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Youngin

The bible is a work of fiction

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sure do try to make the Christians believe in not beleiving...But, I also beleive that their is a God. Not the Christian God, not Allah, and not the 100's of other gods their are. I don't know if their is a religion for this, but I believe in a God that really doesn't give a crap what happens to us, and doesn't really affect us, he is just the one that created us. I just have too hard of a time believing that nothing made us, and that were all here for absolutly nothing, although I do beleive in evolution.

It's not about "making" someone believe in not believing; it's about lifting the shroud of ignorance and misinformation that subverts the truth.

The part of your quote that I bolded, if you would watch the Andy Thopmson video I embedded in post #114, you would understand exactly why you have that feeling. And you would understand that feeling is not actual evidence for there being a creator of the universe, it's just a human convention. It sounds to me like you are in a similar place I was in when I first came to the full realization that the bible I grew up with and the christian god I prayed to was a total load of b.s. While I was sure the bible was false, my indoctrination and old habits still tugged at me leading me to believe that there still must be a creator. If you keep looking at the evidence, this too will fade as you learn more and your mind lets go of it's old crutches.

Keep searching, sounds like you are on the right path towards freeing yourself. At least you aren't shackled by arbitrary rules expressed in a bigoted misogynistic bronze-aged fairy tale.

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Bible is pure fiction huh? Well so is evolution!

Thanks for the heads up. Care to back that up with some evidence? Or are we supposed to just take your infallible word for it?

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It's not about "making" someone believe in not believing; it's about lifting the shroud of ignorance and misinformation that subverts the truth.

The part of your quote that I bolded, if you would watch the Andy Thopmson video I embedded in post #114, you would understand exactly why you have that feeling. And you would understand that feeling is not actual evidence for there being a creator of the universe, it's just a human convention. It sounds to me like you are in a similar place I was in when I first came to the full realization that the bible I grew up with and the christian god I prayed to was a total load of b.s. While I was sure the bible was false, my indoctrination and old habits still tugged at me leading me to believe that there still must be a creator. If you keep looking at the evidence, this too will fade as you learn more and your mind lets go of it's old crutches.

Keep searching, sounds like you are on the right path towards freeing yourself. At least you aren't shackled by arbitrary rules expressed in a bigoted misogynistic bronze-aged fairy tale.

random you are so clueless lifting a shroud of ignorance you are that shroud. clouding peoples mind because you don't wanna read. there is god and it is the one you read about that makes miracles happen.

i feel you are no different than the wesboro church folk. so aragant you beleive you know something billions of people don't. yes, man beleives in a creator a "god" but you and less than 1% of the population of the world (athiests) thinks they know the truth and that thousands of generations where wrong and there is no one.

the sad thing is if you read the bible instead of letting people telling you what the bible is you might get it.

the god in the bible is the same one that muslims native americans, anyone who has basic intelligence of life knows there is a "god" in the bible there is a christian veiw of him in the koran a muslim veiw. every religion has a veiw on him. even the cave men knew. but you think you are smarter than all and since you have not experienced a higher power there must not be one. that is arrogance at its worst. there are billions on billions that have experienced god. you call them shrouded.

no, only you are walking through life with your blinders on. you want proof look in the mirror feel the dirt under you drink the water you are made from. gods first miracle LIFE. but you arrogance will not allow you to see what is. Keep your blinders on hopefully for you god will get right in your face one day as he has so many others. and as i said before read the bilble brfore you talk about what is in it.

arrogance and shameless propaganda makes you westboro's closest cousin on these boards

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random you are so clueless lifting a shroud of ignorance you are that shroud. clouding peoples mind because you don't wanna read. there is god and it is the one you read about that makes miracles happen.

i feel you are no different than the wesboro church folk. so aragant you beleive you know something billions of people don't. yes, man beleives in a creator a "god" but you and less than 1% of the population of the world (athiests) thinks they know the truth and that thousands of generations where wrong and there is no one.

the sad thing is if you read the bible instead of letting people telling you what the bible is you might get it.

the god in the bible is the same one that muslims native americans, anyone who has basic intelligence of life knows there is a "god" in the bible there is a christian veiw of him in the koran a muslim veiw. every religion has a veiw on him. even the cave men knew. but you think you are smarter than all and since you have not experienced a higher power there must not be one. that is arrogance at its worst. there are billions on billions that have experienced god. you call them shrouded.

no, only you are walking through life with your blinders on. you want proof look in the mirror feel the dirt under you drink the water you are made from. gods first miracle LIFE. but you arrogance will not allow you to see what is. Keep your blinders on hopefully for you god will get right in your face one day as he has so many others. and as i said before read the bilble brfore you talk about what is in it.

arrogance and shameless propaganda makes you westboro's closest cousin on these boards

Hmmmn.....I didn't know so many have had face to face contact with God. Those that have must be total misfits in today's society...Those dudes standing on street corners with those cardboard signs warning us all about the impending disclosure.

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You know this sheet right here sounds pretty fkng real about right now .....I mean could they have said it any more clearly. we been lied to about this MOFOOKING spill .....this sheet is going to be almost as bad as a nuclear war ......and nobody really cares YET ...... ......

Revelation 8:8–11. “The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea became blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed … A third of the waters became wormwood, and many died from the water, because it was made bitter.”

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random you are so clueless lifting a shroud of ignorance you are that shroud. clouding peoples mind because you don't wanna read. there is god and it is the one you read about that makes miracles happen.

i feel you are no different than the wesboro church folk. so aragant you beleive you know something billions of people don't. yes, man beleives in a creator a "god" but you and less than 1% of the population of the world (athiests) thinks they know the truth and that thousands of generations where wrong and there is no one.

the sad thing is if you read the bible instead of letting people telling you what the bible is you might get it.

the god in the bible is the same one that muslims native americans, anyone who has basic intelligence of life knows there is a "god" in the bible there is a christian veiw of him in the koran a muslim veiw. every religion has a veiw on him. even the cave men knew. but you think you are smarter than all and since you have not experienced a higher power there must not be one. that is arrogance at its worst. there are billions on billions that have experienced god. you call them shrouded.

no, only you are walking through life with your blinders on. you want proof look in the mirror feel the dirt under you drink the water you are made from. gods first miracle LIFE. but you arrogance will not allow you to see what is. Keep your blinders on hopefully for you god will get right in your face one day as he has so many others. and as i said before read the bilble brfore you talk about what is in it.

arrogance and shameless propaganda makes you westboro's closest cousin on these boards

I truly feel sorry for you. I don't mean that in a condescending manner; I honestly feel a deep well of pity for you. I came to the conclusion long ago that there are people in the world that simply will not be able to be reached, or for whatever reason choose not to allow themselves to be reached. Whether thats from low intelligence, deep indoctrination, or just a terrible surrounding environtment that continually fosters ignorance, it doesn't really matter. What matters is there will always be people like you who are ignorant beyond imagination, and it makes me sad for you.

But it makes me more sad for the rest of us that have to endure your willfull ignorance and refusal to accept reality.

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Hmmmn.....I didn't know so many have had face to face contact with God. Those that have must be total misfits in today's society...Those dudes standing on street corners with those cardboard signs warning us all about the impending disclosure.

im not saying face to face simply that god has impacted many billions of folks. if you go around asking most likely you personally know many who will claim to have been impacted and as for some it may be coincidental many more you will find have statistacally legitamate claim that divine intervention occured.

i personally have several instance's but 1 was no doubt a spritual connection with the person i most loved and cherrished in my life. when they exited this world my body and mind felt somthing. i can't explain it b/c it would require me to get to personal but i have no doubt the exact time they left was the exact time i experienced this feeling for no reason. buffy the vampire slayer opening theme does not make a man like me come to tears especially when i was not even paying attention to the tv.

i don't have ESP or any psychic ability and have never been affected like that since. ofcourse no one that close to me has passed since and for me there are only now my daughter and brother hold that emotion.

i hope that i will not experience this again b/c of what i fear it would mean. there are a couple of more things that i feel would be statistacally impossible in times of great need, but nothing where i felt this spiritual communication.

i will tell you i pray to our creator as much as i think of him. why is it so hard to beleive he is listening all the time. computers can translate trillions of bits of information a second the human brain can translate 500 trilion bits per second

there are only arond 7 billion people on earth. even for computers it is possible to monitor that amount of information.

the key of all wise people is the exploration of all the questions in life. understanding learning will never end. some are arrogant and beleive they are so smart further exploration for answers they don't have is enough to claim it is false. some of those people have refused to beleive, they are sure they have seen it all.

none of us will be able to know all, but shutting up your mind will only lead to ignorance.

i would tell you to keep your mind open and explore things with spirit and logic and with an understanding our logic as humans is only so advanced. if you give a lion the bluprints to build a skyscraper, the animal will have no understanding of what he see's. sometimes we humans are much the same. to understand what i am saying can perhaps allow you to transend human limited logic. but you must keep your mind open.

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none of us will be able to know all, but shutting up your mind will only lead to ignorance.

Hello Pot, this is Kettle calling.

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Christians do not require proof, they follow in faith. A much harder road to travel than "I only believe what I see and my actions have no consequences."

As far as evolution, the big bang, etc... They are a house of cards with more contradictions than comparing the words of Christ with most of the Old Testament. (Please don't stone me for eating delicious scrimps.)

Now, I am sure the truth lies between the Garden of Eden and Jurassic Park. But when scientists try to tell how a dinosaur moved, what it ate, and what color it was all from a single bone? Um yeah.

The best I have seen this on display was in an argument several years ago about the bumblebee's flight. The atheist defense was a certain scientist had proven why the bumblebee could fly. So I looked it up. His whole theory came down to this: "There is a mathematical formula for the bumblebee flight because bumblebees fly. We just haven't found it yet."

We all take things on faith. We just differ on our level of denial.

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I would rather live my life right, and be wrong after I'm dead, then to live my life wrong and realize I made a huge error.

If you deny Christ, then you deny your own redemption.

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After having read, wathched, listened, and deciphered what all of the previous posters have shared here. Allow me this small coherent suggestion. When you, all of you are in a position to question what next will be. How many of you repeat the words " oh God"? How many of you repeat the words "oh Darwin"?

What I'm trying to say is that there must be belief in a higher being. What and who that higher being is to each of us is dependent upon our own personal comfort levels and understanding of what is considered written events of history and historical facts. One may chose to not believe in anything, one may chose to believe in God. One may chose to be lieve in Yahweh, Mohammad, Ra, Thor, or Buddha. Regardless of what we refer to them as, we cannot believe that there is not one higher being that created the universe in which this planet resides. For if we do, the very fabric of a caring human race is null and void. Evolution is the history of the creation ism that began this world, but, what created evolution? Biochemical reactions at the bottom of the sea? But, what created the biochemical reaction? What or who created the elements of life and arranged them so that we are what we are today? That friends is religion. The Bible is the written history of events that took place in a secluded area to a secluded people. Just as did the belief in Buddha, Ra, Mohammad, Thor, etc. And, what it all boils down to is people do not have the faith to believe in another person as the saviour. Therefore, it's more likely they will believe in a saviour that is no longer of this earth that made an impact on the society they lived in and that impact was recorded by others and shared across the lands so people would have the faith to continue on and make it through another day.

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The theory of "evolution" only creates questions to already unanswered questions.

These so-called scientists (athiests) can't even explain how we learned how to reproduce let alone how the universe was created. According to their theories, we wouldn't have had the brain capacity to know our own body parts and how to use them if we evolved from tiny organisms. Leave it to them though and you'll probably get an answer with no factual backing to it like, "We just knew." <_<

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The bible is NOT a work of fiction.

That implies that Satan is not our lord and savior.

And that just isn't right.

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ironicc thing is, the bible says that people would proclaim things such as this, and many more thing that are going on right now, the blind (lost) will never see, and its intended to be this way. Praise be to God.

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If sky-man existed, you'd think that with 2000+ years since man created christian god in his image that they could come up with JUST ONE PIECE of evidence supporting it's existence.....

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Wow, Metatron, just wow. I have to go to work now, so you have a chance to go back and re-read what you posted, and what I've posted, before I have my chance to respond. For your sake, I'd advise that you do. However, I sincerely hope you leave in the part about "What the Bleep Do We Know?" Because I actually have seen it. And if this is where your perspective comes from, then that explains a lot of your problem. I'm looking forward to debunking this one =)

You know i have a simple response for all your talk. Because sometimes some people just know and feel it in their hearts deep down that it's there. That there really is something there. I am one of them. I feel blessed at times and imo luck has nothing to do with it. Theres not number no link no quote no OPINION that you spew that will convince a real Christian to disbelieve.

I just know in my heart of hearts he's there and that's what matters to me. Plain and simple.

But an A for effort for going out of your way to try and convinse people that their religion is stupid and what they believe is stupid.

God forbid you need help one day. Godforbid a family members life depends on these people that believe in these things your taking your time to try and debunk and they put that extra effort because a higher calling tells them too. Or their beliefs are pushing them to help you or your one in need.

Just think about that,

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If sky-man existed, you'd think that with 2000+ years since man created christian god in his image that they could come up with JUST ONE PIECE of evidence supporting it's existence.....

Read the whole topic. I might not be the best christian because of my temper and my attitude at times but it's pricks like you that just make the world a worse place in general regardless of religion. You just push it with rude *** comments like sky-man

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Christians do not require proof, they follow in faith. A much harder road to travel than "I only believe what I see and my actions have no consequences."

As far as evolution, the big bang, etc... They are a house of cards with more contradictions than comparing the words of Christ with most of the Old Testament. (Please don't stone me for eating delicious scrimps.)

Now, I am sure the truth lies between the Garden of Eden and Jurassic Park. But when scientists try to tell how a dinosaur moved, what it ate, and what color it was all from a single bone? Um yeah.

The best I have seen this on display was in an argument several years ago about the bumblebee's flight. The atheist defense was a certain scientist had proven why the bumblebee could fly. So I looked it up. His whole theory came down to this: "There is a mathematical formula for the bumblebee flight because bumblebees fly. We just haven't found it yet."

We all take things on faith. We just differ on our level of denial.

I really don't think you could have said this any better

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RandomFan...

Time to put you in your place...

852throne.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

Greatest thread ever. Randomfan, will you be my dad? :P

Seriously. You have pointed out some great facts, and theories based on logic. Things that I learned long ago to stop bringing up to the "faithers", but great nonetheless.

It all comes down to the most simplistic way to look at it. You arent gonna change the minds of people who have had a certain way of thinking pounded into their heads their entire lives. Just as they wont change our minds with talk of blind faith.

Im glad you took the time to try however. It has occupied me for much of my work day today, and for that I thank you.

P.S. I love that you, quite succinctly, laid out how absurdly narrow-minded blind faith is, and the opposition's only response is basically the equivalent of "it is what it is" :lol: (worst cliche ever). Now if you will excuse me, I am going to go kill babies, sacrifice goats, and say cuss words, since my opinions clearly mean i've got Satan inside me!!! <_<

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Normally I come here to talk football but got bored with all the negativity and came here. Bad choice hahaha. Anyways I will get on topic. I know I am going to get a lot of crap about my views, but I will give it a go anyways.

So on the the point of why I am even posting in here. I was raised a Christian, and was that way until about age 10 when even at that age I realized that there were questions no one around me could answer without the God did it answer. So basically I had become a Christian atheist at that age, I claimed to believe because of social restrictions and people around me. When I became a teenager I had questions that science could not answer, same thing as being as when I was younger. I was an atheist for about 14 years. Had a life changing event and started to dig as deep into Christianity as I had looking for the answers in science. (I am not scientist or even close just spent alot of time reading what I was interested in) I found that there are alot of questions and answers there. I am not one of these people that does not ask the hard questions about my faith. Blind faith cannot be trusted. I (as someone else has said) know what I believe and have spent the last 2 years asking the hard question and finding the answers myself.

Everyone wants to say that faith is circular reasoning, this may be true for some. I say that everything has a degree of circular reasoning. Take for instance science, there is always a supposed answer to every question. Example, Darwin when he 1st saw that there was a connection between certain species of animals he probably theorized that there was a bigger connection than just looks. So he took what he thought and had made the connections fit his theory. I am not saying that species dont evolve so dont take it that way. What I am saying is that for every question you already have an answer in mind and will do alot to make your answer fit the question.

Onto a huge question, why were there books left out of the Bible, The Cannon decided what books were put in and what was left out. Reasons book were left out included alot of things. Everything from the Authorship's could not be verified, to the books just did not make logical sense, and they did not fit into what everyone else was saying. The latter is probably the reason these are ever mentioned when having a discussion about the Bible. I goes deeper than The Cannon just saying this is false. It goes into the book being a fake. If 20 people are telling a similar story and one is saying the total opposite then either 20 are incorrect or maybe the one is incorrect. Do we throw out all the books because one says something different?

On there being inconsistencies in the books I will give one example. When Jesus goes in front of Pilate and is questioned, you will get different accounts of things, such as how many people were there, what time of day it was. Things like this. This can be explained pretty easily, say 4 people saw a car crash from 4 different angles you will get different stories. Same thing here. Lots of different people saw lots of different things from different POVs. The point is that all the people saw the same thing. Jesus being questioned by Pilate. They all saw the same outcome, Pilate offering to kill Jesus or the murderer. The saw the people condemn Jesus to death. That is way more important that someone saying there were a few, there were many, lots of people had gathered.

Some harder questions. The flood, the flood is a story in almost every religion. Does that make it any less true or false? Not really, IMO if it does anything it points to the validity of the story. Religions from everywhere saw that there was a major flood that destroyed most of the earth. Or what they perceived to be the entire earth at that time. Something big happened its not even a Christian issue, it a historical issue. I dont think that any one would say that the Jesus Christ of the Bible is not a real person, they will debate on who and what he was. There are only 3 logical thought processes that should even come into play in this question. CS Lewis said it best. He is Liar Lord or Lunatic. We have no record to put Jesus in the liar of lord category. We have no record of him ever doing anything to earn those 2 titles. I know that some will say that David Koresh and Josheph Smith said the same thing. But here is where that logic fails. We have no record of Jesus ever doing anything to make himself look better. For Koresh and Smith this is exactly what they were doing. If we look at Smith Koresh or any other cult leaders you want to throw out there, they do what they do for personal gain. Whether that gain be fiscally, sexually, or because they like people following them they all have something personally vested into what they are doing.

Wow this was a long post, and I am not trying to do anything but maybe answer some questions I saw posted earlier in the thread with some thought and logic. If anyone has any other question I would be glad to try to answer them for you. Not saying that I can but I will give it my best shot. If I dont know the answers I will tell you straight up, I dont know. But I will look for them. I dont think I have disrespected anyone in here. I know this is a very touchy subject so I would appreciate the same respect that I have given.

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The U.S. National Academy of Sciences has stated that intelligent design "and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life" are not science because they cannot be tested by experiment, do not generate any predictions, and propose no new hypotheses of their own.

So by this thought process we have to apply the following logic. We cannot test evolution. We have never seen personally, nor do we have 1st hand accounts of evolution ever happening. There are no experiments to look to and say "look we sped up time and this is the result we got". Evolution also proposes no new hypotheses of its own. Again its circular. It goes something like this. We believe evolution to be true b/c we have seen the outcome of evolution, we know this is the outcome of evolution b/c we know evolution is true.

Do we see species adapt? Yes. Have we seen what most will call Macro-evolution? No. There has never been a test where one species evolves into another. Look at bacteria, it adapts to its environment, but at the end of the day its still a bacteria. No matter how long we watch the bacteria, that is all it will ever be.

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