Turner vs the Pats D-Rewatched Game

[phattywankenobi]

Before people start getting these out of the air notions about Turner is too fat or it's the 390+ carry curse someone had to notice a few of these things. Wilfork was pushing McClure back rapidly and very deep like a kid on a skateboard. There were several plays where Turner literally had to push the oline in the back on the line of scrimmage to get any yards or at least to get out of the way. Someone mentioned yesterday that the Oline are still setting up their blocks when Turner is ready to hit the hole. That's why you are seeing him hesitate in some plays because there is no where to go. Turner is a bruiser back and will not have much of a bounce to the outside. His specialty lies in getting to the second level and running people over.

Also there were a minimum of 6 players on the line, 4 down 2 up, probaly 98% of the time. There LB's did not get caught up in traffic. I'm going on observations that anyone can see if you take the time rather than voo doo spells and supposition.

[bossFALCON™]

i've been saying it's the oline. i saw mcclure get owned horribly by wilfork twice in that game. once on a pass play and another time on a run. most plays it seemed like he had 2 or 3 guys in his face before he could get back to the line.

on top of all that turner doesn't have great acceleration unless he's in open field. he reminds me of a boulder rolling down a hill. at first it won't roll so fast, but the more it rolls the faster it will go and it'll start to plow **** over.

[Karst41]

Wilfork is Huge, and the No huddle gets him winded.

This info will prove to be useful later this season when we play them again !

[Dharma Initiative]

I sure wish TD went ahead and replaced McClure when McClure was wanting a new contract.

[Karst41]

I sure wish TD went ahead and replaced McClure when McClure was wanting a new contract.

With who?

[SaintsH8]

That is what I have been saying to all the people blaming Turner. It is the oline

[phattywankenobi]

I also didn't notice Ovie doing anything. I could have just missed that though. He was usually one that would open the gate to the second level. The Oline did not push their d back but the Falcons D were either knocked back or looked like they were tangled in a net.

I believe Smith said it last year just as so many others have said before. It all starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

[Tandy]

Before people start getting these out of the air notions about Turner is too fat or it's the 390+ carry curse someone had to notice a few of these things. Wilfork was pushing McClure back rapidly and very deep like a kid on a skateboard. There were several plays where Turner literally had to push the oline in the back on the line of scrimmage to get any yards or at least to get out of the way. Someone mentioned yesterday that the Oline are still setting up their blocks when Turner is ready to hit the hole. That's why you are seeing him hesitate in some plays because there is no where to go. Turner is a bruiser back and will not have much of a bounce to the outside. His specialty lies in getting to the second level and running people over.

Also there were a minimum of 6 players on the line, 4 down 2 up, probaly 98% of the time. There LB's did not get caught up in traffic. I'm going on observations that anyone can see if you take the time rather than voo doo spells and supposition.

You are correct. For instance, the last play of the first quarter, all of the linemen had control of their blocks except McClure - He had Wilfork and Green pushing him back 4 yards into the backfield. Almost ran him into Turner. Turner tried to go forward, but was tackled for a 2 yard loss. What can he do when they are getting to him in the backfield.

Yes, they were heavy in the box all day.

[phattywankenobi]

You are correct. For instance, the last play of the first quarter, all of the linemen had control of their blocks except McClure - He had Wilfork and Green pushing him back 4 yards into the backfield. Almost ran him into Turner. Turner tried to go forward, but was tackled for a 2 yard loss. What can he do when they are getting to him in the backfield.

Yes, they were heavy in the box all day.

At the beginning of the year I didn't like the Bye Week being so early but now it sounds like a good opportunity to retool the O and D lines while getting Norwood back, hopefully getting Tye Hill involved, and getting William Moore some game time reps in two weeks.

[Tandy]

At the beginning of the year I didn't like the Bye Week being so early but now it sounds like a good opportunity to retool the O and D lines while getting Norwood back, hopefully getting Tye Hill involved, and getting William Moore some game time reps in two weeks.

Yeah, I think we'll actually enjoy this bye week more than the players I have a feeling - they are going to come out looking more like the players we expect to see every week during the 49er game. I think Smitty is a great teacher and he'll get this under control.

[UNCFalcon]

Wilfork is Huge, and the No huddle gets him winded.

This info will prove to be useful later this season when we play them again !

I only said this hmmm.... all week long. Why doesn't the coaching staff listen to me?!

Okay, so I did say that all week long, but I'm not proud enough to think that the coaching staff should listen to me, just for the record.

[Tandy]

I only said this hmmm.... all week long. Why doesn't the coaching staff listen to me?!

Okay, so I did say that all week long, but I'm not proud enough to think that the coaching staff should listen to me, just for the record.

Seemed like they were more successful after Wilfork went out though.

[DriveHomeSafelyAtlantaWins]

Well, to my untrained eye some of the things you said appear to be true. But Smitty said our run game is not where it needs to be even though we are blocking well up front. (Not an exact quote, but pretty close). So I wonder what he means by that .. sounds like it can only mean the problem is somehow with Turner, unless I'm missing something.

[Dharma Initiative]

With who?

Anyone. Should have drafted one for the future anyways.

[whitekb011]

Before people start getting these out of the air notions about Turner is too fat or it's the 390+ carry curse someone had to notice a few of these things. Wilfork was pushing McClure back rapidly and very deep like a kid on a skateboard. There were several plays where Turner literally had to push the oline in the back on the line of scrimmage to get any yards or at least to get out of the way. Someone mentioned yesterday that the Oline are still setting up their blocks when Turner is ready to hit the hole. That's why you are seeing him hesitate in some plays because there is no where to go. Turner is a bruiser back and will not have much of a bounce to the outside. His specialty lies in getting to the second level and running people over.

Also there were a minimum of 6 players on the line, 4 down 2 up, probaly 98% of the time. There LB's did not get caught up in traffic. I'm going on observations that anyone can see if you take the time rather than voo doo spells and supposition.

I also watched the short clips last night and noticed the same thing. Wilfork did get some penetration and significantly on about 3 plays. Also, they were run blizting from the weak side of the formation a lot and sometimes we did not adjust our blocking and turner had to run to the strong side, but then would cut back to one or two NE LB's filling the gap, when the crease to the front side was opening. If you look at the power runs he did, he had about 3-5 runs where he gained 6 or more yards. Also, Turners performance actually went down after Wilfork left the game.

After re-watching the game, I feel better about our performance, but also understand we could have gotten smoked by 30 points if Brady Hits Moss. Our defense played fairly well through 3 quarters and were Physical the entire game. Our offense, on the other hand, lacked "urgency" at the point of attack. That was the entire offense.

[Tandy]

Well, to my untrained eye some of the things you said appear to be true. But Smitty said our run game is not where it needs to be even though we are blocking well up front. (Not an exact quote, but pretty close). So I wonder what he means by that .. sounds like it can only mean the problem is somehow with Turner, unless I'm missing something.

I wouldn't read too much into that. It could be Ovie, Turner, the defenses we've faced, play calling. There could be a million innuendos read into that statement and they could all be wrong or it could be a combination of several things.

Whatever it is - I'm sure it will be addressed during the bye week. I really like the fact that this staff does not sit on their keister when action is needed.

[AutoMax]

Seemed like they were more successful after Wilfork went out though.

I was thinking the same thing. Either that or he was still owning us from the bench.

[kevykev21]

You guys (and gal) are calling out McClure like this?

*Enter Gazoo to defend his boy*

I agree 100%, and have defended Turner multiple times on this myself. It will be interesting to come back to this thread after gazoo has a chance to prepare his defense on McClure and call out all you haterz. You have some nerve.....

[Tandy]

You guys (and gal) are calling out McClure like this?

*Enter Gazoo to defend his boy*

I agree 100%, and have defended Turner multiple times on this myself. It will be interesting to come back to this thread after gazoo has a chance to prepare his defense on McClure and call out all you haterz. You have some nerve.....

I'm in no way hating on McClure. I really, really like him and the spirit and toughness and leadership he brings to the o-line. He does a great job pulling most of the time. However, he really had his hands full in this game. I didn't catch it as much during the game - but when I rewatched it without all the emotion of watching a live game, I was able to see where the D was getting into the backfield. There could be a million reasons for this - wet field, double teaming, size differential, play calling, technique - ****, even the wrong shoes! I was just agreeing with Phatty that there were problems Sunday with the o-line opening holes for the run. I also believe Smitty, Boudreau and company will correct that problem over the bye week.

Bottom line, it was a tough day for the o-line Sunday.

[whitekb011]

You guys (and gal) are calling out McClure like this?

*Enter Gazoo to defend his boy*

I agree 100%, and have defended Turner multiple times on this myself. It will be interesting to come back to this thread after gazoo has a chance to prepare his defense on McClure and call out all you haterz. You have some nerve.....

McClure got blown up a couple of times, the tape will tell that. But if you see my previous post to this thread, the OL I believe was not the main reason turner is not producing. There are going to be plays where we don't run well, but the point is, Turner, is trying to cut it back and try and get the big gain, all the time. I believe he starts running front side more, he will gain more yardage. Then when we run the stretch play, after a bunch of front side runs, that will open the cut back for a big gain. It's like Play action, only just with the running game.

[JKH5785]

sometimes or at times. I have seen Ovie block a guy that already is being blocked and leave another defender open.

I too have been saying that Turner doesn't have the lanes he had last year.

[Rev_Hal]

That is what I have been saying to all the people blaming Turner. It is the oline

Turner was hot in the pre-season, do I seriously doubt that he lost his mojo once the season started. I think its the OL, and the fact we have faced some tough defenses.

[UnrealfalcoN]

Well, Smitty said that the O-line run Blocked very well. So either he needs to step up and actually tell the o-line like it is, or stop hurting turner's feelings

[ConnFalcon]

Well, Smitty said that the O-line run Blocked very well. So either he needs to step up and actually tell the o-line like it is, or stop hurting turner's feelings

I think behind closed doors Smitty will tell the O-line to step up. If the fans can see it, there is no doubt he can.

[kevykev21]

I'm in no way hating on McClure. I really, really like him and the spirit and toughness and leadership he brings to the o-line. He does a great job pulling most of the time. However, he really had his hands full in this game. I didn't catch it as much during the game - but when I rewatched it without all the emotion of watching a live game, I was able to see where the D was getting into the backfield. There could be a million reasons for this - wet field, double teaming, size differential, play calling, technique - ****, even the wrong shoes! I was just agreeing with Phatty that there were problems Sunday with the o-line opening holes for the run. I also believe Smitty, Boudreau and company will correct that problem over the bye week.

Bottom line, it was a tough day for the o-line Sunday.

I got it, Tandy, and I agree. I was just being sarcastic with the "hater" comment (but serious about Gazoo!)