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Aria7

Michael Vick does NOT deserve to return to the NFL and here is why...

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So are you planning to give a speech at U.N. about this or will you just be salty when he gets reinstated despite your displeasure?

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We if you wanna get small the responsibilty of dog fighting was inlaid with the Interstate traficking charges

http://sports.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0824/vicksummary.pdf

And trust me he is definatly paying for it.

(Would like to point out Vick was never charged with killing ANY of the dogs only that he was eventually aware.)

Now we both know that could be bullsht they can't prove but its not that farfetched either. who knows maybe he was't that involved. We're you there? (to clarify I wasn't either but thats what in the fine print)

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We if you wanna get small the responsibilty of dog fighting was inlaid with the Interstate traficking charges

http://sports.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0824/vicksummary.pdf

And trust me he is definatly paying for it.

(Would like to point out Vick was never charged with killing ANY of the dogs only that he was eventually aware.)

Now we both know that could be bullsht they can't prove but its not that farfetched either. who knows maybe he was't that involved. We're you there? (to clarify I wasn't either but thats what in the fine print)

If you really want to get technical Vick is 100% USDA Certified "DOG KILLER":

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?i...e=ESPNHeadlines

Updated: November 22, 2008, 11:34 AM ET

In Virginia facing state dogfighting charges, Vick's involvement revealedComment Email Print Share By Kelly Naqi

ESPN.com

Archive

Suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick placed family pet dogs into a ring and his trained pit bulls "caused major injuries" to the pets at Bad Newz Kennels, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture report released on Friday.

The 17-page report, prepared by the USDA's inspector general-investigations division, provided some new details on Vick's participation in Bad Newz Kennels, the dogfighting operation financed by Vick and formed along with his friends Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

Michael Vick, arriving to federal court in August 2007, is isolated at the Riverside Regional Jail in Virginia to avoid disruptions. The report, dated Aug. 28, 2008, says, "Vick, Peace and Phillips thought it was funny to watch the pit bull dogs belonging to Bad Newz Kennels injure or kill the other dogs." The report has names and phrases redacted in order to protect the anonymity of certain individuals who cooperated with investigators.

The report also states in mid-April of 2007, Vick, Peace and Phillips hung approximately three dogs who did not perform well in a "rolling session," which indicates the readiness of a dog to fight. According to the report, the three men hung the dogs "by placing a nylon cord over a 2 X 4 that was nailed to two trees located next to the big shed. They also drowned approximately three dogs by putting the dogs' heads in a five gallon bucket of water."

Vick initially told authorities "while he assisted Phillips and Peace in the killing of the dogs, he did not actually kill the dogs," but "helped Phillips toss several dogs to the side," according to the report.

However, the report says Vick took back that statement when he failed a polygraph test. "Vick failed the examination as it related to the killing of the dogs in April 2007. Ultimately, Vick recanted his previous statement wherein he said he was not actually involved in the killing of six to eight dogs. ... Vick admitted taking part in the actual hanging of the dogs."

Vick, the report says, paid someone whose name was redacted $100 to dig two graves for the dog carcasses. "Based on past circumstances," the report says, "Phillips and Peace did not like [Vick] to do any type of work that could injure him and jeopardize his NFL contract." When the person who dug the graves refused to bury the animals, the report says, Vick, Peace and Phillips buried the dogs themselves.

Vick is serving a 23-month sentence in a minimum-security federal prison camp in Leavenworth, Kan., on a conspiracy charge relating to the interstate dogfighting operation he helped run on a property he owned in Surry County, Va. Vick is scheduled to be released on July 20, 2009.

Vick is currently being held in protective custody at Riverside Regional Jail in Hopewell, Va., until his hearing on Tuesday in Surry County Circuit Court to plead guilty to two state charges related to dogfighting.

The state charges -- one count of torturing and killing dogs and one count of promoting dogfighting -- each carry a maximum prison term of five years. But under the terms of his plea agreement, Vick is expected to receive a three-year suspended prison term and a $2,500 fine (which would be suspended if he pays court costs and maintains good behavior for four years).

By resolving the pending state charges, Vick would qualify to participate in the Federal Bureau of Prisons re-entry program, which could enable him to serve part of the remainder of his federal sentence in a halfway house.

According to the Bureau of Prisons, in 2007, for inmates who qualified, the average length of their time served at a halfway house was three months.

Vick, who was once the NFL's highest-paid player, has been washing pots and pans for 12 cents an hour, according to Falcons owner Arthur Blank, who has said he's kept in touch with Vick through written correspondence.

Blank said Vick also told him he's passing the time and staying in shape by playing quarterback for both sides during prison football games. Vick, 28, is still under contract with the Falcons.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell suspended Vick indefinitely without pay on Aug. 24, 2007, and has said he will review the status of Vick's suspension following the conclusion of Vick's legal proceedings.

Vick's lawyers, the NFL and the Falcons were not immediately available for comment.

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What else does the man have to do? I definitely do not want him to play for the Falcons again, but he does deserve another chance.

He lost everything he had and is currently bankrupt. He spent almost two years of his life in prison.

He did his time for what he did and it is no reason why he should receive further penalty. It is absolutely stupid to compare a man's death to a animals death. Stallworth's decision to drive drunk, was imo, a worse crime. You cannot compare a dog's life to a Human's life.

If you are willing to forgive him, you should be willing to forgive Vick. I do and have moved on.

Not saying that he didnt do time, but he didnt serve 1 minute for animal cruelty

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Michael Vick did not just make a mistake. A mistake is when you forget to turn off the lights or get into an accident. Saying that throwing helpess animals in a cage to rip each other to shreds is a a mistake is a qualification for the lack of humanity people have for other living beings and how entertainment is such a high priority in thier lives. Michael Vick didnt accidently electrocute, slam, torture and god knows what else did to those canines by accident. He didnt trip over fido and accidently kill it. Michael Vick PLANNED it all out, and scolded his peers in keeping his identity a secret for his cruel intentions. He planned the activities LATE at night behind closed doors because HE KNEW what he was doing was wrong. He lied to Arthur Blank, the fans, the media and the *cough* the authorities because he didn' want to get caught. He only admitted to what he did AFTER the fact.

I do not know about you, but a man's word is his bond. If he is not honest, there is NO reason to believe anything he says given his past history. Now for people thinking that "thier just animals"... all people, ALL PEOPLE are part of the animal kingdom, and ALL invertabrates FEAL pain. Michael Vick did not have dog fights because he needed money, not that is a valid excuse; But because he enjoyed the torture of small creatures and he had blood lust. This is the man who finds a personal relationship with an imaginary friend when he is about to go to jail. In law, justice is to the DAMAGED party. Society, was not the damaged party. The charges that he 'paid' in jail were COMPLETELY commercial in nature and had NOTHING to do with hurting animals. It was for BETTING and TRANSPORTING across and in state lines. They didnt give a crap about those animals. Society never had a debt. The animals did, and that debt can never be paid. Now for you folks think this is just about some PETA BS, you are wrong. Animal abuse leads to people abuse.

The so called 'getting his life on track' is nothing more than a public relations scheme. It would'nt matter if he was black or white either. Cruelty is cruelty. Now for those who try to say what about car accident that donte stallworh had that killed someone...Donte as stupid and as careless as he was, did not plan out the death of another human being or take pleasure killing of that life. If Michael Vick honestly ran over a dog by accident, even if it was carelessness, the people tho angry would have forgiven him much eaiser. Being purposely cruel is what makes a man infamous for good reason. A callous heart is the cause of societies problems; The apathy of the cruel only makes it that much worse.. albeit human or any OTHER animal. -_-

And for those of you really only concerned with the football portion. Michael Vick lied to his own peers which would make him INCAPABLE of being a TEAM leader as a QB. He was a great athelete but not a great football player, and certainly devoid of being a great man. Did he put butts in seats?... Yes. But that is the past. The risk reward factor for any team dumb enough to take him would only alienate fans to that potential team as well as his rustiness of being off the field would quiete honestly make him a liabilty. Plus what team wants all that negative attention from a athelete that will probably be a backup. For those in love in the wild cat formation. The wild cat is a fad right now and is NOT as huge as people think. It threw off some teams because people havent seen it in a while. Big deal. Would any team want all that negativity for a player who would be on the field for say 25% playing time. LOL No one is going to have him be thier first string QB, he has proven not to be bright enough... and he isnt tough enough to handle RB nor does he have the skill to play Wr. Oh lets not forget that he LIED to the coaches, team owner AND the league commissioner. Yeah that what I want on my team. :lol:

I agree about the use of the term “mistake.” Vick did not make a mistake (an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.) Vick made bad decisions that cost him his reputation and his freedom. He did things that he purposely hid b/c he knew he would be in big trouble if it ever came to the light of day.

That being said, I think he deserves the chance to play football again. I don’t think there should be any lifetime ban on him coming back. If the commissioner feels that Vick is at a point where he is ready to come back to the NFL, then so be it.

I had a dog growing up, but I don’t consider myself a big dog lover. I recognize that what Vick did was cruel and reprehensible. If my child ever did something like that, I would be outraged, concerned and embarrassed. That being said, I really don’t like double standards and the way rules are applied. I’m sorry, but human life is at the top of the value chain in my mind.

Everybody knows about Leonard Little, irresponsible behavior (drinking and driving) and a woman is dead b/c of his actions. He was allowed to play in the NFL and proved that he didn’t learn anything b/c he received another dui some years later. He is still in the NFL today. I don’t see how anyone could say Vick should not be allowed to play football again if Leonard Little is allowed. I understand there was a different commissioner when Little had his problems, but there has been no policy change in terms of what you get banned for.

In my opinion, negligence is not an excuse. I’m part of the corporate world and people get fired b/c they violate a policy they don’t know about or intend to violate. Corporations get sued when they don’t exercise “reasonable care” when delivering safe products to the public, products that can kill or harm. If the system we live under can punish people for negligence, and yes it is in a lesser way than when there is intent, Little, Vick and Stallworth will all face penalties. When comparing Vick and Little, Vick faced way harsher penalties and you can rack that up to intent. I don’t understand at this point why someone would think he should be banned for life. He can come back to the NFL, but not to the Falcons. This organization ha moved on.

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Pacman Jones shot a guy and he got to come back...just sayin...I dont want Vick in Atl but I still love to watch him play.

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I agree about the use of the term “mistake.” Vick did not make a mistake (an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.) Vick made bad decisions that cost him his reputation and his freedom. He did things that he purposely hid b/c he knew he would be in big trouble if it ever came to the light of day.

That being said, I think he deserves the chance to play football again. I don’t think there should be any lifetime ban on him coming back. If the commissioner feels that Vick is at a point where he is ready to come back to the NFL, then so be it.

I had a dog growing up, but I don’t consider myself a big dog lover. I recognize that what Vick did was cruel and reprehensible. If my child ever did something like that, I would be outraged, concerned and embarrassed. That being said, I really don’t like double standards and the way rules are applied. I’m sorry, but human life is at the top of the value chain in my mind.

Everybody knows about Leonard Little, irresponsible behavior (drinking and driving) and a woman is dead b/c of his actions. He was allowed to play in the NFL and proved that he didn’t learn anything b/c he received another dui some years later. He is still in the NFL today. I don’t see how anyone could say Vick should not be allowed to play football again if Leonard Little is allowed. I understand there was a different commissioner when Little had his problems, but there has been no policy change in terms of what you get banned for.

In my opinion, negligence is not an excuse. I’m part of the corporate world and people get fired b/c they violate a policy they don’t know about or intend to violate. Corporations get sued when they don’t exercise “reasonable care” when delivering safe products to the public, products that can kill or harm. If the system we live under can punish people for negligence, and yes it is in a lesser way than when there is intent, Little, Vick and Stallworth will all face penalties. When comparing Vick and Little, Vick faced way harsher penalties and you can rack that up to intent. I don’t understand at this point why someone would think he should be banned for life. He can come back to the NFL, but not to the Falcons. This organization ha moved on.

Saying that human life is the top of value IS a double standard. What your saying is that even tho killing animals is bad, it is not as bad as killing humans. THAT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD. What I am saying is NOT a double standard becuase all life is life, human or otherwise. How would you feel if vick did the same thing to human beings instead of dogs. So if vick starved humans, so they would be hungry, beat them so they would be aggressive, put the trained fighting humans in a pit of small children so they could kill those children in order to train them to be killing machines, betted on those trained humans to kill other trained humans.. An what if those trained killing machines got loose to kill other humans If that was the case, should vick be reinstated? Would you say well, he only killed a few humans but so what, mike vick deserves another chance. Would you say that was simply bad judgement, dont judge him so harsly. If he did the same to over 30 humans that a couple of years in jail and some money would be justice to the humans that he killed and tortured. No you would be outraged and saying he doesnt deserve a chance and that he should be locked up forever, or possible put on death row. Only differernce is that to YOU its just dogs man, and in your mind that doesnt count for much. Come on man. You are simply picking and choosing which life you value and which you dont.

The thinking that humans are better than any other animal is wishful thinking. Human may have th intelligence for technology, that other animals do not have... but you dont see the rest of the animal kingdom killing each other for pleasure, religion, and politics. This is purely a human endeavor. People who say that humans are better only want to imagine this fantasy as an excuse for some kind of superiority. Racism or speciesism, are both delusions of the same magnatude. Wishful thinking does not make it the opposite.

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Saying that human life is the top of value IS a double standard. What your saying is that even tho killing animals is bad, it is not as bad as killing humans. THAT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD. What I am saying is NOT a double standard becuase all life is life, human or otherwise. How would you feel if vick did the same thing to human beings instead of dogs. So if vick starved humans, so they would be hungry, beat them so they would be aggressive, put the trained fighting humans in a pit of small children so they could kill those children in order to train them to be killing machines, betted on those trained humans to kill other trained humans.. An what if those trained killing machines got loose to kill other humans If that was the case, should vick be reinstated? Would you say well, he only killed a few humans but so what, mike vick deserves another chance. Would you say that was simply bad judgement, dont judge him so harsly. If he did the same to over 30 humans that a couple of years in jail and some money would be justice to the humans that he killed and tortured. No you would be outraged and saying he doesnt deserve a chance and that he should be locked up forever, or possible put on death row. Only differernce is that to YOU its just dogs man, and in your mind that doesnt count for much. Come on man. You are simply picking and choosing which life you value and which you dont.

The thinking that humans are better than any other animal is wishful thinking. Human may have th intelligence for technology, that other animals do not have... but you dont see the rest of the animal kingdom killing each other for pleasure, religion, and politics. This is purely a human endeavor. People who say that humans are better only want to imagine this fantasy as an excuse for some kind of superiority. Racism or speciesism, are both delusions of the same magnatude. Wishful thinking does not make it the opposite.

Apes have been known to kill for social class and sometimes for no reason at all. Is it ok to kill a dog if he is really sick or injured. What if he has the mange and can't get rid of it with help?

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Apes have been known to kill for social class and sometimes for no reason at all. Is it ok to kill a dog if he is really sick or injured. What if he has the mange and can't get rid of it with help?

Michael Vick didnt quickly kill these dogs out of benign insight that they were hurting and therefore because there was no remedy for thier pain, to quickly end thier life than to let them suffer. He was the cause of thier pain to begin with. As for the comments of the apes, apes who freely kill of thier own volition could be equated IF these dogs simply were walking down the street, got in a bloody fight ON THIER OWN, and mike vick seeing the mangled participant provided a mercy kill. LOL this is not the case not even close.... these statements are simply red herrings. what if, what if. we can what if all we want. The facts are the facts and justice was not served. Michael Vick was SUPPOSED to get 5 YEARS for EACH dog tortured and killed. EACH. 30 dogs x 5 is 150. I dont see how 2 years is remotely close to 150. For people saying that they went overboard, are you kidding. The slapped him on the hand and let him off. What he got IS MERCIFUL>. Extremely in Michael Vicks favor. How can you cry that they over did it, when his had a EXTREMELY REDUCED SENTENCE. From 150 years, which is ONLY FOR STATE dog fight charges, to ONLY 2 years. Is that not merciful. He had more mercy shown to him than he did to those dogs. And really the 2 years served were only for betting and transporting. What time did he serve for even one dog being abused. Did he even serve 5 years for even one dog? NOPE. He got less than HALF for 30. Unbelievable. Yet you cry foul.

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Saying that human life is the top of value IS a double standard. What your saying is that even tho killing animals is bad, it is not as bad as killing humans. THAT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD. What I am saying is NOT a double standard becuase all life is life, human or otherwise. How would you feel if vick did the same thing to human beings instead of dogs. So if vick starved humans, so they would be hungry, beat them so they would be aggressive, put the trained fighting humans in a pit of small children so they could kill those children in order to train them to be killing machines, betted on those trained humans to kill other trained humans.. An what if those trained killing machines got loose to kill other humans If that was the case, should vick be reinstated? Would you say well, he only killed a few humans but so what, mike vick deserves another chance. Would you say that was simply bad judgement, dont judge him so harsly. If he did the same to over 30 humans that a couple of years in jail and some money would be justice to the humans that he killed and tortured. No you would be outraged and saying he doesnt deserve a chance and that he should be locked up forever, or possible put on death row. Only differernce is that to YOU its just dogs man, and in your mind that doesnt count for much. Come on man. You are simply picking and choosing which life you value and which you dont.

The thinking that humans are better than any other animal is wishful thinking. Human may have th intelligence for technology, that other animals do not have... but you dont see the rest of the animal kingdom killing each other for pleasure, religion, and politics. This is purely a human endeavor. People who say that humans are better only want to imagine this fantasy as an excuse for some kind of superiority. Racism or speciesism, are both delusions of the same magnatude. Wishful thinking does not make it the opposite.

Not one for bumping Vick posts, but you are going to put animals on the same level as people?

If your mother and her dog was trapped in a burning building, who would you be more interested in rescuing?

Would you be more upset if you ran over a person or a squirrel?

Would you have a hard time deciding between whether to eat a chicken or a person?

Do you eat any kind of meat or eggs?

If Vick did the same thing to children, he would probably have earned the death penalty, or at the very least a life in prison. He probably would have been murdered in prison, or maybe even before he got there. You are so full of S* if you are going to try to tell us you consider animals the exact same in "value" as people. People like you make me sick.

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Not one for bumping Vick posts, but you are going to put animals on the same level as people?

If your mother and her dog was trapped in a burning building, who would you be more interested in rescuing?

Would you be more upset if you ran over a person or a squirrel?

Would you have a hard time deciding between whether to eat a chicken or a person?

Do you eat any kind of meat or eggs?

If Vick did the same thing to children, he would probably have earned the death penalty, or at the very least a life in prison. He probably would have been murdered in prison, or maybe even before he got there. You are so full of S* if you are going to try to tell us you consider animals the exact same in "value" as people. People like you make me sick.

People are animals. If you would have read my posts, all people are animals, but simply of another species. People abuse is animal abuse, just as dog abuse is animal abuse. Just becuase you use the term people to describe a human being does not make a human less of an animal. People like you make me sick when they create a fantasy in thier mind that people are somehow better simply because they have selfish reasons and they are emotionally attached to members of thier own species. Pick up a science book and realise that humans are part of the animal kingdom too. If my mother and my dog were trapped in the same building, and the building was on fire, I would save both if I could and if I could only save one, I would pick the one to whom I could save without getting myself killed. It wouldnt matter if it was my dog or my mother, if I simply ran into the building only to be killed myself; What good would that do?. I would you reason instead of having clouded emotion. If someone ran over a squiral or a human it would be sad in both cases becase THERE IS NO DISTICTION, even if YOU want to so badly IN YOUR OWN MIND create a FALSE DICHOTOMY. Also take into account a personal relationship. Would you care about your friend, albeit human or otherwise, in comparison to a complete stranger? The other false dichotomy that you mentioned are extremely restricted choices that are false....ever hear of veganism, or being a vegitarian, or simply eating outside your species. Do you eat people?

Do you assume that all people are meat eaters simply because you are and you cant fathom people living life outside of the cultural confines of your little world? Even using the whole meat eating facade is that society has measure to humanly kill livestock for consumption. Not a long tattered perpetual abuse of starving, beating cows to kill other cows. What a ridiculous claim. Dude, get a clue.

What you are trying to use is the logic fallicy known as 'appeal to common practise" Here is an example. In africa, many woman have thier vaginas sown shut, or thier clitorus is removed, and because that is part of thier culture therefore genital mutalation is OK. Just because it is a common practice doesnt make it OK. There were many common practices that are wrong, and practicing them by the majority doesnt make it any more correct. As you can plainly see, this type of thinking is ridculous.

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Michael Vick didnt quickly kill these dogs out of benign insight that they were hurting and therefore because there was no remedy for thier pain, to quickly end thier life than to let them suffer. He was the cause of thier pain to begin with. As for the comments of the apes, apes who freely kill of thier own volition could be equated IF these dogs simply were walking down the street, got in a bloody fight ON THIER OWN, and mike vick seeing the mangled participant provided a mercy kill. LOL this is not the case not even close.... these statements are simply red herrings. what if, what if. we can what if all we want. The facts are the facts and justice was not served. Michael Vick was SUPPOSED to get 5 YEARS for EACH dog tortured and killed. EACH. 30 dogs x 5 is 150. I dont see how 2 years is remotely close to 150. For people saying that they went overboard, are you kidding. The slapped him on the hand and let him off. What he got IS MERCIFUL>. Extremely in Michael Vicks favor. How can you cry that they over did it, when his had a EXTREMELY REDUCED SENTENCE. From 150 years, which is ONLY FOR STATE dog fight charges, to ONLY 2 years. Is that not merciful. He had more mercy shown to him than he did to those dogs. And really the 2 years served were only for betting and transporting. What time did he serve for even one dog being abused. Did he even serve 5 years for even one dog? NOPE. He got less than HALF for 30. Unbelievable. Yet you cry foul.

The reason i asked if it was ok to kill them if it was a mercy killing was because we can't do that to humans but it is ok to do it to an animal. There is a difference between us.

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I am a football fan. Playing in the NFL is a priviledge that ALOT of people lose for much LESS. VIck had his chance and he blew it. I was a vick fan, and he was exciting to watch. As much as I am a football fan. I am more of a fan for compassion. Its not that I dont think michael vick doesnt deserve a chance at life. But he does NOT deserve one in the NFL. Sorry game over. He blew it. Let him get a second chance bagging groceries or pumping gas. Then he can help society. :lol:

So he deserves a chance to make money again, just not NFL money. How illogical is that? You all claim he's been punished enough but really you want more by making sure he doesn't make money doing the only thing he is good at. In the large scheme of things, Vick playing ball is FAR less important than coming up with ways to prevent animal cruelty. You should try spending less time venting about someone rights to play football again and spend that energy helping the mistake he made from being committed by others. I bet the dogs would appreciate that. Whats the last 500 page essay (like your post) you wrote to help prevent animal cruelty? Bet you didn't care so much about this until this episode with VIck. Vick playing football again or not isn't going to stop the countless others that are STILL participating in dog fighting stop killing/maiming the dogs they do and isn't that the real issue here? It won't show anyone "hey this is what will be taken from you if you do this" because most dog fighters will never reach that level of playing sports anyway so they'll ignore that b.s. You need to stop taking the PETA approach and try the Humane Society approach and by that I mean PETA turned Vick down cold when he offered to work with them to further the cause against animal cruelty cause they rather protest and spread ill will and negativity than to actually DO something to prevent the animal cruelty like the Humane Society is talking about doing with Vick. If we take all the people who are some vehemently spending energy with their criticism and protest of Vick and his right to play and use that same energy to spread the word against animal cruelty, I BET that would do more wonders against dog fighting than constantly dogging someone who's already done it and been punished and will never be in a position to do it again. That's such a waste of time cause he will be playing again, you can't stop that so you might as well find something else to do.....like coming up with ways to stop dog fighting maybe. That's something you CAN stop.

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So he deserves a chance to make money again, just not NFL money. How illogical is that? You all claim he's been punished enough but really you want more by making sure he doesn't make money doing the only thing he is good at. In the large scheme of things, Vick playing ball is FAR less important than coming up with ways to prevent animal cruelty. You should try spending less time venting about someone rights to play football again and spend that energy helping the mistake he made from being committed by others. I bet the dogs would appreciate that. Whats the last 500 page essay (like your post) you wrote to help prevent animal cruelty? Bet you didn't care so much about this until this episode with VIck. Vick playing football again or not isn't going to stop the countless others that are STILL participating in dog fighting stop killing/maiming the dogs they do and isn't that the real issue here? It won't show anyone "hey this is what will be taken from you if you do this" because most dog fighters will never reach that level of playing sports anyway so they'll ignore that b.s. You need to stop taking the PETA approach and try the Humane Society approach and by that I mean PETA turned Vick down cold when he offered to work with them to further the cause against animal cruelty cause they rather protest and spread ill will and negativity than to actually DO something to prevent the animal cruelty like the Humane Society is talking about doing with Vick. If we take all the people who are some vehemently spending energy with their criticism and protest of Vick and his right to play and use that same energy to spread the word against animal cruelty, I BET that would do more wonders against dog fighting than constantly dogging someone who's already done it and been punished and will never be in a position to do it again. That's such a waste of time cause he will be playing again, you can't stop that so you might as well find something else to do.....like coming up with ways to stop dog fighting maybe. That's something you CAN stop.

This is real easy to comment on.

1. Vick did NOT pay for ANY of the Animal Abuse. Vick paid for COMMERCIAL INFRINGEMENTS.

2. Vick is a liability for any team considering his ON AND OFF field problems even OUTSIDE of the dog fighting charges.

3. I did care about animal abuse BEFORE vick, i simply did not post about it becuase before because it, comments on animal abuse, DID NOT CONCERN THE ATLANTA FALCONS NOR ANY OF ITS MEMBERS, at that time. And you are assuming that my silence of the subject meant my apathy for it. Why would I post comments on animal abuse IN GENERAL on a falcon message board since AT THAT TIME, would be unrelated to the happenings of the falcons. Where would I post a general topic on animal abuse IN GENERAL on a falcons message board... Oh lets see should I have posted it in Talk About the Falcons, Pure Football, NFL Draft and Free Agency, Around the NFL , Dome Field Advantage, Falcons Game Day Discussion, Tailgating Central, Road Trip!, College Sports Forum, ect... ect.. I think You get the point. What you are saying does not make sence.

4. When someone says that vick should get a second chance and that he is an awesome football player, that is a critisim, AND A JUDGEMENT, albeit a postive one. For every action there is an EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION. If it is ok for postive critique and judgement then there is certainly room for the negative critique and judgement.

5. You claim that since I cant do anything about it so why bother; Isnt it a waste of time promoting vick should have a second chance, EVEN THO YOU CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT THAT AS WELL. What you are doing is simply trying to stomp my opinions simply because you dont like them. As long as people are promoting Vick to have a second chance, i will promote why he should not. When they stop so shall I.

6. I do come up with ways to stop dog fighting by trying to squech views that dog fighting is no big deal by spreading AWARENESS. If it be on a message board WHEN THE SUBJECT IS CURRENT AND RELAVANT, or by other avenues. I have personally helped any animal in need when I had the ablity in my life time. Personal responsibility does not require alligning one self with a organization such as PETA. Do you have to join the UN in order to help out your fellow man? This is just plain silly.

7. As far as PETA turing down Vick, it was because of the conclusion that Vick wanted to use PETA for a public relations scheme, and that PETA did not believe Vick was sincere. Why should they, when Vick has shown to be a perpetual liar, and has no credibility. You give him credibility not because you think he is honest, but you so desperatly want him back in a uniform so he can entertain you.

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What is weird is that I think dog fighting is disgusting but I still want Vick to play. Weird huh...

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Saying that human life is the top of value IS a double standard. What your saying is that even tho killing animals is bad, it is not as bad as killing humans. THAT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD. What I am saying is NOT a double standard becuase all life is life, human or otherwise. How would you feel if vick did the same thing to human beings instead of dogs. So if vick starved humans, so they would be hungry, beat them so they would be aggressive, put the trained fighting humans in a pit of small children so they could kill those children in order to train them to be killing machines, betted on those trained humans to kill other trained humans.. An what if those trained killing machines got loose to kill other humans If that was the case, should vick be reinstated? Would you say well, he only killed a few humans but so what, mike vick deserves another chance. Would you say that was simply bad judgement, dont judge him so harsly. If he did the same to over 30 humans that a couple of years in jail and some money would be justice to the humans that he killed and tortured. No you would be outraged and saying he doesnt deserve a chance and that he should be locked up forever, or possible put on death row. Only differernce is that to YOU its just dogs man, and in your mind that doesnt count for much. Come on man. You are simply picking and choosing which life you value and which you dont.

The thinking that humans are better than any other animal is wishful thinking. Human may have th intelligence for technology, that other animals do not have... but you dont see the rest of the animal kingdom killing each other for pleasure, religion, and politics. This is purely a human endeavor. People who say that humans are better only want to imagine this fantasy as an excuse for some kind of superiority. Racism or speciesism, are both delusions of the same magnatude. Wishful thinking does not make it the opposite.

What I'm saying is that NFL can't apply a double standard with regards to how it treats individuals that commit crimes. Leonard Little killed someone and it was not his intent. How many years did he spend in jail? How much money did he lose? The answer, he didn’t spend enough time in jail, and he lost nowhere near the amount of money Vick lost (or even the same percentage of his income). All the while he was allowed to continue his career. Bottom line, Vick has paid a bigger penalty for his intent to do harm to animals. What more do you want?

You sir, are allowed and entitled to your own views as I am to mine. I didn’t make up the rules that say it’s ok to hunt and kill certain animals but not other. Chew on that if you want to get technical about all life. If you want to go really deep, don’t swat that next mosquito that lands on you while outside or spider you find in your house. If by some chance you or someone you care about is attacked by a dog or any kind of animal, do nothing.

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What I'm saying is that NFL can't apply a double standard with regards to how it treats individuals that commit crimes. Leonard Little killed someone and it was not his intent. How many years did he spend in jail? How much money did he lose? The answer, he didn’t spend enough time in jail, and he lost nowhere near the amount of money Vick lost (or even the same percentage of his income). All the while he was allowed to continue his career. Bottom line, Vick has paid a bigger penalty for his intent to do harm to animals. What more do you want?

You sir, are allowed and entitled to your own views as I am to mine. I didn’t make up the rules that say it’s ok to hunt and kill certain animals but not other. Chew on that if you want to get technical about all life. If you want to go really deep, don’t swat that next mosquito that lands on you while outside or spider you find in your house. If by some chance you or someone you care about is attacked by a dog or any kind of animal, do nothing.

Oh my fictiicious gods in heaven.... Michael Vick didnt go to jail for animal abuse. He went to jail for betting and and trasporting. Why is this so hard for you vick lovers to comprehend. Second, killing for the sake of killing... and killing OUT OF DEFENCE for SELF preservation are totally different things. If some dog was attacking and my life was threatened, the dog would die. If a puppy bit me. I would probably just push it away. Trying using logical thought and reason when discussing these hypothetical situations. People swat flys not just because they are just anoying but they potentially carry deadly diseases and even contagious pathogens and all maner of parasites.

And yes intent is part of the crime. Its what distiguishes a first degree murder from a second degree murder. One is planned while the other is due out of a brief temporary reaction due to emotional distress. You dont see the difference?

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So when he's reinstated, what are you gonna do? Set yourself on fire in protest? Go on a hunger strike? What? Because I can tell you the earth won't stop rotating, so you might as well grab a Heineken and watch the game.

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So when he's reinstated, what are you gonna do? Set yourself on fire in protest? Go on a hunger strike? What? Because I can tell you the earth won't stop rotating, so you might as well grab a Heineken and watch the game.

:lol:

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So when he's reinstated, what are you gonna do? Set yourself on fire in protest? Go on a hunger strike? What? Because I can tell you the earth won't stop rotating, so you might as well grab a Heineken and watch the game.

LOL. I am not an extremist like your boy vick. If he did get reinstated I would enjoy the game and I would root for every linebacker, saftey, cornerback, defensive linemen, to flatten, crush, runover, and annihilate Vick everytime I watch a game. I would have 2 favorite teams instead of one. I would root for the falcons, and any team Vick would be facing for that weekend. :lol:

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And this is even easier to comment on:

3. I did care about animal abuse BEFORE vick, i simply did not post about it becuase before because it, comments on animal abuse, DID NOT CONCERN THE ATLANTA FALCONS NOR ANY OF ITS MEMBERS, at that time.

Since Vick will NOT be playing here, how does this concern us now?

You claim that since I cant do anything about it so why bother; Isnt it a waste of time promoting vick should have a second chance, EVEN THO YOU CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT THAT AS WELL. What you are doing is simply trying to stomp my opinions simply because you dont like them.

I don't CLAIM you can not do anything about the man playing football, I KNOW that for a fact. Also, I am not PROMOTING anything, just offering my opinion, I'm not trying to do anything about him playing football or not. If you can't do anything about, why would I think I could? Finally, I do not see anywhere in my post where I'm trying to "stomp" your opinions. Just replying to yours- its called a discussion, don't get it twisted.

As far as PETA turning down Vick, it was because of the conclusion that Vick wanted to use PETA for a public relations scheme, and that PETA did not believe Vick was sincere. Why should they, when Vick has shown to be a perpetual liar, and has no credibility. You give him credibility not because you think he is honest, but you so desperatly want him back in a uniform so he can entertain you.

And as far as PETA goes, they ARE a public relations scheme... :lol: How in the world does PETA know that if they haven't even spoke to the man? Okay, its called "assumptions", not "conclusion", something you seemed to have in common with them the way you ASSumed I desperately want Vick in uniform again. Here's another one, why is the Humane Society willing to do it? Oh wait, maybe because they, unlike PETA,know the message would benefit the animals and are less concerned with judging Vick's moral fiber. WHAT ever the reason is behind it, the message would be out there that doing what Vick did would be bad is better than NO message at all. Its called trying to make amends for something done wrong. But I guess once a person commits a crime or sin they NEVER should have the opportunity to make amends? Just asking, not assuming you think that. Maybe its not up to him how he goes about making amends, its up to PETA or all those that say he shouldn't ever play in the NFL again? Haven't figured that out yet.

And I wish you's stop putting words in my mouth cause I NEVER said (and you can re-read my post again if that helps) anything about me thinking Vick was being honest about anything or that I "desperately" want him back in a uniform so please stop coming like you know me and stick to what I typed-please stop assuming. Vick entertaining me by playing football is nowhere on my radar as something of importance. You are just attempting to respond to me as if I'm every other person that you THINK is obsessed with the man playing football and you got that wrong. I do believe I said in my post that Vick playing football or not is nowhere NEAR as important as preventing animal cruelty so how do you deduce desperation of me wanting him back in uniform to entertain me from? I would like to see someone who has failed miserably at life get a chance to redeem himself and do not wish to banish him into nothingness because that would not help anything, not those dogs me or you.

It's called forgiveness- you should try it sometime.

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"If he did get reinstated I would enjoy the game and I would root for every linebacker, saftey, cornerback, defensive linemen, to flatten, crush, runover, and annihilate Vick everytime I watched the game."

See right there, you just undid everything you tried to convey. You're just being vengeful now and that's what this is all about...not a good look.

I'm done with this thread...moving on!

fail2.jpg

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And this is even easier to comment on:

3. I did care about animal abuse BEFORE vick, i simply did not post about it becuase before because it, comments on animal abuse, DID NOT CONCERN THE ATLANTA FALCONS NOR ANY OF ITS MEMBERS, at that time.

Since Vick will NOT be playing here, how does this concern us now?

You claim that since I cant do anything about it so why bother; Isnt it a waste of time promoting vick should have a second chance, EVEN THO YOU CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT THAT AS WELL. What you are doing is simply trying to stomp my opinions simply because you dont like them.

I don't CLAIM you can not do anything about the man playing football, I KNOW that for a fact. Also, I am not PROMOTING anything, just offering my opinion, I'm not trying to do anything about him playing football or not. If you can't do anything about, why would I think I could? Finally, I do not see anywhere in my post where I'm trying to "stomp" your opinions. Just replying to yours- its called a discussion, don't get it twisted.

As far as PETA turning down Vick, it was because of the conclusion that Vick wanted to use PETA for a public relations scheme, and that PETA did not believe Vick was sincere. Why should they, when Vick has shown to be a perpetual liar, and has no credibility. You give him credibility not because you think he is honest, but you so desperatly want him back in a uniform so he can entertain you.

And as far as PETA goes, they ARE a public relations scheme... :lol: How in the world does PETA know that if they haven't even spoke to the man? Okay, its called "assumptions" something you seemed to have in common with them the way you ASSumed I desperately want Vick in uniform again. Here's another one, why is the Humane Society willing to do it? Oh wait, maybe because they, unlike PETA,know the message would benefit the animals and are less concerned with judging Vick's moral fiber. WHAT ever the reason is behind it, the message would be out there that doing what Vick did would be bad is better than NO message at all. Its called trying to make amends for something done wrong But I guess once a person commits a crime or sin they NEVER should have the opportunity to make amends? Just asking, not assuming you think that. Maybe its not up to him how he goes about making amends, its up to PETA or all those that say he shouldn't ever play in the NFL again? Haven't figured that out yet.

And I wish you's stop putting words in my mouth cause I NEVER said (and you can re-read my post again if that helps) anything about me thinking Vick was being honest about anything or that I "desperately" want him back in a uniform so come off trying to act like you know me and stick to what I typed-please stop assuming. Vick entertaining me by playing football is nowhere on my radar as something of importance. You are just attempting to respond to me as if I'm every other person that you THINK is obsessed with the man playing football and you got that wrong. I do believe I said in my post that Vick playing football or not is nowhere NEAR as important as preventing animal cruelty so how do you deduce desperation of me wanting him back in uniform to entertain me from? I would like to see someone who has failed miserably at life get a chance to redeem himself and do not wish to banish him into nothingness because that would not help anything, not those dogs me or you.

It's called forgiveness- you should try it sometime.

You have to talk to a man to figure out if he is a liar? Is it me, or did michael vick say he was not involved with the marijunna, ron mexico incident and the dog fighting and later recanted his statements. I dont know... maybe it's just me, but I would think that it would constitute as lieing. Do you have to talk to Hitler to figure he is lieing or George Bush Jr? If his words and his actions do not match than it is dishonesty. You dont need to be a brain surgeon to figure this out.

Just like you are offering your opinion I am offering mine, with the reasons I feel and think this way. There is NO EVIDENCE that Michael Vick is sincere. I am not saying he isnt... I am saying there is no reason to believe that he changed his ways. If you can show me evidence of such, I would be glad to listen. There is a reason that PETA did not want vick to be part of thier campaign and here is an article addressing it.

PETA: Michael Vick Won't Represent Us, May Be "Psychopath"

This is part of this article and here is a quote:

To clarify misleading stories regarding PETA and Michael Vick, PETA withdrew its offer to do a TV spot with Michael Vick last winter when a U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) report on Vick's dogfighting activities revealed that he enjoyed placing family pets in the ring with fighting pit bulls and that he laughed as dogs ripped each other apart. PETA believes that this revelation, along with other factors in the report, fit the established profile for anti-social personality disorder (APD), and we called on Vick to have a brain scan to help confirm this. People diagnosed with APD are commonly referred to as "psychopaths." They are usually male, prone to lying and manipulation, often take pleasure in cruelty, and cannot feel genuine remorse, which frequently leads to recidivism. PETA had previously been in talks with Vick's management, public relations, and legal teams about shooting a public service announcement to help combat dogfighting, upon Vick's release from prison. In December, after consulting with psychiatrists, PETA withdrew the offer for the TV spot, and in January, we called on NFL Commissioner Goodell to require that Vick undergo a brain scan and full psychological evaluation before any decisions were made about the future of his football career.

I will be the judge on who will I forgive. If Miichael Vick really did have an accident, or mistake, he would have ALREADY been forgiven by now. Because of his intent to enjoy inflicting pain on others, I see NO REASON why I should forgive. Give me ONE REASON. A HONEST AND LOGICAL REASON to forgive Vick just one. So far I have only heard empathy for this man because you and others want to see him in a jersey playing on sunday. I have seen NO REASON that he is sincere, or wants to change his ways OR deserves a second chance. ALL that I seen, is that his football fans want him to play. You mentioned that you want to see that someone who failed at life get a second chance; I can empathise with that... If he was a victim of some deed, and accident, unforseen circumstances beyond his control, perhaps simple misfortune. If this was the case, like you I would want him to succeed. But we are not talking about some guy who failed simply because he didnt put the right answers down on some test because he forgot to study or was not bright enough to know what the answers are. We are talking about a man THAT PURPOSELY FAILED and THAT PURPOSELY FAILED OTHERS, that DIDNT GIVE A CRAP about anyone but himself, and THAT PURPOSELY DESTROYED INNCOCENT CREATURES. This is not some underdog against all odds story: This is a monster that is let loose to roam around and has the potential to cause even more harm.

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