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march 2009 was WARMER THAN LAST YEAR...early data released, w/ more coming next few days.


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obviously i dont know about globally, but that is pretty hard to believe about the continental U.S.

this seemed like a harsh winter and God knows it was far below average here in south Louisiana. While I realize that Louisiana is only one small part of the U.S., there has to be some severe cold coming from the North-West to make it down this far. ****, last night we nearly had a freeze and were near record lows dating back to the 1930s

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obviously i dont know about globally, but that is pretty hard to believe about the continental U.S.

this seemed like a harsh winter and God knows it was far below average here in south Louisiana. While I realize that Louisiana is only one small part of the U.S., there has to be some severe cold coming from the North-West to make it down this far. ****, last night we nearly had a freeze and were near record lows dating back to the 1930s

actually, temps for continental US were much hotter compared to past year than was the global average.

Temperature Anomaly (US 48 Contiguous States):

2009: .61

2008: -.59

also, for new orleans, march 2009 was nearly 3 degrees above normal. the problem is that everyone focuses on the really cold days & nobody remembers the hotter-than-normal days. even though the average temp in march 2009 is about 65 degrees, new orleans had 11 days last month above 80 degrees.

that's why it's important not to get sucked into this snake mentality of focusing only on the cold, b/c doing that can lead you badly astray. i don't know if the link will work, but here is last month's weather report for NOLA. the text below usually doesn't cut/paste very well.

http://www.weather.gov/climate/getclimate.php?wfo=lix

PRELIMINARY LOCAL CLIMATOLOGICAL DATA (WS FORM: F-6)

STATION: NEW ORLEANS

MONTH: MARCH

YEAR: 2009

LATITUDE: 29 58 N

LONGITUDE: 90 15 W

TEMPERATURE IN F: :PCPN: SNOW: WIND :SUNSHINE: SKY :PK WND

================================================================================

1 2 3 4 5 6A 6B 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

12Z AVG MX 2MIN

DY MAX MIN AVG DEP HDD CDD WTR SNW DPTH SPD SPD DIR MIN PSBL S-S WX SPD DR

================================================================================

1 55 36 46 -13 19 0 0.00 0.0 0 20.0 29 330 M M 4 44 320

2 56 38 47 -12 18 0 0.00 0.0 0 11.9 22 10 M M 2 26 360

3 57 41 49 -10 16 0 0.00 0.0 0 7.9 17 40 M M 5 21 30

4 65 41 53 -7 12 0 0.00 0.0 0 8.1 17 140 M M 6 22 130

5 73 54 64 4 1 0 0.00 0.0 0 10.4 18 150 M M 3 23 170

6 78 57 68 8 0 3 0.00 0.0 0 9.4 18 170 M M 4 18 23 170

7 78 61 70 9 0 5 0.00 0.0 0 11.9 23 180 M M 4 28 180

8 81 65 73 12 0 8 0.00 0.0 0 8.5 18 190 M M 6 18 26 190

9 81 63 72 11 0 7 0.00 0.0 0 7.0 17 180 M M 6 12 21 180

10 80 64 72 11 0 7 0.00 0.0 0 10.2 21 170 M M 3 1 24 180

11 82 63 73 12 0 8 0.00 0.0 0 6.2 17 190 M M 5 18 21 190

12 76 62 69 7 0 4 0.00 0.0 0 8.1 14 60 M M 7 18 18 140

13 78 63 71 9 0 6 0.01 0.0 0 8.6 22 170 M M 8 18 26 170

14 74 60 67 5 0 2 0.47 0.0 0 7.5 17 190 M M 10 18 22 190

15 71 60 66 4 0 1 0.13 0.0 0 3.8 13 320 M M 9 1 17 320

16 67 63 65 2 0 0 0.29 0.0 0 4.3 14 10 M M 10 1 17 10

17 75 57 66 3 0 1 0.00 0.0 0 6.7 15 30 M M 5 24 70

18 76 53 65 2 0 0 0.00 0.0 0 4.9 13 20 M M 1 18 17 30

19 77 54 66 3 0 1 0.00 0.0 0 3.8 13 20 M M 4 128 16 20

20 75 57 66 3 0 1 0.00 0.0 0 9.9 20 40 M M 1 25 40

21 76 57 67 3 0 2 0.00 0.0 0 7.7 17 50 M M 4 21 40

22 76 56 66 2 0 1 0.00 0.0 0 8.1 17 120 M M 4 1 24 110

23 76 59 68 4 0 3 0.00 0.0 0 8.6 17 120 M M 4 23 140

24 78 65 72 8 0 7 0.00 0.0 0 13.6 24 160 M M 6 31 160

25 79 70 75 11 0 10 0.00 0.0 0 17.6 26 190 M M 8 18 35 190

26 78 63 71 7 0 6 3.29 0.0 0 11.6 39 250 M M 9 1358 48 260

27 78 65 72 7 0 7 0.69 0.0 0 8.6 23 290 M M 9 13 31 290

28 74 53 64 -1 1 0 0.18 0.0 0 15.1 23 280 M M 5 138 28 270

29 67 48 58 -7 7 0 0.00 0.0 0 8.6 22 290 M M 0 28 270

30 73 48 61 -4 4 0 0.00 0.0 0 8.5 20 140 M M 5 1 25 140

31 80 65 73 8 0 8 0.01 0.0 0 7.3 17 320 M M 9 18 23 320

================================================================================

SM 2290 1761 78 98 5.07 0.0 284.4 M 166

================================================================================

AV 73.9 56.8 9.2 FASTST M M 5 MAX(MPH)

MISC ----> # 39 250 # 48 260

================================================================================

NOTES:

# LAST OF SEVERAL OCCURRENCES

COLUMN 17 PEAK WIND IN M.P.H.

PRELIMINARY LOCAL CLIMATOLOGICAL DATA (WS FORM: F-6) , PAGE 2

STATION: NEW ORLEANS

MONTH: MARCH

YEAR: 2009

LATITUDE: 29 58 N

LONGITUDE: 90 15 W

[TEMPERATURE DATA]

AVERAGE MONTHLY: 65.3

DPTR FM NORMAL: 2.9

HIGHEST: 82 ON 11 GRTST 24HR 3.29 ON 26-26 TO 1/4 MILE OR LESS

LOWEST: 36 ON 1 3 = THUNDER

SNOW, ICE PELLETS, HAIL 4 = ICE PELLETS

TOTAL MONTH: 0.0 INCH 5 = HAIL

GRTST 24HR 0.0 6 = FREEZING RAIN OR DRIZZLE

GRTST DEPTH: 0 7 = DUSTSTORM OR SANDSTORM:

VSBY 1/2 MILE OR LESS

8 = SMOKE OR HAZE

[NO. OF DAYS WITH] [WEATHER - DAYS WITH] 9 = BLOWING SNOW

X = TORNADO

MAX 32 OR BELOW: 0 0.01 INCH OR MORE: 8

MAX 90 OR ABOVE: 0 0.10 INCH OR MORE: 6

MIN 32 OR BELOW: 0 0.50 INCH OR MORE: 2

MIN 0 OR BELOW: 0 1.00 INCH OR MORE: 1

[HDD (BASE 65) ]

TOTAL THIS MO. 78 CLEAR (SCALE 0-3) 6

DPTR FM NORMAL -72 PTCLDY (SCALE 4-7) 19

TOTAL FM JUL 1 1020 CLOUDY (SCALE 8-10) 6

DPTR FM NORMAL -352

[CDD (BASE 65) ]

TOTAL THIS MO. 98

DPTR FM NORMAL 36 [PRESSURE DATA]

TOTAL FM JAN 1 157 HIGHEST SLP 30.41 ON 3

DPTR FM NORMAL 64 LOWEST SLP 29.52 ON 28

[REMARKS]

#FINAL-03-09#

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He's not to believed. The US has had record colds as has most of the planet over the last 2 years.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

i'm citing the EXACT SAME DATA you routinely cite (e.g., NOAA, UAH, & RSS).

how convenient that you quote data sources when they suit your purposes but reject those exact same data sources when they prove you wrong???

typical. now go post another fake interview or some article about a non-existent scientific organization.

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Here in Indiana we just had an accumulation of snow for the 6th straight month. It's April and it was freezing yesterday and today. Average temps are an indicator but not the end of the story. I can't remember a year with so many cold days over such a long period of time. For us, winter started in early November and hasn't left yet....

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Here in Indiana we just had an accumulation of snow for the 6th straight month. It's April and it was freezing yesterday and today. Average temps are an indicator but not the end of the story. I can't remember a year with so many cold days over such a long period of time. For us, winter started in early November and hasn't left yet....

Just to clarify, I am not stating a stance one way or the other on global warming, just saying average temp isn't the whole story. How many highs and lows are being set. How many days below and above average, etc.

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Here in Indiana we just had an accumulation of snow for the 6th straight month. It's April and it was freezing yesterday and today. Average temps are an indicator but not the end of the story. I can't remember a year with so many cold days over such a long period of time. For us, winter started in early November and hasn't left yet....

depends on what we're talking about here. if we're talking about snake's claim that there's a supposed "cooling trend", both globally and nationally, then average temp's are the best indicator of whether we are cooling or warming.

if we're talking about severity of weather, then i completely agree that temps only one of many indicators. precipitation & days of snow are also important to that. if you'd like to discuss increasingly severe weather patterns then i'll be happy to talk about it, but my purpose with this thread is to update snake on the bet we made regarding his claim that this year would be cooler than last year, and that next year will be cooler than this year. so far he's losing that bet.

also, depending on the climate in your area, warmer temps can actually increase snowfall. this is a very weird concept to people in the south, but the fact is that extreme cold decreases the number of inches of snowfall b/c the snow will be thinner & powdery, which means it will blow through without building large accumulations. warmer temps in that climate drops what most southerners know as snow--those big, fat, wet flakes that pile up on the ground & roads very quickly.

we're seeing that out west. where i live, we've had temps that are about 5 degrees hotter than normal...it's been one of the mildest winters on record. yet we're we're well above average on snowfall b/c the accumulation has been greater. snake, of course, doesn't take these things into consideration, which is why he's going to lose $100 at the end of this year.

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Just to clarify, I am not stating a stance one way or the other on global warming, just saying average temp isn't the whole story. How many highs and lows are being set. How many days below and above average, etc.

understood, & again it depends on what we're wanting to measure.

however, i will say that if you have three days of serious cold then 27 days of slightly above average temps, then the monthly average is by far the better measure. IOW, you can set three record lows & no record high's & still have overall warming trend. the average temp nullifies a lot of the random daily variation to get a better sense of the overall trend.

monthly averages are less useful than yearly averages, of course, for the same reason stated above. the global warming/climate change debate is about long-term, cross-decade trends. snake's claim is that last year's especially cold temp's "proves" that we're in a "cooling trend". all of these threads & all of the data i've been citing show how ridiculous his claim is. the overall trend is still increasing, & this winter has, on the whole, been warmer than last year AND has been warmer than average.

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Here in Indiana we just had an accumulation of snow for the 6th straight month. It's April and it was freezing yesterday and today. Average temps are an indicator but not the end of the story. I can't remember a year with so many cold days over such a long period of time. For us, winter started in early November and hasn't left yet....

btw, i just checked the NOAA data for indianapolis (don't know where in indiana you live), and it seems that january was below average temp's w/ more snow while february and march were above average temps w/ about the same frozen precipitation for february (march data on precipitation isn't available yet).

here's the data:

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ind/local_cli.php

Monthly Average Temperature Anomaly:

January:

2009: -3.5F

2008: 2.2F

February:

2009: 2.7F

2008: -1.4F

March:

2009: 5.5F (that's 5.5F hotter than normal)

2008: -1.3F

(edited for truthiness)

Precipitation:

January:

2009: 16.1 inches

2008: 4.8 inches

February:

2009: 5.6

2008: 5.4

March:

2009: ??? (data not available)

2008: 2.3

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that snake is going to owe me $100 by the end of the year.

so what's your point?

I don't have one. I was just saw your thread about warmer weather and it made me think about seeing snow flurries when I was walking out of the restaurant from lunch.

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The temp averages over the century were roughly matching 2008's #'s, but were the coldest since 1997, making it a far colder year then seen in the last 11 years. 2009's numbers are going to be even colder, and April is starting off chilly. You can see from these charts that over a 100 year record chart temps are roughly the same. But how can this be if we are experiencing Inhumane global warming?

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/2...emberstats.html

NOAA: 2008 Temperature for U.S. Near Average, was Coldest Since 1997; Below Average for December

January 8, 2009

The 2008 annual temperature for the contiguous United States was near average, while the temperature for December was below the long-term average, based on records dating back to 1895, according to a preliminary analysis by scientists at NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C.

U.S. Temperature Highlights – 2008

High resolution (Credit: NOAA)

The Central and Southern regions experienced below-average temperatures, while above-average temperatures were felt in the West, Southwest and Northeast. This resulted in a near average annual temperature for the contiguous U.S. and the coolest annual temperature since 1997. "

can you read?? honestly, do you have the capacity to comprehend the written word?

nobody disputes that 2008 was an especially cold year. however, even considering that it was especially cold, it was still the NINTH OR TENTH HOTTEST ON RECORD.

second, you are citing UNITED STATES TEMPERATURES. it's called GLOBAL WARMING, not AMERICAN WARMING.

second, YOUR OWN DATA SOURCE shows that january & february 2009 ave been HOTTER THAN LAST YEAR. you show a NOAA map for 2008, then claim that NOAA data for early 2009 is not trustworthy. once again, & maybe this will finally sink into your thick skull, here are the NOAA maps for january & february (which again are UNITED STATES data, not GLOBAL TEMPERATURES):

01statewidetrank_small.png

02Statewidetrank_pg.gif

beyond that, the most recent data show that GLOBAL TEMPERATURES were hotter in march 2009 than last year, despite all of your "it's snowing in march, lawlz my pool is frozen" bulls***.

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http://news.mongabay.com/2009/0127-temperature.html

It has been found out that NASA's own guru was tweaking his collection practices to permit temps takin during the days, devices over heating grates and restuarants, etc. to show higher temps.

No, it hasn't, and you saying it doesn't make it true.

Also, temp increases have not been limited to just daytime hours, but also night time. Another indicator of a greenhouse induced warming as opposed to just solar.

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2008 was the coolest year since 2000 but still ranks in the top ten warmest years since record-keeping began in 1880, reported NASA last week.

The agency's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) released a map showing global temperature anomalies in 2008 compared to the 1950-1980 baseline period. The regions with the greatest warming included Eastern Europe, Russia, the Arctic, and the Antarctic Peninsula. Large areas of the central and eastern Pacific Ocean were cooler than the long-term average, a result of a La Niña event that began in 2007. Relative coolness is expected to continue into early 2009 but the researchers predict that a new global temperature record will be set in the next 1-2 years.

http://news.mongabay.com/2009/0127-temperature.html

Now, this news can only be based on records since the 1978-79 years cause thats considered the year global temps were actually takin with somewhat standard practices and decent equipment. It has been found out that NASA's own guru was tweaking his collection practices to permit temps takin during the days, devices over heating grates and restuarants, etc. to show higher temps. Basically this is known. We have had a less then 1 degree swing in temperature, GLOBALLY, in 150 years, FOLLOWING a mini ice age that lasted some 400 years. OH MY GOD, the sky must be falling. :D

who's talking about GISS? we're talking about NOAA data, data that YOU HAVE CITED AS CREDIBLE, data that shows the first two months of this year to be HOTTER THAN LAST YEAR.

it's funny how badly you twist yourself into a pretzel over this stuff. here's your argument in a nutshell:

we're cooling b/c hansen is a bad guy. we're not warming, but the warming you see is fabricated data. look at NOAA data for 2008, but ignore NOAA's own writeup showing how it was in the top ten hottest years b/c even though NOAA isn't associated with GISS the guy from GISS is a bad guy so we must be cooling. 2009 will be cooler than 2008 b/c it snowed a few times in atlanta. look at the NOAA data for 2008, but ignore NOAA data for january & february 2009 b/c that shows warming & we can't be warming because the guy from GISS is bad & even though he has nothing to do w/ NOAA he's a bad guy so we must be cooling.

jesus jumped-up christ, have you ever read the crap you type? b/c it literally makes zero logical sense.

the FACT is that despite 2008 being an "especially cold year", it still ranks in the top ten warmest years on record. the FACT is that the first three months of 2009 have been hotter than last year. the FACT is that both of those statements are supported by data that YOU CONTINUE TO CITE AS CREDIBLE (e.g., NOAA).

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No, it hasn't, and you saying it doesn't make it true.

Also, temp increases have not been limited to just daytime hours, but also night time. Another indicator of a greenhouse induced warming as opposed to just solar.

the hillarious thing is that even if you accept snake's argument against hansen & accept NOAA as the source of record (which he does, evidenced by the fact that he keeps posting their US graph from 2008), then his argument still falls flat b/c NOAA data show that 2009 is warmer than 2008.

IOW, even if we believe his crazy conspiracy BS about hansen, he is still proven wrong by the data that he himself quotes to "prove" his argument.

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