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Could it be possible that we trade for Glenn Dorsey. He had an above average rookie season and helped the Chiefs D-Line. Now that they switch into a 3-4 there is not spot for him. He is not a 3-4 NT and not a 3-4 DE. So what are the Chiefs going to do with him. Maybe a trade and we were really considering him last year so a possible trade could be made.

I know that a thread like this has been made but lets bring it up again :P

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Watch, there will be a draft day trade for Dorsey.....This is a VERY weak DT class and Scott Pioli will be licking his chops b/c a lot of teams are looking for a 4-3 DT....BTW, I don't see Tambai Hall fitting their 3-4 system either....I hope we make a trade for him...He is a good 4-3 LDE.....

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Could it be possible that we trade for Glenn Dorsey. He had an above average rookie season and helped the Chiefs D-Line. Now that they switch into a 3-4 there is not spot for him. He is not a 3-4 NT and not a 3-4 DE. So what are the Chiefs going to do with him. Maybe a trade and we were really considering him last year so a possible trade could be made.

I know that a thread like this has been made but lets bring it up again :P

I say his season was below average and well below expectation, but he was poorly used in KC and will be

miscast at 3-4 NT. I would hope TD will pursue a deal

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That was the least experienced starting NFL defensive line I've ever seen. I have a hard time coming down hard on any of them given how green they were.

Dorsey was the #1 overall composite player in last year's draft according to Gosselin's board. If he did come available, there would be league wide interest in him and I'm certain someone in the 20s would give up a #1 pick for the best player from last year. I suspect they'll see how he does for a year as a 3-4 end before they try to trade him, though. Whomever mentioned Hali is thinking the right way. He's the one who is probably attainable at the moment. He's going to have to be a 3-4 OLB if he stays, and I don't think that's a good fit.

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How ironic would that be if we ended up with *both* Ryan and Dorsey?

With that said, I really can't see KC giving up on him already. He may not be an ideal fit for the 3-4, but like others have mentioned, I'm sure the Chiefs will want to see how he does at DE for a year. I'm thinking that he'll be with KC until at least 2010.

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From what I've heard they want to try him as 3-4 DE ... hope they see in the OTAs that it's not going to work and put him on the block for a late 1st/early 2nd ... I'd take him for pick #24, he's better than any DT in the draft.

He might be better than any DT in this draft but he is not the kind of DT that we need. We just rewarded Babineaux with a big extension to play the UT position for us for the next 5 years and that is what Dorsey plays. Dorsey is a quick-twitch penetrator like Babs. We need to put a beefier DT next to Babs that is better against the run. If we had Babineaux and Dorsey as our starting DTs we would get run on all day. Plus Dorsey was awarded a handsome contract just a year ago and the Chiefs have plans to use him at DE (more because they don't want to ship out their #5 overall selection from a year ago so soon as opposed to they think he'll be good there imo). I think it will be a failed experiment, but an experiment nonetheless.

If you are looking for someone from the Chiefs, we should seriously target Tamba Hali for a trade. He is a very good 4-3 LDE that does not have a DL position in the 3-4. They might try him at OLB but he won't be good there, he doesn't have the kind of athleticism to succeed in space although he is athletic for a LDE. I would trade Jamaal for Tamba, and we might even be able to move up in the draft like we did in the Laurent trade because Jamaal can play both 4-3 DE and 3-4 DE and Hali can only play one. It's almost as if we are doing them a favor if we make that trade, we just happen to get someone who better fits our scheme in return.

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He might be better than any DT in this draft but he is not the kind of DT that we need. We just rewarded Babineaux with a big extension to play the UT position for us for the next 5 years and that is what Dorsey plays. Dorsey is a quick-twitch penetrator like Babs. We need to put a beefier DT next to Babs that is better against the run. If we had Babineaux and Dorsey as our starting DTs we would get run on all day. Plus Dorsey was awarded a handsome contract just a year ago and the Chiefs have plans to use him at DE (more because they don't want to ship out their #5 overall selection from a year ago so soon as opposed to they think he'll be good there imo). I think it will be a failed experiment, but an experiment nonetheless.

If you are looking for someone from the Chiefs, we should seriously target Tamba Hali for a trade. He is a very good 4-3 LDE that does not have a DL position in the 3-4. They might try him at OLB but he won't be good there, he doesn't have the kind of athleticism to succeed in space although he is athletic for a LDE. I would trade Jamaal for Tamba, and we might even be able to move up in the draft like we did in the Laurent trade because Jamaal can play both 4-3 DE and 3-4 DE and Hali can only play one. It's almost as if we are doing them a favor if we make that trade, we just happen to get someone who better fits our scheme in return.

Haven't discussed with you lately, so I'm glad you're active in that topic ;)

I disagree that Dorsey is not the DT we need. I hate this "beefy DT" stereotype, either you can play the run, or you can't, it has nothing to do with weight. But you read it over and over on this forum, because it (kind of) worked with Grady.

I prefer the attack and make them bounce the ball to the outside kind of defense and not the wall-off-style. I want the 2 DTs to penetrate and Lofton to tackle everything that gets past them (if they even try to go up the middle) ... but that's something the coaches have to decide, if we want to be aggressive, 2 penetrating DTs is the way to go ... if they want to wall-off against the run, get a run-stuffer.

Also we're running a rotation and Babs looked tired at the end of the season, because he was on the field pretty much every snap. Babs&Dorsey in the base package (with Abe and JA98) and on pass downs (with Abe and Kroy) ... Babs and Dorsey in a rotation with Lewis as other DT on run downs with Davis and JA98 as ends.

I have no problem with paying 4 D-Liners good money ... to me they deserve it more than some players on the offensive side of the ball.

I agree that they won't put him on the block before trying him at DE, but you never know when they will call it a failed experiment.

I wouldn't trade JA98 for Hali, I like Hali but I haven't given up on JA yet, I hope Smith and co. will push him this offseason now that they know what areas to work on.

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Haven't discussed with you lately, so I'm glad you're active in that topic ;)

I disagree that Dorsey is not the DT we need. I hate this "beefy DT" stereotype, either you can play the run, or you can't, it has nothing to do with weight. But you read it over and over on this forum, because it (kind of) worked with Grady.

I prefer the attack and make them bounce the ball to the outside kind of defense and not the wall-off-style. I want the 2 DTs to penetrate and Lofton to tackle everything that gets past them (if they even try to go up the middle) ... but that's something the coaches have to decide, if we want to be aggressive, 2 penetrating DTs is the way to go ... if they want to wall-off against the run, get a run-stuffer.

Also we're running a rotation and Babs looked tired at the end of the season, because he was on the field pretty much every snap. Babs&Dorsey in the base package (with Abe and JA98) and on pass downs (with Abe and Kroy) ... Babs and Dorsey in a rotation with Lewis as other DT on run downs with Davis and JA98 as ends.

I have no problem with paying 4 D-Liners good money ... to me they deserve it more than some players on the offensive side of the ball.

I agree that they won't put him on the block before trying him at DE, but you never know when they will call it a failed experiment.

I wouldn't trade JA98 for Hali, I like Hali but I haven't given up on JA yet, I hope Smith and co. will push him this offseason now that they know what areas to work on.

You misinterpreted what I meant when I said beefy. Dorsey is 6'1 and not even 300 lbs. I'd like someone that is at least 6'3 and over 300 lbs. I don't mean a huge one-dimensional run stuffer like Grady. Babs is 6'2 and 286 lbs. If you put another small DT next to him we are going to get run on, period. What defense always had 2 penetrating DTs to fit their Cover 2, and yet their defense was always notoriously bad, especially against the run. Answer: The Colts. We don't want that kind of defense. We need a bigger DT next to Babs so when opposing teams do run the ball, one of our DTs will shoot the gap to try and break it up in the backfield (50/50 he gets blocked out of the play) and the other DT clogs the lane and redirects the play (the bigger DT has a much better chance of not getting blocked out of the play). Dorsey would be great as a rotational player with Babs and in passing downs, but he would not be worth what we'd have to give up to get him. I also don't think Dorsey will be available for trade at least until next offseason. He is brand new to the franchise and they are going to give him one of the DE spots. If he stinks it up - he will since his job will be to stuff the run against OTs and he is not a run stuffer - then I think the Chiefs will be ok with parting ways with him.

As for JA98, does he have potential? Sure -- but he does not have the athleticism or skillset of Tamba Hali to be an all-around great LDE. What Anderson will never be able to do is consistently pressure the QB. He isn't quick enough and he doesn't chase down the QB on a prolonged play. Hali isn't as good as stuffing the run as Jamaal is, but he is way better after getting after the passer. In his rookie season he had 8 sacks. Jamaal had 0. Jamaal for Tamba would be a great trade not only for us but for the Chiefs as well. JA98 can be a good player for us, but he could be a great DE in the 3-4 where all he has to do is what he does best - take up space and stuff the run. So instead of going into the year with our failing experiment at LDE we could have a stud LDE and we will have a much improved pass rush for the entire season. Looking at our schedule, we are going to need it.

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We went through this a lot last year. Suffice it to say that Dorsey can play both DT positions and I am devout in the opinion that he's better at the nose.

I have to completely disagree with you. Even his teammates on the offensive line in Kansas City said he doesn't make a good NT and that the coaching staff is using him incorrectly. It was something along the lines of when Dorsey tries to play NT, he gets manhandled. I have been frantically looking for a link to it.

EDIT: Found it.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=4661

"The Chiefs have been using first-round rookie DT Glenn Dorsey head-up against offensive guards.

"He has no chance in pass rush," Dorsey's teammate Brian Waters, a Pro Bowl guard said. "I love it when a guy lines head-up." Dorsey's best position coming out of LSU was projected to be as a three-technique pass rusher. Lined head up against offensive linemen, he has little chance to penetrate."

http://gridironfans.com/forums/latest-nfl-...enn-dorsey.html

Chiefs OG Brian Waters Says Team's Misusing DT Glenn Dorsey

Kansas City Chiefs guard Brian Waters complained about the team's strategy of lining defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey up helmet-to-helmet against opposing team's guards. "He has no chance in pass rush," Waters said. "I love it when a guy lines head-up." Dorsey is listed at 6-1, 297 pounds. “The way we’re playing him, he better be 315,” Waters said. “He would get destroyed in the run game at 300.” Members of the Chiefs’ scouting department have blamed Dorsey’s subpar rookie season on the extra weight they allege he’s carrying.

A Nose Tackle lines head-up like Brian Waters said. If the Pro Bowl OG says that Dorsey gets destroyed in the run game as a NT, then I will take his word. Also, the scouting department is blaming Dorsey's crap rookie season on the EXTRA WEIGHT they say he is carrying. Extra weight at 297 lbs? All signs point to Glenn Dorsey = UT, not NT. A broken compass could even point that out.

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I have to completely disagree with you. Even his teammates on the offensive line in Kansas City said he doesn't make a good NT and that the coaching staff is using him incorrectly. It was something along the lines of when Dorsey tries to play NT, he gets manhandled. I have been frantically looking for a link to it.

He has played both throughout his career and he is more valuable at the nose since he offers a rare blend of disruption from that position. You are making the same argument from last year that every team needs a massive nose or else they get run on. That argument exists outside of Dorsey but what I said then (repeatedly) still applies. We run a similar scheme to the Chicago Bears. Their nose is Tommie Harris, who weighs a whopping 295 pounds. Their defense has been top notch the entire time he has been there, because they have compile a series of guys who attack upfield. Urlacher doesn't have any problem playing behind smaller guys in Dvoracek (300 pounds) and Harris, because it's not their weight but their talent that matters. Dorsey can absolutely dominate from the nose and he would be a magnificent compliment to Babs with Lewis in the rotation, too. All of this is irrelevant until such a time as he's actually put on the market, though.

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He has played both throughout his career and he is more valuable at the nose since he offers a rare blend of disruption from that position. You are making the same argument from last year that every team needs a massive nose or else they get run on. That argument exists outside of Dorsey but what I said then (repeatedly) still applies. We run a similar scheme to the Chicago Bears. Their nose is Tommie Harris, who weighs a whopping 295 pounds. Their defense has been top notch the entire time he has been there, because they have compile a series of guys who attack upfield. Urlacher doesn't have any problem playing behind smaller guys in Dvoracek (300 pounds) and Harris, because it's not their weight but their talent that matters. Dorsey can absolutely dominate from the nose and he would be a magnificent compliment to Babs with Lewis in the rotation, too. All of this is irrelevant until such a time as he's actually put on the market, though.

I repeat,

http://gridironfans.com/forums/latest-nfl-...enn-dorsey.html

Chiefs OG Brian Waters Says Team's Misusing DT Glenn Dorsey

Kansas City Chiefs guard Brian Waters complained about the team's strategy of lining defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey up helmet-to-helmet against opposing team's guards. "He has no chance in pass rush," Waters said. "I love it when a guy lines head-up." Dorsey is listed at 6-1, 297 pounds. “The way we’re playing him, he better be 315,” Waters said. “He would get destroyed in the run game at 300.” Members of the Chiefs’ scouting department have blamed Dorsey’s subpar rookie season on the extra weight they allege he’s carrying.

Every other DT on the Bears roster is over 300 lbs. Tommie Harris actually plays the UT position for the Bears by the way, so I don't see your point there. You also cannot compare our defense to the Bears' defense because they blitz their LBs occasionally - we do not...ever. It isn't just my opinion - I am using professionals' opinions and scouts' opinions. Dorsey is not a NT in any scheme. It's scary that the KC staff says he is overweight at 297 lbs as well.

How are you going to argue with Brian Waters who played against Dorsey as a NT everyday in practice? Waters clearly says Dorsey can't play NT - he isn't big enough to do so. He'd make a fine, or perhaps even very good UT in a 4-3, but the Chiefs misused him last season and now he'll be playing in a 3-4.

I'm going to try to not argue with you about this because I don't even think there is a semi-legitimate argument for him being a NT. He played UT at LSU during his entire career next to DTs Marlon Favorite (6'1, 320 lbs), Charles Alexander (6'3, 315 lbs), and Al Woods (6'4, 325 lbs). C'mon man. There isn't even an argument.

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I repeat,

That's a waste of time. If I didn't buy what you were selling the first time, I'm clearly not going to buy it now.

Every other DT on the Bears roster is over 300 lbs. Tommie Harris actually plays the UT position for the Bears by the way, so I don't see your point there.

No, he doesn't. Here's the NFL depth chart if you have any question: http://www.nfl.com/teams/atlantafalcons/depthchart?team=CHI

Even if he did, Dvoracek is only 5 pounds heavier, so there wouldn't be a magical change in weight anyway, rendering your point about needing guys way beyond 300 pounds at the spot moot. The Bears defense is the perfect model for undersized, disrupting players dominating at DT. It's the specific reason that the Falcons couldn't make a 3rd or 4th and short against the Bears in that December weather game in 2005.

I'm going to try to not argue with you about this because I don't even think there is a semi-legitimate argument for him being a NT.

Other than the fact that it's where the Chiefs and Tigers coaching staffs both chose to play him because they thought that's where he was better utilized, you mean. You ask how I'm going to argue with a starting guard. I would counter that yours is the untenable position since you're arguing with his defensive line coach, coordinator and head coach.

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That's a waste of time. If I didn't buy what you were selling the first time, I'm clearly not going to buy it now.

So then what you are saying is Brian Waters, a 10 year veteran in the NFL and a pro bowl OG and teammate of Glenn Dorsey's, is wrong?

No, he doesn't. Here's the NFL depth chart if you have any question: http://www.nfl.com/teams/atlantafalcons/depthchart?team=CHI

Tommie Harris plays the UT position for the Bears.

Even if he did, Dvoracek is only 5 pounds heavier, so there wouldn't be a magical change in weight anyway, rendering your point about needing guys way beyond 300 pounds at the spot moot. The Bears defense is the perfect model for undersized, disrupting players dominating at DT. It's the specific reason that the Falcons couldn't make a 3rd or 4th and short against the Bears in that December weather game in 2005.

Dvoracek plays in season at 305 lbs. And the Bears do not play the same defense we do. The Bears blitz a good amount - we never blitz. Blitzing helps against the run since it gets more defenders at the LOS much quicker and brings mismatches for OL's to block. Look at the Colts defense which is more similar to ours - with two small DTs they were okay against the pass but got manhandled against the run. And they couldn't make a 4th and short because the Bears had EVERYONE in the box.

Other than the fact that it's where the Chiefs and Tigers coaching staffs both chose to play him because they thought that's where he was better utilized, you mean. You ask how I'm going to argue with a starting guard. I would counter that yours is the untenable position since you're arguing with his defensive line coach, coordinator and head coach.

Glenn Dorsey was a UT, not a NT, during his career as a Tiger at LSU. I just said that. The Chiefs tried to play him there because they needed a NT and they thought Dorsey was good enough to do it - it is very clear after last season that he is not a 4-3 NT. He can't line up over an NFL O-lineman head-up. He'll get dominated almost every time against the run. Having Dorsey and Babs starting would only be good against the Babs with two UTs penetrating and getting after the QB. Against the run, we'd be screwed. Of course the coaches are going to support to their decisions btw. What do you think is going to happen, Herm is going to say "Yeah...we know he isn't a NT." They tried him at NT and it was a failed experiment. If they actually try him at 3-4 NT he will get killed. Every single scouting report you could have read this time last year said "The best 3-technique DT in the draft" or "A prime three technique candidate".

"The 3 technique tackle almost exclusively plays a single gap, the B, 3, 4 or 3-4 gaps between the offensive guard and offensive tackle. The term is used interchangeably meaning either the position itself, or the typical traits of the position: fast first step, ability to shed blockers, ability to make plays behind the line of scrimmage, ability to create inside pressure and ability to sack the quarterback."

That is what Glenn Dorsey should be doing, which is what Jon Babineaux is doing for us. Not lining head-up over a guard. And I never said a NT had to be a monster. But like Brian Waters said, if you are going to be a successful NT in the NFL, you should be in the 315 lbs range give or take a few pounds.

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wait for Ndamukong Suh next year
x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000

We already put off getting a DT from last year's draft and that didn't work out too well. You guys need to forget about this wait until next year ********. If this guy is as good as you are saying I hope we aren't drafting high enough to get him nor trading the type of picks to get him either. If a good player is there this year at our pick or via trade we get him now. Waiting for next year again for a need position like DT is pure stupidity.

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We already put off getting a DT from last year's draft and that didn't work out too well. You guys need to forget about this wait until next year ********. If this guy is as good as you are saying I hope we aren't drafting high enough to get him nor trading the type of picks to get him either. If a good player is there this year at our pick or via trade we get him now. Waiting for next year again for a need position like DT is pure stupidity.

I actually wanted to say this before hand but I didn't think I have to because I've said a million times over - I'm not in favor of waiting for next year to draft Suh just because I really like Suh. I have said many times I don't there are any DTs in this draft that can be a starter, fit our scheme, or have a real impact at our draft picks. Once Raji gets taken, everyone else is someone we don't really need. We could take a mid-late round guy for depth and rotation, but no one that would be a starter next to Babs. Suh, McCoy, Austin -- they would all be starters for us. We can draft other positions this year that fit our scheme with players that could start for us and make a real impact (CB, OL, S, TE). We should draft players that we think fit our scheme best and would make impacts for us and be with us for the long haul - and not just draft by position of need. That's why we didn't take a DT last year, and that is why I hope we don't take one this year.

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