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Comparison of QB's


Izo#2883
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Not your average post!

After yet another week where Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco is up for ROW again, I wanted to take a closer look at the highlights for each of them. This isnt designed to diss either of them or showboat my homerism for Matt Ryan, but I really wanted to see what makes them standout the way they have in their rookie seasons.

Presentation from NFL.com:

- Flacco completed 17 of 25 passes for 149 yards and a touchdown as the Ravens defeated the Dallas Cowboys 33-24.

- Ryan completed 13 of 24 passes for 134 yards and a touchdown as the Falcons defeated the Minnesota Vikings 24-17.

When watching the highlights (for what its worth) of Joe Flacco some things stand out clearly:

- Joe Flacco extends plays by leaving the pocket quite often.

- He delivers accurate passes on the move (2 from the highlights were spot on).

- On more than 2 occasions, 1 being a TD pass, the reciever is waving his hands to get the pass thrown his way.

- Alot of completions come from comeback routes.

- It doesnt seem to me that he is 'selling' his fake handoffs to the back.

- Had a beautiful pass to Todd Heap in stride over the middle and in traffic (marquee play by both imo).

- Rushed for a first down in the 3rd quarter, ironically enough, coming off a fake handoff.

- He did this against the Cowboys, on their home turf.

Watching the highlights of Matt Ryan some things standout clearly:

- Matt Ryan seems to rely alot on the number of steps he gets back, seldomly leaving the pocket (which usually never collapses).

- His TD came from a shuffle pass to Jerious Norwood.

- Delivered an accurate pass to Finneran in stride on an out route after pressure from the Vikings right DE.

- After pressure from the Vikings right side, he scrambles to the right avoiding the sack and delivers an accurate pass to White, whom picks up a first down.

- Throws a pass to Jenkins on his backfoot, whom recieves it in stride covered by a Ravens DB and MLB, this near the two minute warning in the second quarter (marquee play by both imo).

- On a fake handoff to Turner the Vikings D stuff for the run, making it possible for White to recieve the pass down the middle for a first.

- On a second and goal in the third quarter he scrambles from the 12 yard line down to the one and fumbles in mid air. Blalock eventually gets the ball and TD ATL.

- He did this against the Vikings on their home turf.

They both share the ability to extend plays should the pocket collapse. They have a high accuracy when passing out of the pocket and on the move (this happens a bit more for Joe Flacco) and they are both able to put the zip on their passes and set em high where only their designated WR/TE can reach em.

Matt Ryan:

- seem to be more present in the pocket, and rely heavily on the dropback and counts, making it very seldom that his WR stand still when recieving the ball. He binds the opposing D to his handoffs, making the fakes ever so dangerous (Might be his area of expertice). (Time on progression and read number??)

Joe Flacco:

- scrambles alot, and does a gj on extending plays when the pocket collapses either by passin on the move or picking up a first down (might be area of expertice). Shows a tendency to deliver the pass when the WR/TE is already open and not before the cut. (Time on progression and read number??)

Now I need some help with defining how the two of them, is handling their progressions as I dont quite know how to figure out what players are designated for what on each play. Might be a playbook secret or just a football thing, where Im not quite there yet, but either way I really want to know :) Billick sometimes states that Ryan is on his 3rd and 4th read, so I guess its possible?

Thing is that both QB's are good at what they do and the style of offense they run, and I enjoy watching them both. I think they both have great futures ahead of them, but I strongly feel that there is a difference between the two in the way they handle their progressions and what read they utilize. Therefore if anybody could, in a semi scientific manner or via game tape review, help me search for the answer.

I really enjoy the discussion, so please bring your feedback and comments!

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The 3rd or 4th read is almost always a dump off to a back out the backfield. It's impossible to know what order the reads go in because they are different for each play. Some plays are designed where the TE is the #1 read. Some plays are designed where the Z receiver is the #1 read. Some plays are designed where the flanker is the #1 read. Like I said it just depends on the play.

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The 3rd or 4th read is almost always a dump off to a back out the backfield. It's impossible to know what order the reads go in because they are different for each play. Some plays are designed where the TE is the #1 read. Some plays are designed where the Z receiver is the #1 read. Some plays are designed where the flanker is the #1 read. Like I said it just depends on the play.

Ok, I see the problem then. Im gonna see how long time they use on their release on key situations.

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Ok this is purely from watching highlights and doesnt give an exact general time on their release, but its what I got to work from:

Joe Flacco highlights show 9 throws:

1,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5 - the time he uses on his dropback and pass is approximately 3.6 seconds.

Matt Ryan highlights show 7 throws:

1,1,2,2,3,3,4 - the time he uses on his dropback and pass is approximately 2.3 seconds.

There is an uneven number of throws to derive data from, and given the different nature of plays this isnt a bulletproof way of measuring. But given what it is, Matt Ryan uses more than a second less to dropback and release his pass, which coexists perfectly with the notion that Joe Flacco scrambles alot more than Ryan, thus extending the play and time used to pass.

Dont know if its a positive thing though.

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Ok this is purely from watching highlights and doesnt give an exact general time on their release, but its what I got to work from:

Joe Flacco highlights show 9 throws:

1,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5 - the time he uses on his dropback and pass is approximately 3.6 seconds.

Matt Ryan highlights show 7 throws:

1,1,2,2,3,3,4 - the time he uses on his dropback and pass is approximately 2.3 seconds.

There is an uneven number of throws to derive data from, and given the different nature of plays this isnt a bulletproof way of measuring. But given what it is, Matt Ryan uses more than a second less to dropback and release his pass, which coexists perfectly with the notion that Joe Flacco scrambles alot more than Ryan, thus extending the play and time used to pass.

Dont know if its a positive thing though.

It is a positive thing. Matt getting rid of the ball that quickly has allowed him to avoid a bunch of big hits and sacks. I saw a show comparing the time from when Matt gets rid of the ball compared to Ben Roethlisberger and Matt blew him out of the water. Add in the fact that the Steelers OL sucks and you have a recipe for a ton of sacks and Ben is right up there for most times sacked this year.

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So if Flacco manages to get the Ravens past the firs round in the playoffs, and Ryan doesnt. Would that tip the scale in favor of Flacco?

Somehow I cannot stop thinking that the Ravens defense, hands the ball over to Flacco alot more than here our own D doing the same. Would that be a correct assumption?

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So if Flacco manages to get the Ravens past the firs round in the playoffs, and Ryan doesnt. Would that tip the scale in favor of Flacco?

Somehow I cannot stop thinking that the Ravens defense, hands the ball over to Flacco alot more than here our own D doing the same. Would that be a correct assumption?

I agree with you 100%. So much so that Jamie Dukes and Rod Woodson put Matt Ryan down and said Flacco was more ready for the playoffs because he had a better defense. If that's not unjustified I don't know what is.

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So if Flacco manages to get the Ravens past the firs round in the playoffs, and Ryan doesnt. Would that tip the scale in favor of Flacco?

Somehow I cannot stop thinking that the Ravens defense, hands the ball over to Flacco alot more than here our own D doing the same. Would that be a correct assumption?

The Ravens D is top 3 in the NFL, our D is like 15-18

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