ESPN NFC South Stock Watch

[Dharma Initiative]

Falling

Fox

John Fox, coach, Panthers. This time, there are no lightning rods around Fox. He’s got a 0-3 team and the blame all falls on the coach. His seat is getting very hot and fans again are starting the rumblings for Bill Cowher.

In the past, Fox has used coordinators or injuries as scapegoats. That’s not going to fly this time around. If the Panthers don’t turn things around immediately, Fox’s days will be numbered.

Turner

Michael Turner, running back, Falcons. Is “The Burner’’ burned out? He was held to 56 yards (on 15 carries) by the Patriots. For the season, Turner is averaging 3.5 yards a carry. That’s a full yard less than he averaged last season.

You have to start worrying if the Falcons might have gone to the well too often last season when they gave Turner 376 carries.

Leftwich

Byron Leftwich, quarterback, Buccaneers. Leftwich’s stint as a starter didn’t even last three full games. He got pulled during the game against the Giants and Josh Johnson has been selected to start against the Redskins.

Leftwich has been dropped to No. 3 with rookie Josh Freeman moving up to the backup role. The problems went way beyond Leftwich. He took the fall for the entire offense and you probably won’t see Leftwich back on the field again as the Bucs go with youth.

Rising

Williams

Gregg Williams, defensive coordinator, Saints. He was hired to bring a legitimate defense to New Orleans. Mission accomplished. When Sunday’s game was close and on the line, the New Orleans defense kept forcing Buffalo to punt.

That kind of thing just didn’t happen for New Orleans last year. But Williams’ aggressive approach has brought pressure for quarterbacks and turnovers. With an offense that already was good, continued improvement by the defense could make the Saints scary.

Thomas

Pierre Thomas, running back, Saints. Turns out Thomas had the flu in the days leading into Sunday’s game. He also was coming back from a knee injury. None of that mattered.

With Mike Bell out with a knee injury, Thomas gave the Saints a very consistent running game.

Jahri Evans, guard, Saints. We’ll make it a sweep for the Saints because they were the only victorious NFC South team this week.

Evans

Evans doesn’t get a lot of attention, but this guy quietly has developed into one of the league’s best guards and he’s the anchor of what’s become a very good offensive line.

That unit hasn’t missed a beat with left tackle Jammal Brown out with an injury and Evans and fellow guard Carl Nicks are big parts of the reason the Saints suddenly are able to run the ball with some consistency.

[Tandy]

SMH - Pathetic.

[Dharma Initiative]

SMH - Pathetic.

Exactly, Turner is one of my favorite players and I represent his jersey every Sunday, but he has been pathetic this season. Part of it is the o-line, but he also isn't hitting holes the same speed as last season.

[duncja]

Exactly, Turner is one of my favorite players and I represent his jersey every Sunday, but he has been pathetic this season. Part of it is the o-line, but he also isn't hitting holes the same speed as last season.

I disagree... I think he's getting back to the line quick, but he's going down on first contact alot.

[MashDaddy]

let see....it may be the fact that teams commit to stopping him>> Idk thats me...turner and the crew will be ready come week 5

[Dharma Initiative]

let see....it may be the fact that teams commit to stopping him>> Idk thats me...turner and the crew will be ready come week 5

I guess teams don't commit to stopping Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson, two of last year's rushing leaders. Because they are still having their ways with defenses.

[The Red Stallions]

I guess teams don't commit to stopping Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson, two of last year's rushing leaders. Because they are still having their ways with defenses.

And the difference between the two teams?

One is led by a second year player who is supposed to hit a "Sophmore Slump" at some point while the other 2 teams are led by proven vets. The defenses are making us beat them with Ryan, once they realize Ryan can beat them through the air then teams will have to drop more back in coverage which lets Turner run wild again.

Its 3 games into the season, i dont understand why everyone is blowing Turner up.

[Dharma Initiative]

And the difference between the two teams?

One is led by a second year player who is supposed to hit a "Sophmore Slump" at some point while the other 2 teams are led by proven vets. The defenses are making us beat them with Ryan, once they realize Ryan can beat them through the air then teams will have to drop more back in coverage which lets Turner run wild again.

Its 3 games into the season, i dont understand why everyone is blowing Turner up.

i think teams are much more respective of Ryan than of Kerry Colins. And more scared of Ryan with Gonzalez, Jenkins, and White than or Favre and his b-level receivers.

[Osiruz]

Exactly, Turner is one of my favorite players and I represent his jersey every Sunday, but he has been pathetic this season. Part of it is the o-line, but he also isn't hitting holes the same speed as last season.

its the scheme,

they are not running effective stretch plays that maximize his speed, they are playing the wait and see a gap approach which is failing big time. He is also partly to blame though, because he isn't exactly taking care of the ball right now. But the failure mostly lies in the coaching and the line not executing their blocks properly.

[DUB]

let see....it may be the fact that teams commit to stopping him>> Idk thats me...turner and the crew will be ready come week 5

and they didnt commit to stopping him last season!?!?

[ki46dinah]

I like how conveniantly everyone forgets that Turner practically led the league in YPC during preseason.

He is just fine...he just has been bottled up a bit early on. He will be fine...which just need to be more consistent offensively. The fumbles do need to stop though, that shiite is gettin old quick.

[Dharma Initiative]

I like how conveniantly everyone forgets that Turner practically led the league in YPC during preseason.

He is just fine...he just has been bottled up a bit early on. He will be fine...which just need to be more consistent offensively. The fumbles do need to stop though, that shiite is gettin old quick.

I like how everyone forgets preseason doesn't count and teams run vanilla defenses

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

I guess teams don't commit to stopping Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson, two of last year's rushing leaders. Because they are still having their ways with defenses.

Here's the difference:

Peterson looks to be well on his way to being one of the better backs in the history of RBs. Michael Turner is not anywhere near his level of talent. I would never expect him to be.

Chris Johnson broke two long rushes which is blatantly skewing his rushing statistics 3 weeks into the season. Without Johnson's two long runs (57 and 91) his totals are a lot more pedestrian. Actually if you take those rushes away his YPC drops to around 3 and his total yardage drops to about 200 yards.

This doesnt mean those runs didnt count...because they obviously did. But Mike hasnt had the luxury of playing the types of run defenses that give up those types of runs and at this point, those two runs are HUGE in determining his YPC.

Im disappointed with the way Mike is running the ball but not enough to through reason out the window. As the offense evolves he will become more effective. He's still in the top 10 in rushing and thats with a scheme that is much more interested in ball control, dive type plays.

[The Vent King]

Of all msgbs in the world do u actually think we are not aware of what Turner has or has not done? Yes, there were a total of a whopping TWO less than stellar games for the ONE year Turner has set your bar so high for him for two out of three games but we won two out of those three games so what is the point? While you're so quick to say Chris Johnson is running thru defenses, his team has NOT WON ONE of those games yet. Its like pointing out Jordan scored 63 points but they freaking lost so who cares? Its been ONLY three games buddy with one of those games (105 yds/TD) being nice, and we have a winning record so I do not understand- are you more interested in stats or wins? I BET C Johnson would trade those stats in for a "W" right about now. And if you're comparing what Turner is doing to A.P.- please stop cause no one in the entire league is in the rarefied air that cat is in, to compare Turner to that is beyond unfair and illogical. When Turner's lack of production is causing us to go on three game losing streaks, then pointing something like this out might have merit, but NOT while there is THIRTEEN games left and the Falcons are have a winning record. Two bad games does not give merit to acting as if the dude is dead, "falling", or whatever it is your trying to say already.

[Dharma Initiative]

Of all msgbs in the world do u actually think we are not aware of what Turner has or has not done? Yes, there were a total of a whopping TWO less than stellar games for the ONE year Turner has set your bar so high for him for two out of three games but we won two out of those three games so what is the point? While you're so quick to say Chris Johnson is running thru defenses, his team has NOT WON ONE of those games yet. Its like pointing out Jordan scored 63 points but they freaking lost so who cares? Its been ONLY three games buddy with one of those games (105 yds/TD) being nice, and we have a winning record so I do not understand- are you more interested in stats or wins? I BET C Johnson would trade those stats in for a "W" right about now. And if you're comparing what Turner is doing to A.P.- please stop cause no one in the entire league is in the rarefied air that cat is in, to compare Turner to that is beyond unfair and illogical. When Turner's lack of production is causing us to go on three game losing streaks, then pointing something like this out might have merit, but NOT while there is THIRTEEN games left and the Falcons are have a winning record. Two bad games does not give merit to acting as if the dude is dead, "falling", or whatever it is your trying to say already.

105 yards on 28 carries is not a good game. That's a less than stellar average.

[Dharma Initiative]

Here's the difference:

Peterson looks to be well on his way to being one of the better backs in the history of RBs. Michael Turner is not anywhere near his level of talent. I would never expect him to be.

Chris Johnson broke two long rushes which is blatantly skewing his rushing statistics 3 weeks into the season. Without Johnson's two long runs (57 and 91) his totals are a lot more pedestrian. Actually if you take those rushes away his YPC drops to around 3 and his total yardage drops to about 200 yards.

This doesnt mean those runs didnt count...because they obviously did. But Mike hasnt had the luxury of playing the types of run defenses that give up those types of runs and at this point, those two runs are HUGE in determining his YPC.

Im disappointed with the way Mike is running the ball but not enough to through reason out the window. As the offense evolves he will become more effective. He's still in the top 10 in rushing and thats with a scheme that is much more interested in ball control, dive type plays.

You can't just remove long runs like they didn't happen. Turner built his total up last year with a big run every game. The yards still count, the TD's after them still count.

Turner hasn't broken a good run yet this season. Don't bend the stats so they fit your argument.

[The Vent King]

105 yards on 28 carries is not a good game. That's a less than stellar average.

Its not less than stellar if we won. Whats the point of applauding a stellar stat performance in a loss? Is that what you're doing bringing up Chris Johnson's name? Did you NOT read my Jordan reference? All the yds in the world don't mean squat if you lose. You hear players themselves say that all the time. If all a guy did was get a one yard TD that helped a team win, I KNOW any player would take that over 197 yds rushing, 87 yds rcv and two TDs in a game they lost any day.

[Dharma Initiative]

Its not less than stellar if we won. Whats the point of applauding a stellar stat performance in a loss? Is that what you're doing bringing up Chris Johnson's name? Did you NOT read my Jordan reference? All the yds in the world don't mean squat if you lose. You hear players themselves say that all the time. If all a guy did was get a one yard TD that helped a team win, I KNOW any player would take that over 197 yds rushing, 87 yds rcv and two TDs in a game they lost any day.

If the RB gets the yards and points then they are doing their part. Win or lose, Turner isn't contributing much of anything right now.

[The Vent King]

If the RB gets the yards and points then they are doing their part. Win or lose, Turner isn't contributing much of anything right now.

Teams game planning to stop a guy they have on film that finished 2nd in MVP voting and in yds rushing committing all their efforts in making sure he doesn't do to them what they saw on said film is contributing because it opens things up for everyone else when they are stacking the line and committing eight in the box worrying about him. When the rest of the "team" on offense starts making them pay for that, it will all balance back out in Turner's favor. That's how it works in football, it's not always about the stat sheet. Just because he isn't so called "contributing" in the way you understand it now, doesn't mean he isn't contributing in some way. It's not like we're setting the league on fire and winning on passing and especially defense alone. Turner HAS to be contributing something or we would be 0-3 and losing instead of 2-1 and winning.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

You can't just remove long runs like they didn't happen. Turner built his total up last year with a big run every game. The yards still count, the TD's after them still count.

Turner hasn't broken a good run yet this season. Don't bend the stats so they fit your argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size

Until you grasp this, we probably shouldnt continue this discussion.

Lets address it at the end of the year. If things dont even out substantially you can gladly quote this and say "told ya so"

[Dharma Initiative]

Teams game planning to stop a guy they have on film that finished 2nd in MVP voting and in yds rushing committing all their efforts in making sure he doesn't do to them what they saw on said film is contributing because it opens things up for everyone else when they are stacking the line and committing eight in the box worrying about him. When the rest of the "team" on offense starts making them pay for that, it will all balance back out in Turner's favor. That's how it works in football, it's not always about the stat sheet. Just because he isn't so called "contributing" in the way you understand it now, doesn't mean he isn't contributing in some way. It's not like we're setting the league on fire and winning on passing and especially defense alone. Turner HAS to be contributing something or we would be 0-3 and losing instead of 2-1 and winning.

So then if Turner is contributing and making us 2-1, what is Chris Johnson doing?

We haven't had a very good passing game yet either, even though Turner is supposed to be making the defense stack the box and get beat through the air.

[kevykev21]

We haven't had a very good passing game yet either, even though Turner is supposed to be making the defense stack the box and get beat through the air.

Well there you have it. The offense isn't passing well so that's Turner's fault too.

What a bum.

[The_ATL]

Turner wasn't really all that great against good run stopping teams last season either.