of Bears, Packers, Vikings, Rams and other assorted teams. I dont see this happen nearly as much as when I watch Falcons games at a bar. It happens to us at a much higher rate which tells me that teams are studying the Arizona tape (and now the Dallas/NO) tapes and actually getting a cadence down.

So what are we going to do? Does Mularkey have the smarts to actually change the thing? I followed him in Buffalo and my feelings on him are pretty cynical. Is this Matt's doing? Does he need to exert more control over the snap count? Do we use the hard count enough or even a fast count?

The fact is in order to make the leap to an elite team we have to be able to handle quality defensive lines and give our QB enough time to throw the ball. I think this may be the single biggest reason for what appears to be increased pressure this year.

Thoughts?

Bingo. I noticed it also. John Grueden used to be a master for years of figuring out opponents snap counts and steal plays by noticing the little things. You would think one of the 20 coaches GM or Artie would/ could say or do something about it. A major clue for the OC is when a team goes offsides more than once in a game. I think it is a HUGE edge and the problem needs to be addressed. We are telegraphing our plays or counts to the opposition again.

.

[ConnFalcon]

Bingo. I noticed it also. John Grueden used to be a master for years of figuring out opponents snap counts and steal plays by noticing the little things. You would think one of the 20 coaches GM or Artie would/ could say or do something about it. A major clue for the OC is when a team goes offsides more than once in a game. I think it is a HUGE edge and the problem needs to be addressed. We are telegraphing our plays or counts to the opposition again.

.

Not making excuses, but that was a big reason why we lost to AZ last year. They had pressure on Ryan alllllll day.

[texasbirdfan]

Not making excuses, but that was a big reason why we lost to AZ last year. They had pressure on Ryan alllllll day.

Exhibit A in the NFL was the Super Bowl between Tampa and Oakland. Grueden was one year removed from his offense of the Raiders and knew every thing that was coming. The Bucs slaughtered the Raiders by knowing what was coming or the count

[freakyfalcon]

We need to instill a hard count for Ryan so he can get the DL to jump offsides. I havent seen him do that at all this season.

[texasbirdfan]

We need to instill a hard count for Ryan so he can get the DL to jump offsides. I havent seen him do that at all this season.

Teams ARE jumping offsides on us now- not by our trickery but by our non-foolery

,

[superbowl 20??]

the snap count i THINK is a QBs possession i think Ryan needs to improve it. The first Favre game the announcers were talking about how Favre has been using his complex snap count since the Packer glory days and still uses the same/tweaked with the vikes

Edited November 5, 2009 by superbowl 20??

[texasbirdfan]

Note to crowd Sunday: Everybody bring a sign or banner to the game telling the coaches to do something.

Probably the only way to get through to them.....

[chucktown birdfan]

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner! This was discussed in depth among my fellow Falcons friends after the NO game. Don't know whether we are going on the same count every time or if something or someone is telegraphing the snap count but it sure needs to be fixed!

[SatJackSA_ATLFAN]

Im sure Mike Mularky will read your post later when he surfs the AFMB for his gameplan against the skins^_^

[texasbirdfan]

Im sure Mike Mularky will read your post later when he surfs the AFMB for his gameplan against the skins^_^

thanks for the sarcasm

[freakyfalcon]

Teams ARE jumping offsides on us now- not by our trickery but by our non-foolery

,

I know they are jumping offside now because Ryan doesnt hard count at all. He just does his normal count. Chandler was a master of the hard count when he was here.

[raysnill1]

I'm more disturbed that Vilma was able to come from his MLB spot and take Roddy out AND the DB jumped the route. time to mix up the plays a lot. but yeah I noticed DEs getting the jump on the snap quite a few times

[maxatlanta]

It's not Ryan's snap count. It's happening when we are on the road and using a silent snap count. McClure motions with his head to start the snap count and the defense has an opportunity to do their own count in their head and jump the snap. Rod Coleman and Grady Jackson were great at this. But it's done by the home team against the visitor. However, we do need to adjust and improve so defenses can't do this to us.

[falcons4life]

It's not Ryan's snap count. It's happening when we are on the road and using a silent snap count. McClure motions with his head to start the snap count and the defense has an opportunity to do their own count in their head and jump the snap. Rod Coleman and Grady Jackson were great at this. But it's done by the home team against the visitor. However, we do need to adjust and improve so defenses can't do this to us.

Bing!! We have a winner!

This is absolutely correct. The silent count at away games (Zona, NO) is what is killing us.

[BenB321]

Great thread. I raised heck about this after the Cards game but it seemed that most people did not think it was a big deal. Maybe that is because we have a number of weakminded morons on this boards. Anyway it is totally unaceptable to have something like this hurt our team. The freakin AJC never said anything about it after the playoff loss to the Cards. This is a pretty freakin easy fix and there is absolutely no excuse for our coaching staff not to prevent it. This really pisses me off.

[texasbirdfan]

Great thread. I raised heck about this after the Cards game but it seemed that most people did not think it was a big deal. Maybe that is because we have a number of weakminded morons on this boards. Anyway it is totally unaceptable to have something like this hurt our team. The freakin AJC never said anything about it after the playoff loss to the Cards. This is a pretty freakin easy fix and there is absolutely no excuse for our coaching staff not to prevent it. This really pisses me off.

Like I said earlier. Bring banners to the game- otherwise who knows?

[BenB321]

Like I said earlier. Bring banners to the game- otherwise who knows?

You would think somebody in the press would grill the Falcons coaching staff on something as critical as the snap count. But nothing, nada. I like Coach Smith but there is no excuse for letting Arizona figure out our snap count. I knew something was wrong watching the game on TV how could Ryan and the coaching staff on the sidelines and in the box not figure it freaking out. If we are still screwing this up it is absolutely unacepptable but you're right it doesn't seem like the press is going to bring it up.

What about J Mike can anybody get in contact with him so maybe he can get an answer for us? I really would love to hear an explanation because I've been watching NFL football a long time and I've never seen another team own the snap count like the Cards did last year. So far this year I haven't noticed but I will keep an eye on it now.

[Falcon Heene]

Matt Ryan never changed snap count in AZ

[boxxy]

Sorry to ruin this thread and all..

but could someone explain the differences between a hard count and silent count? -_-

[Falcon Heene]

Sorry to ruin this thread and all..

but could someone explain the differences between a hard count and silent count? -_-

My link

"A hard count is when a quarterback expects a blitz and changes the tone of his voice," he said. "Basically the inflection of the quarterback's voice changes, and what it does, since most defensive guys are attack guys and are used to rushing hard, once you hear the hard count it simulates the idea that the quarterback is about to take the snap, and that causes the defensive player to jump offsides."

And as for the silent count?

"The silent count catches them off guard because they don't hear the cadence of the quarterback's voice," he said. "So the offense just walks up to the ball and snaps it so the defense won't pick up on the timing of the quarterback."

Edited November 6, 2009 by Falcon Heene

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

Sorry to ruin this thread and all..

but could someone explain the differences between a hard count and silent count? -_-

The best example anyone could give you would be to listen to Peyton. Theres a HUT that is louder than the other ones before it but doesnt always spring the O to life. Thats to draw some movement from the defense, specifically blitzers to see where its comign from. If you get a chance to watch the NO game again you'll notice that Brees did it very well 3 or 4 times.

A silent count would be exactly what it sounds like....silent. The team goes on a set count or on the motion of mcclure who would be tapped in the *** by matt or something like that.

They've gotta stop telegraphing and I think the posters mention the road games are dead on. All three times it was a problem it was on the road in a loud house.

Matt's a commanding smart dude...lets give him more flexibility with the silent count. Get McClure to bob his head two times...then three...or none at all. Lets mix it up and get some easy yards as well as keep defensives back a little bit.

[boxxy]

My link

"A hard count is when a quarterback expects a blitz and changes the tone of his voice," he said. "Basically the inflection of the quarterback's voice changes, and what it does, since most defensive guys are attack guys and are used to rushing hard, once you hear the hard count it simulates the idea that the quarterback is about to take the snap, and that causes the defensive player to jump offsides."

And as for the silent count?

"The silent count catches them off guard because they don't hear the cadence of the quarterback's voice," he said. "So the offense just walks up to the ball and snaps it so the defense won't pick up on the timing of the quarterback."

The best example anyone could give you would be to listen to Peyton. Theres a HUT that is louder than the other ones before it but doesnt always spring the O to life. Thats to draw some movement from the defense, specifically blitzers to see where its comign from. If you get a chance to watch the NO game again you'll notice that Brees did it very well 3 or 4 times.

A silent count would be exactly what it sounds like....silent. The team goes on a set count or on the motion of mcclure who would be tapped in the *** by matt or something like that.

They've gotta stop telegraphing and I think the posters mention the road games are dead on. All three times it was a problem it was on the road in a loud house.

Matt's a commanding smart dude...lets give him more flexibility with the silent count. Get McClure to bob his head two times...then three...or none at all. Lets mix it up and get some easy yards as well as keep defensives back a little bit.

Thanks, appreciate it