SEC Office says Kiffin still doesn't know the rules!

[CrimsonKat]

Fist, the comment from Kiffin (which has been echoed on these boards by the Vols' minions):

After Cody blocked the field goal attempt, he removed and threw his helmet and ran across the field in celebration as time expired.

"If a play's still going, you can't take your helmet off," Kiffin said. "A guy throws his helmet as the ball's still live. He throws his helmet and then two of their guys go and recover the ball. It's a 15-yard penalty, and you kick again."

Kiffin said he discussed the play with SEC Commissioner Mike Slive and had left phone messages for SEC coordinator of officiating Rogers Redding that hadn't been returned.

Now, the comment from the SEC League Office (as told by Sports Illustrated's Andy Staples):

Andy Staples

INSIDE COLLEGE FOOTBALL

Blown call doesn't matter as Alabama edges Tennessee

The conspiracy theorists came out again Saturday after Alabama nose tackle/aircraft carrier Terrence Cody blocked a second field-goal attempt to secure the Crimson Tide's 12-10 win against Tennessee.

"He took his helmet off!" they screamed. "That's a 15-yard penalty! Tennessee should have gotten another kick!" (Agitated SEC and/or Bama haters typically use a lot of exclamation points.)

...

Now, about that non-call on Cody. Yes, an SEC officiating crew screwed up again. This time, it didn't matter.

Howls erupted after Cody's goal block saved Alabama's bacon. Cody indeed removed his helmet while still in the field of play. That's a big no-no, and it usually merits a 15-yard penalty. But here's where the howlers are wrong. Even if officials had flagged Cody, Tennessee wouldn't have gotten another kick.

Because Alabama blocked and recovered the ball, Alabama had possession. The game can't end on a defensive penalty, but because of the possession change, Alabama wasn't on defense. We'll let SEC spokesman Charles Bloom take it from here.

"The foul for taking helmet off is a live ball foul treated as a dead-ball foul," Bloom wrote in an e-mail Saturday night. "That is, if it happens on a play where time does not expire then the penalty is enforced on the following play. However since the clock ran out on that play, then there is no next play, so there is no penalty to mark off."

[Volunteer Falcon]

Nice to have that cleared up, but I always thought the game couldn't end on a penalty? Bottom line is we had 3 tries to win that game and failed.

[CrimsonKat]

Nice to have that cleared up, but I always thought the game couldn't end on a penalty? Bottom line is we had 3 tries to win that game and failed.

The game cannot end on a defensive penalty so long as the offensive team retains possession. Here is how it would have played out based on the SEC Office's explanation:

- Field Goal kick blocked and recovered by Alabama.

- Cody flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct for removing helmet during the play -- the result is a 15 yard dead ball penalty, which means fifteen yards from the final result of the previous play.

- Alabama had recovered around the 25 yard line or so which means Alabama would have been backed up to the 10 yard line for their first play on offense.

[Volunteer Falcon]

The game cannot end on a defensive penalty so long as the offensive team retains possession. Here is how it would have played out based on the SEC Office's explanation:

- Field Goal kick blocked and recovered by Alabama.

- Cody flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct for removing helmet during the play -- the result is a 15 yard dead ball penalty, which means fifteen yards from the final result of the previous play.

- Alabama had recovered around the 25 yard line or so which means Alabama would have been backed up to the 10 yard line for their first play on offense.

Alright that makes sense, thanks for clearing that up!

[SacFalcFan]

Yeah i will post this on the national boards later if no one else has. They have been complaining about that the entire weekend.

[CrimsonKat]

Bump for you JDU.

[CrimsonKat]

Bump for you JDU.

We may need to put out an APB for JDU. Maybe him and Lane are reading the SEC rulebook together.

[House]

I thought a game can't end under a def penalty

[CrimsonKat]

I thought a game can't end under a def penalty

Read my replies in the 3 Kiffin threads. And the response in the article above.

In short, game can't end on a defensive penalty where the offensive team maintains possession. Game over if possession goes to the defensive team and a dead ball penalty is due to be enforced. The upshot is the 15 yard penalty would have been enforced after Alabama took over possession and no re-kick is allowed.

[jdu00743]

We may need to put out an APB for JDU. Maybe him and Lane are reading the SEC rulebook together.

Not that you had any way of knowing, but my apartment was broken into while I was at work on Monday. I've been dealing with that for the last 48 or so hours.

Thank you for clearing up the rule, apparently I was wrong.

[Bryant Denny]

Not that you had any way of knowing, but my apartment was broken into while I was at work on Monday. I've been dealing with that for the last 48 or so hours.

Thank you for clearing up the rule, apparently I was wrong.

Sorry to hear that JDU. I know the feeling living in ATL.

[Peyton]

After looking at the play again, I have to say that I agree with Lane Kiffin. Cody took his helmet off before Alabama recovered the ball. Not only that, but the ball was behind the line of scrimmage so TN could have retained possession.

So what I am saying is.....the SEC is big liars, Alabama did not have possession of the ball when Cody took his helmet off, and it wasn't even close.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Peyton

[Peyton]

Actually, after I read it again, the problem isn't that the SEC lied, the problem is that Andy Staples doesn't even understand the quote from the SEC official. The SEC official says that penalty is always marked off as if it happened after the play. Or maybe I just didn't understand the way Staples explained it.

I think that is a terrible rule, but if it's true, then Kiffin has no beef.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Peyton

[Volunteer Falcon]

I agree Peyton, the whole situation was a little weird.

[jdu00743]

Haven't you all seen that penalty called where at the end of a game, the kicker misses a FG as time expires, but there is a 15 yard penalty for the jumper on defense using the lineman in front of him or something like that?

Clearly there is no time on the clock and since he missed the FG, they no longer have possession...So why have I seen them be able to kick again?

I still think this is all BS, but it is crying over spilt milk anyways. I mean Alabama's entire team ran out on to the field when the ball was still laying on the ground. If Cody taking off his helmet isn't illegal, that sure as heck is.

[Volunteer Falcon]

Haven't you all seen that penalty called where at the end of a game, the kicker misses a FG as time expires, but there is a 15 yard penalty for the jumper on defense using the lineman in front of him or something like that?

Clearly there is no time on the clock and since he missed the FG, they no longer have possession...So why have I seen them be able to kick again?

I still think this is all BS, but it is crying over spilt milk anyways. I mean Alabama's entire team ran out on to the field when the ball was still laying on the ground. If Cody taking off his helmet isn't illegal, that sure as heck is.

Agreed, the entire incident was handled poorly, but with what we've seen with officiating this year I wasn't surprised one bit.

[Peyton]

Haven't you all seen that penalty called where at the end of a game, the kicker misses a FG as time expires, but there is a 15 yard penalty for the jumper on defense using the lineman in front of him or something like that?

Clearly there is no time on the clock and since he missed the FG, they no longer have possession...So why have I seen them be able to kick again?

I still think this is all BS, but it is crying over spilt milk anyways. I mean Alabama's entire team ran out on to the field when the ball was still laying on the ground. If Cody taking off his helmet isn't illegal, that sure as heck is.

I would be interested in seeing the section of the college football rulebook that says unsportsmanlike conduct or removing your helmet is always enforced after the play, even if it happens during the play. I kind of think they just made that up to cover thier azzes.

[c_ponder]

South Carolina coming up, move on already. I know bama broke your hearts, but still alot of football to play, right..

No matter what the rule book says vols still wont believe it, you lost get over it you'll get your chance again next year.

What about this one? clearly a penalty overlooked by the officials. dont hear vol fans saying anything about this one.. Helmet clearly off and no call. Not to mention all the pi's on jones and that holding penalty that gave crompton enough time to hit gerald jones for a long pass to bama 45 or so..

“Tennessee players Janzen Jackson (15) and Art Evans (25) reacts after the Volunteers successfully made an onside kick in the fourth quarter of an NCAA college football game against Alabama at Bryant-Denny Stadium in Tuscaloosa, Ala., Saturday, Oct. 24, 2009.

[Volunteer Falcon]

South Carolina coming up, move on already. I know bama broke your hearts, but still alot of football to play, right..

No matter what the rule book says vols still wont believe it, you lost get over it you'll get your chance again next year.

What about this one? clearly a penalty overlooked by the officials. dont hear vol fans saying anything about this one.. Helmet clearly off and no call. Not to mention all the pi's on jones and that holding penalty that gave crompton enough time to hit gerald jones for a long pass to bama 45 or so..

“Tennessee players Janzen Jackson (15) and Art Evans (25) reacts after the Volunteers successfully made an onside kick in the fourth quarter of an NCAA college football game against Alabama at Bryant-Denny Stadium in Tuscaloosa, Ala., Saturday, Oct. 24, 2009.

I am beyond moved on, just talking about the horrible officiating this year that has effected almost everyone. Bama didn't break our hearts, we broke our own hearts, no excuse to those that game when we had 3 shots at winning it. You harping about the holding call and the other calls and no calls just further proves that the officiating is horrible. All those things should of been called and weren't.

[SacFalcFan]

South Carolina coming up, move on already. I know bama broke your hearts, but still alot of football to play, right..

No matter what the rule book says vols still wont believe it, you lost get over it you'll get your chance again next year.

What about this one? clearly a penalty overlooked by the officials. dont hear vol fans saying anything about this one.. Helmet clearly off and no call. Not to mention all the pi's on jones and that holding penalty that gave crompton enough time to hit gerald jones for a long pass to bama 45 or so..

“Tennessee players Janzen Jackson (15) and Art Evans (25) reacts after the Volunteers successfully made an onside kick in the fourth quarter of an NCAA college football game against Alabama at Bryant-Denny Stadium in Tuscaloosa, Ala., Saturday, Oct. 24, 2009.

how about the uga game after they scored they had the team come out orchestrated by kiffin and they were celebrating on the field as a group.. that is a 15 yard penalty... they did that more than 3 times.. if you want to stick to the letter of the law they should have been kicking from their 15 yard line the entire game due to their team celebrations ON THE FIELD.

[c_ponder]

how about the uga game after they scored they had the team come out orchestrated by kiffin and they were celebrating on the field as a group.. that is a 15 yard penalty... they did that more than 3 times.. if you want to stick to the letter of the law they should have been kicking from their 15 yard line the entire game due to their team celebrations ON THE FIELD.

Indeed. Monte's son is immature, among other things.. Complains about a call he was wrong about, even when most of the calls go in his teams favor, and rubs it in when his team wins like UGA.. He sure is setting a great example for young players, and what college football is really about, I wouldnt want my two boys playing for him, bottom line..

[Volunteer Falcon]

Indeed. Monte's son is immature, among other things.. Complains about a call he was wrong about, even when most of the calls go in his teams favor, and rubs it in when his team wins like UGA.. He sure is setting a great example for young players, and what college football is really about, I wouldnt want my two boys playing for him, bottom line..

Tennessee huddles up on the sideline and does that at some point in every game.

[SacFalcFan]

Tennessee huddles up on the sideline and does that at some point in every game.

these were on the field celebrations right after the scores by kiffin and his bunch.. it wasn't just a huddle.

[Volunteer Falcon]

When they grouped up and started jumping up and down, they do that every game mainly to get the crowed hyped up.

[Bryant Denny]

The pic was captioned .

“Tennessee players Janzen Jackson (15) and Art Evans (25) reacts after the Volunteers successfully made an onside kick in the fourth quarter of an NCAA college football game against Alabama at Bryant-Denny Stadium in Tuscaloosa, Ala., Saturday, Oct. 24, 2009.