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Can we intelligently discuss our D-line


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Things are getting a little ridiculous when it comes to discussing, in my opinion, the weakest link of this team. The defensive line. We are 10 games into the season and some pretty evident trends are becoming apparent. I understand people being homers. I'm one at heart too. I can understand people being critical of certain players, but not down right negative (well, unless it's adam jennings). Also, the entire stats thing is just dumb. For one thing the NFL doesn’t even have criteria for what a tackle is. That's why you can look at the total plays defended and the number of tackles and there are always more tackles than plays defended. And no that does not include assists, that's solo tackles. How can a team have 565 plays defended and over 600 solo tackles recorded? It's because stats are fun to look at but almost worthless!!!

With the exception of Abe I think our entire D-line is average to not very good. The coaches have implemented a system to do the best with what they have and sometimes the outcome is better than others. Although I personally am not willing to call JA98 a bust, he appears to not be very good. Given that this is only his second year he needs time to get some game experience and see if he gets better. JA98 looks slow on many plays, he does not deliver blows but receives them from the Olineman, his pursuit is not very good, he loses contain way to often and gets driven backwards often. All in all our Dline is getting pushed around on running plays. Grady can stand his ground but lately he is looking slow and hurt. I don't think his legs have much left in them. Our pass rush is less than adequate. We did get some pressure in the NO game, but Brees was checking down to his 3rd and 4th receiver on almost every play. He had way to much time and a lot of that pressure was caused by the coverage down field.

The coaches are always going to say that the team did a good job, even if they know there is a glaring weakness. No one wants to play for a coach that calls them out on every play. I think that right now Abe could start on most other NFL teams but other than him at the most we might have a couple of 2nd stringers. I'm expecting at least 2DT's and 1DE to be picked up in the off season.

This is just my opinion. I might be wrong. Please, discuss.

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Things are getting a little ridiculous when it comes to discussing, in my opinion, the weakest link of this team. The defensive line. We are 10 games into the season and some pretty evident trends are becoming apparent. I understand people being homers. I'm one at heart too. I can understand people being critical of certain players, but not down right negative (well, unless it's adam jennings). Also, the entire stats thing is just dumb. For one thing the NFL doesn’t even have criteria for what a tackle is. That's why you can look at the total plays defended and the number of tackles and there are always more tackles than plays defended. And no that does not include assists, that's solo tackles. How can a team have 565 plays defended and over 600 solo tackles recorded? It's because stats are fun to look at but almost worthless!!!

With the exception of Abe I think our entire D-line is average to not very good. The coaches have implemented a system to do the best with what they have and sometimes the outcome is better than others. Although I personally am not willing to call JA98 a bust, he appears to not be very good. Given that this is only his second year he needs time to get some game experience and see if he gets better. JA98 looks slow on many plays, he does not deliver blows but receives them from the Olineman, his pursuit is not very good, he loses contain way to often and gets driven backwards often. All in all our Dline is getting pushed around on running plays. Grady can stand his ground but lately he is looking slow and hurt. I don't think his legs have much left in them. Our pass rush is less than adequate. We did get some pressure in the NO game, but Brees was checking down to his 3rd and 4th receiver on almost every play. He had way to much time and a lot of that pressure was caused by the coverage down field.

The coaches are always going to say that the team did a good job, even if they know there is a glaring weakness. No one wants to play for a coach that calls them out on every play. I think that right now Abe could start on most other NFL teams but other than him at the most we might have a couple of 2nd stringers. I'm expecting at least 2DT's and 1DE to be picked up in the off season.

This is just my opinion. I might be wrong. Please, discuss.

TWO WORDS: IT SUCKS. ENOUGH SAID

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Things are getting a little ridiculous when it comes to discussing, in my opinion, the weakest link of this team. The defensive line. We are 10 games into the season and some pretty evident trends are becoming apparent. I understand people being homers. I'm one at heart too. I can understand people being critical of certain players, but not down right negative (well, unless it's adam jennings). Also, the entire stats thing is just dumb. For one thing the NFL doesn’t even have criteria for what a tackle is. That's why you can look at the total plays defended and the number of tackles and there are always more tackles than plays defended. And no that does not include assists, that's solo tackles. How can a team have 565 plays defended and over 600 solo tackles recorded? It's because stats are fun to look at but almost worthless!!!

With the exception of Abe I think our entire D-line is average to not very good. The coaches have implemented a system to do the best with what they have and sometimes the outcome is better than others. Although I personally am not willing to call JA98 a bust, he appears to not be very good. Given that this is only his second year he needs time to get some game experience and see if he gets better. JA98 looks slow on many plays, he does not deliver blows but receives them from the Olineman, his pursuit is not very good, he loses contain way to often and gets driven backwards often. All in all our Dline is getting pushed around on running plays. Grady can stand his ground but lately he is looking slow and hurt. I don't think his legs have much left in them. Our pass rush is less than adequate. We did get some pressure in the NO game, but Brees was checking down to his 3rd and 4th receiver on almost every play. He had way to much time and a lot of that pressure was caused by the coverage down field.

The coaches are always going to say that the team did a good job, even if they know there is a glaring weakness. No one wants to play for a coach that calls them out on every play. I think that right now Abe could start on most other NFL teams but other than him at the most we might have a couple of 2nd stringers. I'm expecting at least 2DT's and 1DE to be picked up in the off season.

This is just my opinion. I might be wrong. Please, discuss.

You make valid points. However you can forget having an intelligent discussion about our D-line. Mainly because half the posters on these boards think JA98 is the 2nd coming of Michael Strahan.

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Things are getting a little ridiculous when it comes to discussing, in my opinion, the weakest link of this team. The defensive line. We are 10 games into the season and some pretty evident trends are becoming apparent. I understand people being homers. I'm one at heart too. I can understand people being critical of certain players, but not down right negative (well, unless it's adam jennings). Also, the entire stats thing is just dumb. For one thing the NFL doesn’t even have criteria for what a tackle is. That's why you can look at the total plays defended and the number of tackles and there are always more tackles than plays defended. And no that does not include assists, that's solo tackles. How can a team have 565 plays defended and over 600 solo tackles recorded? It's because stats are fun to look at but almost worthless!!!

With the exception of Abe I think our entire D-line is average to not very good. The coaches have implemented a system to do the best with what they have and sometimes the outcome is better than others. Although I personally am not willing to call JA98 a bust, he appears to not be very good. Given that this is only his second year he needs time to get some game experience and see if he gets better. JA98 looks slow on many plays, he does not deliver blows but receives them from the Olineman, his pursuit is not very good, he loses contain way to often and gets driven backwards often. All in all our Dline is getting pushed around on running plays. Grady can stand his ground but lately he is looking slow and hurt. I don't think his legs have much left in them. Our pass rush is less than adequate. We did get some pressure in the NO game, but Brees was checking down to his 3rd and 4th receiver on almost every play. He had way to much time and a lot of that pressure was caused by the coverage down field.

The coaches are always going to say that the team did a good job, even if they know there is a glaring weakness. No one wants to play for a coach that calls them out on every play. I think that right now Abe could start on most other NFL teams but other than him at the most we might have a couple of 2nd stringers. I'm expecting at least 2DT's and 1DE to be picked up in the off season.

This is just my opinion. I might be wrong. Please, discuss.

This year JA98 is playing pretty well against the run but I agree he is too slow. I don't know if it's physical or mental, maybe he takes too long to read the play.

Babs is playing OK but I agree he would be a backup on two thirds of NFL teams.

Grady is definitely playing hurt but he's better than any other DT we have even on one leg. If Biermann could gain 25 lbs and keep his speed, next year he could help at DE.

2 DT's and a DE are primary needs. If we see that I'm sure Dimitroff sees it.

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You make valid points. However you can forget having an intelligent discussion about our D-line. Mainly because half the posters on these boards think JA98 is the 2nd coming of Michael Strahan.

People think he has potential, as do I. Just because we think that doesnt mean we think hes the "2nd coming of strahan" He showed in that 1 game.... yes I know only 1 game of many.... but showed he can do some damage. Just has to stay consistent. How long are the Falcons going to wait on him? Who knows..... I hope for his and the teams sake that he turns is around.

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What concerns me most this week is the DTs. Two Jackson and Moorehead are hurting and did not practice Wed.

Do not know about today If they play sunday they will not be at 100% so that is scary.

That leaves only two at 100% Babs and Jefferson

At DE Abe is hurting also but did limited practice on Wed.

I believe the D-line MUST be addressed this off season.

Do not understand adding W. Evans to PS unless he can play DT as well as DE.

Maybe there just isn't any DTs out there.

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You make valid points. However you can forget having an intelligent discussion about our D-line. Mainly because half the posters on these boards think JA98 is the 2nd coming of Michael Strahan.

And the other half think he's the second coming of Ryan Leaf... playing defensive end.

He's not that good... he's not that bad.

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I didnt want to only focus on JA98, but he is a hot topic. I think he has shown promise, but no consistency. The fact that he dosent have many sacks dosent alarm me as much as when he gets blown off the ball or sucked in and losses contain. The two things a DE must never do is get pushed backwards and lose contain. At times he does look like he is trying to read the Dlineman instead of bull rush, which will make him look a little slower, but you can't let the Olineman get under your center of gravity and drive you backwards. He has be doing this a lot. It just dosent look like he has caught up to the speed of the NFL game yet and I'm not sure he will be able to.

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I didnt want to only focus on JA98, but he is a hot topic. I think he has shown promise, but no consistency. The fact that he dosent have many sacks dosent alarm me as much as when he gets blown off the ball or sucked in and losses contain. The two things a DE must never do is get pushed backwards and lose contain. At times he does look like he is trying to read the Dlineman instead of bull rush, which will make him look a little slower, but you can't let the Olineman get under your center of gravity and drive you backwards. He has be doing this a lot. It just dosent look like he has caught up to the speed of the NFL game yet and I'm not sure he will be able to.

What if anderson isnt supposed to contain?Maybe hes assigned to cover the back incase of a screen.Do you know his assignments on each play to figure out if he blew it?Before you mentioned the lack of pressure in the saints game.They were the #1 passing team in the nfl when we played them.Sure we need help.Babs is a player,we need him.Hes up for freeagency.Jackson shouldnt have been resigned in my opion.There always seems to be a injury,lawsuit or something going on with him.You cant throw abe out of the mix when you evaluate the line.

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Look guys, we all knew that this team had to be rebuilt from the ground up, so this is no surprise. We got the front office squared away and a HC who has began to establish a culture of winning. Then we got a QB who will lead this team to the postseason for years to come. Our record is only a bonus. We already knew that it would take 2 or 3 offseasons to make this team reputable. We've just gotten a little too excited based on our performance thus far, but we have to get back to reality, here. Rest assure, though, that TD sees the same weaknesses we do, and between Coach Smith, AB, and TD, we'll get it turned around. Just gotta continue to have a little patience.

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I'm pretty sure out D-Line will be on the top of the to do list for the off season this year... TD will get it fixed.

As if they haven't tried in 08

Willy Evans signed cut signed to PS

Rashard Moore signed cut

Simon Fraser signed active

Tim Anderson signed cut

Mo Stanley signed cut

Kroy Bierman drafted active

B. Miller signed moved to PS active cut

Grady Jackson Signed active

Jeff Jefferson signed active

Sean Conover on PS cut

J'vonne Parker on PS

When will they get it right???

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What if anderson isnt supposed to contain?Maybe hes assigned to cover the back incase of a screen.Do you know his assignments on each play to figure out if he blew it?Before you mentioned the lack of pressure in the saints game.They were the #1 passing team in the nfl when we played them.Sure we need help.Babs is a player,we need him.Hes up for freeagency.Jackson shouldnt have been resigned in my opion.There always seems to be a injury,lawsuit or something going on with him.You cant throw abe out of the mix when you evaluate the line.

Contain refers to run defense. The DE is responsible on all running plays for keeping the RB inside the box. The DE either has to make the tackle before the RB "turns the corner" or force the RB inside where pursuit can make the tackle. The DE is not necessarily responsible for making the tackle but is responsible for not letting the RB get outside. The DE has to be able to fight off blocks, often multiple blocks, to force the runner in. It is generally considered a bad match up to have a CB responsible for tackling a RB and therefore the need for the DE to force the RB into the LB's who should be pursuing. JA98 gets what is called "hooked" way too many times. That's when the Olineman or lead block gets his head across the body of the DE and turns him inside allowing a lane to open up where the RB can turn the corner and pick up yardage. If a DE never got a sack, but also never got hooked and was able to always turn the RB inside he would be a superstar.

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Look guys, we all knew that this team had to be rebuilt from the ground up, so this is no surprise. We got the front office squared away and a HC who has began to establish a culture of winning. Then we got a QB who will lead this team to the postseason for years to come. Our record is only a bonus. We already knew that it would take 2 or 3 offseasons to make this team reputable. We've just gotten a little too excited based on our performance thus far, but we have to get back to reality, here. Rest assure, though, that TD sees the same weaknesses we do, and between Coach Smith, AB, and TD, we'll get it turned around. Just gotta continue to have a little patience.

Completely agree with you 100%.

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Like others, I'm saying it's going to take a couple years to build lines that are stout. Our Oline is better w/Baker - that's obvious. The D-line is better w/Jackson & Morehead in there, but I still think it could use some work, especially in terms of pass rushing. Trey Lewis was showing promise, but who knows? I guess it takes time to build depth on the bench, but I've seen that as a problem for nearly as many years as I've been watching the Falcons. Always seem to have great starters and a few stars, but not truly quality depth coming off the bench. True contending teams don't seem to have this problem. It's more seamless if one of their "star" guys gets hurt & is out. Umenyiora (sp?) as a prime example. Giants don't look like they're hurting much w/out him.

Oh yeah, and for falconkiller90 - Steve Smith has an APB out on you. He's waitin' on his afternoon knob polishin'.

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As if they haven't tried in 08

Willy Evans signed cut signed to PS

Rashard Moore signed cut

Simon Fraser signed active

Tim Anderson signed cut

Mo Stanley signed cut

Kroy Bierman drafted active

B. Miller signed moved to PS active cut

Grady Jackson Signed active

Jeff Jefferson signed active

Sean Conover on PS cut

J'vonne Parker on PS

When will they get it right???

Dude you just proved your own point right there. Look at the names they are journeyman at BEST. I like Grady alot but all the other names are laughable. In week 11 there is not quility players available. Even at the begining of the season there is not. Im sure the FO wasnt expecting Trey Lewis to miss another year because he did look pretty good last year. This offseason you will get your wish trust me. They will make a splash or two in FA and build through the draft. We will be in search for a better DT if that is either in the draft or FA who knows. We cant sign everyone in 1 offseason too boot. Plus that isnt our style to sign alot of FA. I think we hit the SMALL jackpot on Erick Coleman and Harvey Dahl. There is always players out there that just dont get a chance with their previos teams maybe that team got a new coach or they just didnt want to resign them. We will be fine in the long run.

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Things are getting a little ridiculous when it comes to discussing, in my opinion, the weakest link of this team. The defensive line. We are 10 games into the season and some pretty evident trends are becoming apparent. I understand people being homers. I'm one at heart too. I can understand people being critical of certain players, but not down right negative (well, unless it's adam jennings). Also, the entire stats thing is just dumb. For one thing the NFL doesn’t even have criteria for what a tackle is. That's why you can look at the total plays defended and the number of tackles and there are always more tackles than plays defended. And no that does not include assists, that's solo tackles. How can a team have 565 plays defended and over 600 solo tackles recorded? It's because stats are fun to look at but almost worthless!!!

With the exception of Abe I think our entire D-line is average to not very good. The coaches have implemented a system to do the best with what they have and sometimes the outcome is better than others. Although I personally am not willing to call JA98 a bust, he appears to not be very good. Given that this is only his second year he needs time to get some game experience and see if he gets better. JA98 looks slow on many plays, he does not deliver blows but receives them from the Olineman, his pursuit is not very good, he loses contain way to often and gets driven backwards often. All in all our Dline is getting pushed around on running plays. Grady can stand his ground but lately he is looking slow and hurt. I don't think his legs have much left in them. Our pass rush is less than adequate. We did get some pressure in the NO game, but Brees was checking down to his 3rd and 4th receiver on almost every play. He had way to much time and a lot of that pressure was caused by the coverage down field.

The coaches are always going to say that the team did a good job, even if they know there is a glaring weakness. No one wants to play for a coach that calls them out on every play. I think that right now Abe could start on most other NFL teams but other than him at the most we might have a couple of 2nd stringers. I'm expecting at least 2DT's and 1DE to be picked up in the off season.

This is just my opinion. I might be wrong. Please, discuss.

I'll go out on a limb here and agree with you. Abe is monster, Babs is having a nice year, and then you get zilch. Grady doesn't play many snaps that is when he can play in a game at all, and he is about to be suspended for four games. JA has two sacks that were pretty much coverage sacks. I can't decide if he is always chasing plays because he is trying hard and playing to the whistle or just getting beat. Moorehead is hurt, and just a placeholder. It needs 1st day or free agent help in a bad way. I believe we will see that happen in the offseason. Imagine if we had a monster on the interrior D-line, shoot.

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This year JA98 is playing pretty well against the run but I agree he is too slow. I don't know if it's physical or mental, maybe he takes too long to read the play.

Babs is playing OK but I agree he would be a backup on two thirds of NFL teams.

Grady is definitely playing hurt but he's better than any other DT we have even on one leg. If Biermann could gain 25 lbs and keep his speed, next year he could help at DE.

2 DT's and a DE are primary needs. If we see that I'm sure Dimitroff sees it.

I can't see us getting all of that. I think we will get the best D-line available when we get to pick. If there is a future Dwight Freeney there I feel bad for Jamaal, but not that bad. He had more of a chance then I ever did. Personally I am hoping that kid Cody from Alabama is there. With a monster in the interrrior that can't be ignored a lot of pressure would be off Jamaal. But Dimitroff and Smith are going to get the best players for the needs they see. No one has a seat saved for them here, you have to earn it.

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Dude you just proved your own point right there. Look at the names they are journeyman at BEST. I like Grady alot but all the other names are laughable. In week 11 there is not quility players available. Even at the begining of the season there is not. Im sure the FO wasnt expecting Trey Lewis to miss another year because he did look pretty good last year. This offseason you will get your wish trust me. They will make a splash or two in FA and build through the draft. We will be in search for a better DT if that is either in the draft or FA who knows. We cant sign everyone in 1 offseason too boot. Plus that isnt our style to sign alot of FA. I think we hit the SMALL jackpot on Erick Coleman and Harvey Dahl. There is always players out there that just dont get a chance with their previos teams maybe that team got a new coach or they just didnt want to resign them. We will be fine in the long run.

How do we know their trying in 09 will be any better that their trying in 08? I mean 5,6,7,8 FA signings were

Moorehead

Moore Cut

Fraser inactive most games

Tim Anderson cut

Dahl Was a Falcon in 07, contract still good in 08 no resign required

There have been about 75 signings in 08 11 draftees and 14 former Falcons (approximately) many cut along the way BUT

they do seem to be able to sign more than a few FAs each years

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