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zigg zagg

is vick a better qb than eli manning?

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I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on those "facts" if I were you! :lol:

I already knew he couldn't provide that "fact". lol

So he tried to side-step with some numbers from that last year Vick played, only to get proven wrong YET AGAIN.

But he's very persistent, so I know he won't give up that easy.

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If that isnt enough fact for you then I dont know what to say. The subtitle says "best running qb ever." After watching that package of highlights, I noticed that Mora mainly called plays that let him do what he wanted to do. He didnt even take time to give WR a chance to get open, just took off. Is this package enough fact for you

Challenger. :lol:

So you are concluding that Vick ALWAYS ran when his first option was covered, correct?

Do you stand by that statement?

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Challenger. :lol:

So you are concluding that Vick ALWAYS ran when his first option was covered, correct?

Do you stand by that statement?

Based on that one video I would say 85% of the time. Sure he threw the ball sometimes but he did nothing impressive as far as passing. Running is not a QB's job. The only time he had a good game passing the ball was when he wanted to silence the critics and he even said that himself after those 3 games :lol::lol::lol:

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I have another video where the ESPN anchor starts by saying Vick averaged more yards per carry than pass attempt. Give me just a second

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One more thing I just remembered. He didnt even know how to slide. But here is a top 10 highlight of him from college and nfl. Note, there is only 1 non-running play

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Based on that one video I would say 85% of the time. Sure he threw the ball sometimes but he did nothing impressive as far as passing. Running is not a QB's job. The only time he had a good game passing the ball was when he wanted to silence the critics and he even said that himself after those 3 games :lol::lol::lol:

Managing the game is the QB's job. We're you saying the same to Young, Cunningham, and even Elway? With that in mind, someone should've told Elway that he was suppose to throw the ball, not run it in for the game-winning TD to win the SB. :lol:

So now you are switching from ALWAYS to 85% of the time. You are doing some serious reaching as you can't display this to prove your stance on the matter.

But here's a lil clipping of Vick PASSING THE BALL. You know, throwing with accuracy, throwing to spots where the Wrs has to make a play on the ball, checking all of his reads, etc.

All the stuff you and others claimed that he DOESN'T do at all.

Enjoy. Link

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Managing the game is the QB's job. We're you saying the same to Young, Cunningham, and even Elway? With that in mind, someone should've told Elway that he was suppose to throw the ball, not run it in for the game-winning TD to win the SB. :lol:

So now you are switching from ALWAYS to 85% of the time. You are doing some serious reaching as you can't display this to prove your stance on the matter.

But here's a lil clipping of Vick PASSING THE BALL. You know, throwing with accuracy, throwing to spots where the Wrs has to make a play on the ball, checking all of his reads, etc.

All the stuff you and others claimed that he DOESN'T do at all.

Enjoy. Link

lol we posted that same video at the same time. But you seriously cant compare Vick to Young, Cunningham and Elway. Those QB's were successful passing the ball, not just running. But yeah I switched to 85%, figured I would give him a little credit. But you Vick fans are trying your best to make him a great QB and he's not. You do not have to rush for 50+ yards a game to consider yourself great. Great QB's are the ones that win games with their arm. Show me a team that won a championship with a QB who scrambled more than he passed

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lol we posted that same video at the same time. But you seriously cant compare Vick to Young, Cunningham and Elway. Those QB's were successful passing the ball, not just running. But yeah I switched to 85%, figured I would give him a little credit. But you Vick fans are trying your best to make him a great QB and he's not. You do not have to rush for 50+ yards a game to consider yourself great. Great QB's are the ones that win games with their arm. Show me a team that won a championship with a QB who scrambled more than he passed

He's the best the Falcons ever had, especially considering what he had to work with.

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Sparky eh? How cute. :rolleyes:

No need to get into name-calling, especially when you're giving above the surface "stats". So let's break it down the last season Vick played(2006), team by team, shall we:

New Orleans: Isn't this one the game post-Katrina to where as the TEAM stunk up as a whole? 90 second into the game, they blocked a punt and recovered it in the end zone for a TD. Alge Crumpler dropped a sure TD pass in the end zone with no one around him in the first quarter. Emotionally the TEAM was overwhelmed in all aspects as we were down 14-3 in the first Qtr. There was no way we were going to recover from that. At home, Vick rushed for 166 yrds due to the fact that the WRs, including Crump, were dropping the ball continously(5 key drops). Remember the hail mary Brees threw in which DHall(stupid) didn't go try to knock the ball down. Roddy even drop that pass that hit him in the chest. But of course, you would look at that "stopping" Vick. lolol

Tampa Bay: Lol, you really don't know what you are talking about with this one. First game against Tampa, The Falcons rushed for 306. Vick only had to do little passing, but was efficent with completing 66%. Rushing: "Vick picked up at least 12 yards on eight of his 14 carries and averaging more than 9 yards per running play. In the second game, Vick was effective throwing(60%) even though it was Griffith who stole the show when Dunn went down. Again, where's your proof of Vick being "shut down". lol That's two of the teams so far I have shown you that "didn't stop Vick". lol Now let's move on to Carolina..

Carolina: Hmmmmm.... Vick throws for 2 TD and we had 252 yards rushing where Vick was used a decoy of the bootleg. No need to comment anymore about Vick being "dominated" in that game. :lol: In the second game of the season, The Panthers had the ball for 41 minutes, 47 seconds compared to 18 minutes, 13 seconds for the Falcons in a game in which the Panties would line up a RB with no QB in the backfield and we still couldn't stop 'em. Yeah, Vick was getting dominated by Carolina running game since they had him figured out because we all know that he had a hard time stopping the Panties RBs. :lol: They had two backs who had over 20 carries a piece. There are only 60 minutes in a game, and Carolina had the ball for almost 50 of it and this conclude the PANTIES had Vick figured out and not our sorry-excuse of a run defense? :huh: :mellow: :rolleyes::o<_<

Boy, you try TOO hard.

These are the FACTS, not your emotional disdain thoughts of Vick, in which were proven wrong YET AGAIN.

An in-depth analysis of each the game and another L in your column, Flipper.

WOW I'm impressed you proved the point that he was a better runner then passer and I thank you for that

from the Tampa Gm you comment not mine "

."Vick picked up at least 12 yards on eight of his 14 carries and averaging more than 9 yards per running play "

from the Carolina gm again you comments not mine "Yeah, Vick was getting dominated by Carolina running game since they had him figured out"

You asked "I'm waitling for you two to tell me what teams had Vick figured out." and by your own words you answer the question DUH

You proved that he was a running back who played the QB position thanks great job. :lol:

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Here is a perfect example of Steve young being successful passing, not just running

1998

4170 passing yards

36 TD

12 Int

454 Rushing yards

6 TD.

1992

3465 passing yards

25 TD

7 Int

537 rushing yards

4 TD

It took Young 15 seasons to establish 4000 rushing yards

Took Vick 6 seasons and he has 3859 rushing yards. Vick never had a completion % over 56. 2002 was Vick's best season, I'll give him that.

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He's the best the Falcons ever had, especially considering what he had to work with.

So you saying Chris Chandler and the other guys were slackers. Vick could have had help if he really wanted it man. And that salary played a huge part of not being able to sign players to help him. You guys may not realize that but it really did. But I wont get back into that. He also couldve done more to improve himself and his offense, like taking practice and offseason workouts more serious, which is step 1

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WOW I'm impressed you proved the point that he was a better runner then passer and I thank you for that

from the Tampa Gm you comment not mine "

."Vick picked up at least 12 yards on eight of his 14 carries and averaging more than 9 yards per running play "

from the Carolina gm again you comments not mine "Yeah, Vick was getting dominated by Carolina running game since they had him figured out"

You asked "I'm waiting for you two to tell me what teams had Vick figured out." and by your own words you answer the question DUH

You proved that he was a running back who played the QB position thanks great job. :lol:

Can't take your lost without spinning eh?

Feeling dizzy yet?

Where's your rebuttal of Vick being figured out and stopped in his last year playing?

All these other emotional responses you're given are unnecessary.

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Here is a perfect example of Steve young being successful passing, not just running

1998

4170 passing yards

36 TD

12 Int

454 Rushing yards

6 TD.

1992

3465 passing yards

25 TD

7 Int

537 rushing yards

4 TD

It took Young 15 seasons to establish 4000 rushing yards

Took Vick 6 seasons and he has 3859 rushing yards. Vick never had a completion % over 56. 2002 was Vick's best season, I'll give him that.

Yeah, let's compare Vick stats to Steve Young's last great years. :rolleyes:

If you want a fair comparison, let's do young first 6 years stats.

Again, since you feel that it's the QB job only to throw the ball, shouldn't Elway have thrown the ball since he is a QB, not a RB, in that SB game against Green Bay?

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Yeah, let's compare Vick stats to Steve Young's last great years. :rolleyes:

If you want a fair comparison, let's do young first 6 years stats.

Again, since you feel that it's the QB job only to throw the ball, shouldn't Elway have thrown the ball since he is a QB, not a RB, in that SB game against Green Bay?

He won the game with one scramble and you are comparing that LMAO. Big Ben did the same and I dont see you mentioning that. I did Youngs next to last season and a season in his early years. Boy you Vick fans trip me out man.

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I got to run now. If this thread is still on the front page later in the week when I get my off day, I would love to discuss this more. Til then, later man

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He won the game with one scramble and you are comparing that LMAO. Big Ben did the same and I dont see you mentioning that. I did Youngs next to last season and a season in his early years. Boy you Vick fans trip me out man.

You said that it's not the QB job to run, it's to just throw the ball.

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Can't take your lost without spinning eh?

Feeling dizzy yet?

Where's your rebuttal of Vick being figured out and stopped in his last year playing?

All these other emotional responses you're given are unnecessary.

DUDE your a joke. you want a rebuttal of what. You post three games from the whole year and in two of them you admit they haD him figured out. Then you come back at me and make a stupid statement like "Can't take your lost without spinning eh? Feeling dizzy yet?" You got had from your own post and don't want to admit it.

Your a typical Vick supporter he never did anything wrong it was always the WR's dropping passes or the O-line not blocking. WHAT A JOKE.

Trying to hold an intelligent conversation with you is like talking to a 2 year old nothing said makes sense.

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DUDE your a joke. you want a rebuttal of what. You post three games from the whole year and in two of them you admit they haD him figured out. Then you come back at me and make a stupid statement like "Can't take your lost without spinning eh? Feeling dizzy yet?" You got had from your own post and don't want to admit it.

Your a typical Vick supporter he never did anything wrong it was always the WR's dropping passes or the O-line not blocking. WHAT A JOKE.

Trying to hold an intelligent conversation with you is like talking to a 2 year old nothing said makes sense.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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I don't understand the point of this thread. Vick had the biggest contract in history before he got in trouble. Now he has missed two years so he is going to have to show something before he gets big money again.

What is the point of the thread, that the Giants paid Eli way too much money? Sure, I can agree on that.

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Lol at Junior & FF thinking that they are speaking logic and truth.

I'm waitling for you two to tell me what teams had Vick figured out.

I'm waiting for you two to tell me if Vick was so bad of QB then why doesn't he have Eric Crouch-at-Nebraska like numbers since he was always running with the ball, "assuming" that he "always" took offwhen his first option was covered.

I'm waiting for you two to show me why this man has a winning record when we never had a top ten defense(maybe in '94).

Let's start with that logic and truth and go from there, not your wishful thinking that comes from other talking heads on ESPN and the AJC.

Yeah, let's display some facts.

Well here is my argument that Vick did not do a great job in 06. A QBs job is to lead his team down the field and score points. The Falcons finished 25th in scoring in 2006, and scored 14 points or less in 8 games. A team has little chance to win a game when they score 14 points. For example, the Falcons only held two teams below 14 points last year, and they held KC to 14 exactly. But the Falcons still won 11 games.

Vick's job wasn't to throw TDs or gain rushing yards. His job was to make sure the offense scored each and every game. He didn't do that as well as the quarterback of 24 other teams in 2006. And that is a fact.

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Eli Manning has agreed to a six-year $97 million contract with the Giants, making him the highest-paid NFL player. He is widely regarded as one of the league's premier quarterbacks.

Michael Vick, if he ever manages to find a team, will likely sign a contract for less than $1 million. Lately, he has been widely criticized as a "mediocre-to-poor" quarterback.

So what is the difference between this $100 million quarterback and this $1 million quarterback? I believe we can sum it up under two items. Dogfighting and a David Tyree catch.

Michael Vick participated in disgusting criminal activities that have kept him away from the game of football. Eli Manning had his catch miraculously hauled in by David Tyree, leading to an improbable victory and a Super Bowl ring. (If Tyree doesn't hold onto the ball, is Eli getting this contract?)

Clearly Eli has made better decisions and has far more to show for his efforts. But I want to keep this comparison on the field. So lets put these two very different paths aside for the moment and look at the numbers.

In five years, Eli Manning has a 56 percent completion rate, 6.4 yard passing average, 200 passing yards per game, 98 TD, 74 Int, 120 sacks, and a 76.1 QB rating.

In six years, Michael Vick has a 54 percent completion rate, 6.7 yard passing average, 155 passing yards per game, 71 TD, 52 Int, 187 sacks, and a 75.7 QB rating.

The statistics are nearly a wash, from the touchdown-to-interception ratio, to the completion percentage, to the quarterback rating. The stats do show Eli being sacked significantly fewer times (though this is, at least in part, a reflection on Vick's tendency to run) and producing more passing touchdowns in less time.

The pure passing statistics are very close, but we'll give the edge to Eli. But what of the running game? This is Michael Vick, after all, and the running game is an integral part of what he brings to the quarterback position.

In five years, Eli Manning has a 2.0 yard rushing average, 2.9 rushing yards per game, and three rushing TD. In 2005 he rushed for a career-high 80 yards.

In six years, Michael Vick has a 7.3 yard rushing average, 50.2 rushing yards per game, and 21 rushing TD. In 2006 he rushed for a record 1,039 yards.

Couple Michael Vick's record rushing stats with his passing stats, and (I think) the numbers show that he is the better quarterback. He has about the same passing ability, but far-superior running ability.

We should also look at the talent that each player had surrounding them. In his years with the Giants, Eli Manning has played behind an offensive line that has included Pro-bowlers Shaun O'hara and Chris Snee. He has handed the ball off to Pro-bowlers Tiki Barber and (FB) Madison Hedgecock.

He has thrown to the ball to Pro-bowlers Jeremy Shockey and AP NFL All-Pro selection Plaxico Burress.

In his years with the Falcons, Michael Vick has handed the ball off to Pro-bowler Warrick Dunn and has thrown the ball to Pro-Bowlers Algae Crumpler and Roddy White.

It is a very wide barrier that separates the current state of Michael Vick's career from Eli Manning's. But there's not much separation in their ability on the field. Neither is a great passer. Vick is a great runner. I give the edge to Vick.

On the field, anyway.

Look at it this way.

Vick was making more money than Manning and Brady.

Was Vick a better QB than the two future Hall of Famers I just mentioned?

No. Being the highest paid doesn't mean you're the best.... just that you have a REALLY good agent.

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Yeah, let's compare Vick stats to Steve Young's last great years. :rolleyes:

If you want a fair comparison, let's do young first 6 years stats.

Again, since you feel that it's the QB job only to throw the ball, shouldn't Elway have thrown the ball since he is a QB, not a RB, in that SB game against Green Bay?

Young was behind Montana 4 out of the first 6 years

but we can compare his first 6 years in which he was the starter

83 Games 1581 Completions 2414 Attempts 65.5 Comp % 19456 yards 134 TD's 65 INT's 96.81QB Rating 52 - 31 Record

But that's screwed up to because Vick technically only started for four years

So I will take Vick's four years and compare them to Young's four worst years as the majority starter and see what we get

52 Games 1030 Completions 1643 Attempts 62.65 Comp % 12062 Yards 78 TD's 42 INT's 89.025 Rating 30 - 22 Record

61 Games 830 Completions 1517 Attempts 54.8 Comp % 10125 Yards 65 TD's 46 INT's 77.12 Rating 34 - 26 - 1 Record

Conclusion Vick's 4 years as the majority starter for the Falcons was worse than Young's four worst years as a starter which included a 2-12 Tampa Bay team that stunk the league up

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Young was behind Montana 4 out of the first 6 years

but we can compare his first 6 years in which he was the starter

83 Games 1581 Completions 2414 Attempts 65.5 Comp % 19456 yards 134 TD's 65 INT's 96.81QB Rating 52 - 31 Record

But that's screwed up to because Vick technically only started for four years

So I will take Vick's four years and compare them to Young's four worst years as the majority starter and see what we get

52 Games 1030 Completions 1643 Attempts 62.65 Comp % 12062 Yards 78 TD's 42 INT's 89.025 Rating 30 - 22 Record

61 Games 830 Completions 1517 Attempts 54.8 Comp % 10125 Yards 65 TD's 46 INT's 77.12 Rating 34 - 26 - 1 Record

Conclusion Vick's 4 years as the majority starter for the Falcons was worse than Young's four worst years as a starter which included a 2-12 Tampa Bay team that stunk the league up

you forgot to mention how steve youngs career took a major step for the better when he went to a team that had an nfl caliber offense. jerry rice and terrell owens? compared to roddy white and michael jenkins FRESH OUT OF COLLEGE? to suggest that the team steve young played on was anywhere near as bad as vicks supporting cast is a joke. get real.

i could see if he had a decent wr corps or pro bowlers on the oline. vick wasnt the "best qb ever" but the front office ignored players that would have put the falcons in a better position to win, focusing on character (telling randy moss he was unwanted but drafting jafail anderson)

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