How bad is Keith Brooking? The numbers don't lie!

[SCfalconfan]

When a player restructures earlier in their career to help the team get under the salary cap that is soon forgotten and they are criticized at the end of their contract. Maybe people don't understand that when they restructure they take more of a signing bonus from the salary reducing it in that years cap and push it back towards the end of their contract. Some things will never change regardless of who the player is or what they have contributed to the team over their 10+ years.

You act like there isn't a benefit to the player to restrucutre? They essentially guarantee part of their contract when they do and they generally get all of that money at the time of the restrucutre instead of having to wait for it. Not like its a selfless act on the part of the player or that "he's taking one for the team".

[SCfalconfan]

Exactly, if anyone wants to complain about wasted cap space let's take a look at the contract of a player who's sitting in prison right now. If anything is going to prevent FA signings it's going to be that contract not the one Brooking has.

I don't think his contract counts toward the salary cap since he's suspended.

[infidel]

Is he lying?

No, but its a gazoo level manipulation of the facts.

I'm not going to say that he hasn't lost a step, but this is almost claiming that Brooking was never a good player. Seems to me that maybe the guy focuses more on making the tackle than trying to make the home run INT, a move that we've seen so many times end up as a big gain.

More often than not, when Brooking gets to someone, they go down. Rarely does he wiff (and they all wiff sometimes).

That said, he's not and never was on the level of Ray Lewis. But to claim he's a bad player is simply dishonest.

[Rockford]

You act like there isn't a benefit to the player to restrucutre? They essentially guarantee part of their contract when they do and they generally get all of that money at the time of the restrucutre instead of having to wait for it. Not like its a selfless act on the part of the player or that "he's taking one for the team".

YOu really are determined to give Brooking credit in NO area, aren't you? Its bits like that that make the Trolling designation a bit more certain. . .

[Fanboy3000]

I'm a huge fan of Keith Brooking for everything he's meant to this team and city. But when looking at the team and positions that could be upgraded, WLB is one of the first that stands out. I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

We need depth on the OL, possibly a new center at some point though McClure is still playing at a very high level.

We need depth on the DL, with replacement/understudy for Grady. The jury is still out on another starting DE.

WRs - look fairly solid.

RBs - look very solid.

QBs - look very solid.

CBs - look fairly solid.

S - looks like we need someone to groom under Lawyer. I've been fairly impressed with Coleman, and we may have his replacement if necessary in Decoud.

TE looks like we could upgrade, though I don't think it ranks as a priority with the way this offense prioritizes TEs.

That leaves LB. I don't think Nicholas is the future at WLB. I used to think so, but it seems like if we wanted to groom him there, that's where he would be on the depth chart. You'd want to get him more reps there, and with Brooking aging you'd think there's a better chance of us needing him there at some point. But instead we've put him at SLB, which makes me think the coaches don't see him as a starter at WLB, or they're at least contemplating not resigning Boley and want Nicholas to get more work over there.

MLB is clearly set.

None of this matters until the offseason though. Brooking is in there and will remain there in all probability until at least the end of the season.

[SCfalconfan]

YOu really are determined to give Brooking credit in NO area, aren't you? Its bits like that that make the Trolling designation a bit more certain. . .

What part of my post about restructuring is not factual?

In the past I always considered Brooking a slightly above average NFL LB, but no where near the elite status of Lewis, Urlacher, Briggs, or Bullock (though Briggs and Bullock came along later). Unfortunately he was paid like those players. To take one of your comparisons, they are not only the meat and potatoes but also the sauce.

[rugger8]

Is he lying?

Actually yeah. Not to mention omitting the fact that Brooking continues to lead in tackles.

[FalconFanSince1970]

. . .and here comes the irrelevant salary issue again.

Irrelevent? You gotta be kidding me. Every professional sport with a salary cap closely manages salary issues. It is very common for teams to make decisions on cuts, trades and restructures based on salary.

It's also very common for older high salaried vets in a production decline to get restructured, traded or released. This is not a new concept. Just look back nine months ago when we let Crump, Dunn and Coleman go. The only reason Brooking survived that wave of cuts is because we only had one other experienced veteran LB on the squad. Turns out the rookie is better than him and Boley.

Face it folks. Brooking's time is here. It was here two years ago. Watch the tapes. Look at the putrid stats posted at the top of this thread.

[chifalc]

Irrelevent? You gotta be kidding me. Every professional sport with a salary cap closely manages salary issues. It is very common for teams to make decisions on cuts, trades and restructures based on salary.

It's also very common that older high salaried vets in a production decline get restructured, traded or released. This is not a new concept. Just look back nine months ago when we let Crump, Dunn and Coleman go. The only reason Brooking survived that wave of cuts is because we only had one other experienced veteran LB on the squad. Turns out the rookie is better than him and Boley.

Face it folks. Brooking's time is here. It was here two years ago. Watch the tapes. Look at the putrid stats posted at the top of this thread. It's clear. Nicholas could out play him right now. So could probably Shiney McShine. Don't worry this will all be over in January.

Again. Name the player we were unable to sign that we had interest in due to Brooking's salary? THe question keeps getting asked but noone even tries to answer it.

[BruceReville]

Irrelevent? You gotta be kidding me. Every professional sport with a salary cap closely manages salary issues. It is very common for teams to make decisions on cuts, trades and restructures based on salary.

It's also very common that older high salaried vets in a production decline get restructured, traded or released. This is not a new concept. Just look back nine months ago when we let Crump, Dunn and Coleman go. The only reason Brooking survived that wave of cuts is because we only had one other experienced veteran LB on the squad. Turns out the rookie is better than him and Boley.

Face it folks. Brooking's time is here. It was here two years ago. Watch the tapes. Look at the putrid stats posted at the top of this thread. It's clear. Nicholas could out play him right now. So could probably Shiney McShine. Don't worry this will all be over in January.

Brooking restructured his contract in 2004 & 2006 -- how many more times do you think he should restructure?

[FalconFanSince1970]

Again. Name the player we were unable to sign that we had interest in due to Brooking's salary? THe question keeps getting asked but noone even tries to anser it.

Wait a minute. You're switching the subject from salary is irrelevant to name a player we couldn't sign. Recant that statement first then I'll name about 45 players we couldn't sign because of his cap hit.

It's probably the highest cap hit on the team. Come on bro we just let Kerney go a couple years ago because of his cap hit. He blew three out of the last four years he was here but he was still performing at a higher level than Brooking.

[FalconFanSince1970]

Brooking restructured his contract in 2004 & 2006 -- how many more times do you think he should restructure?

As many as it takes to get to an equal value for his production. He is probably somewhere between $7-9M now and performing at a $400K level.

Wait a minute. Actually I don't want him to restructure unless he blazes up in these last seven games. If not I want to hoist his banner to the roof, give him his gold watch and then do a parade in Coweta County.

Brooking is my third favorite Falcon LB of all time. Only trailing Jesse and Tommy. I vehemently supported him when he was productive. It's time.

[chifalc]

Wait a minute. You're switching the subject from salary is irrelevant to name a player we couldn't sign. Recant that statement first then I'll name about 45 players we couldn't sign because of his cap hit.

It's probably the highest cap hit on the team. Come on bro we just let Kerney go a couple years ago because of his cap hit. He blew three out of the last four years he was here but he was still performing at a higher level than Brooking.

It isn't switching the topic. Its only relevant if it actually effects us. That some other team is effected is NOT relevant. And frankly, if it effected THIS team a few years back is irrelevant. Is it effecting the team NOW? Has it prevented us from building the team that was wanted NOW?

WHy the **** should I recant that? And I also stipulated THAT we were going to go after anyway, not ones that were on your little fantasy wishlist.

[BruceReville]

Wait a minute. You're switching the subject from salary is irrelevant to name a player we couldn't sign. Recant that statement first then I'll name about 45 players we couldn't sign because of his cap hit.

It's probably the highest cap hit on the team. Come on bro we just let Kerney go a couple years ago because of his cap hit. He blew three out of the last four years he was here but he was still performing at a higher level than Brooking.

We didn't let Kerney go he opted out of the last 2 years of his contract - the Falcons had nothing to do with that.

[BruceReville]

As many as it takes to get to an equal value for his production. He is probably somewhere between $7-9M now and performing at a $400K level.

Wait a minute. Actually I don't want him to restructure unless he blazes up in these last seven games. If not I want to hoist his banner to the roof, give him his gold watch and then do a parade in Coweta County.

Brooking is my third favorite Falcon LB of all time. Only trailing Jesse and Tommy. I vehemently supported him when he was productive. It's time.

He couldn't restructure anyhow with only 1 year remaining after this season on his contract. He could however sign a contract extension and pro-rate out his cap hit from there.

And I agree he has lost a step - but it would be more beneficial to groom someone into his slot than just to thrust someone into the situation and hope it works out for you. (ala Doug Johnson 2003)

[phattywankenobi]

You act like there isn't a benefit to the player to restrucutre? They essentially guarantee part of their contract when they do and they generally get all of that money at the time of the restrucutre instead of having to wait for it. Not like its a selfless act on the part of the player or that "he's taking one for the team".

I am not acting but you are definitely assuming. In fact I mentioned him taking more of a signing bonus early. You need to pick a side of the fence you can't have both. Either we are talking about what goes into his bank account or what affects the cap space. The cap space was reduced in 2004 and 2006 only to be pushed back to the later years. Well, it's the later years. Players are often underpaid early on and if they last long enough are usually a tremendous cap burden.

You can't apply the contract of an NFL player to buying a cheeseburger logic.

[FalconFanSince1970]

It isn't switching the topic. Its only relevant if it actually effects us. That some other team is effected is NOT relevant. And frankly, if it effected THIS team a few years back is irrelevant. Is it effecting the team NOW? Has it prevented us from building the team that was wanted NOW?

WHy the **** should I recant that? And I also stipulated THAT we were going to go after anyway, not ones that were on your little fantasy wishlist.

How is paying an underachieving player $8M not affecting us in a league that has a salary cap?

If he was let go with Dunn, Crump, Coleman and Hall we would have had even more cap dollars to go after players like Turner.

You should recant the statement 'salary is irrelevent'. That is not a very profound statement. But hey maybe you really believe that.

[FalconFanSince1970]

We didn't let Kerney go he opted out of the last 2 years of his contract - the Falcons had nothing to do with that.

We could have offered Kerney a better deal and didn't. Why? Because he was old and like I said totally blew in three of his last four years here. A classic example of a team making a good salary cap related decision.

Kerney still had some juice left. Brooking is on E. Like I said before if we had more experience at the LB position Brooking would have been long gone. Crump, Hall, Coleman and Dunn all out performed him and got let go.

[SCfalconfan]

I am not acting but you are definitely assuming. In fact I mentioned him taking more of a signing bonus early. You need to pick a side of the fence you can't have both. Either we are talking about what goes into his bank account or what affects the cap space. The cap space was reduced in 2004 and 2006 only to be pushed back to the later years. Well, it's the later years. Players are often underpaid early on and if they last long enough are usually a tremendous cap burden.

You can't apply the contract of an NFL player to buying a cheeseburger logic.

Its beneficial to both sides. The player gets money earlier (and guaranteed), the team gets current cap savings. Some (not necessarily you)are claiming that Booking did this for the "good of the team" at the time he did it. Obviously there was a nice beneift in it for him as well.

[chifalc]

How is paying an underachieving player $8M not affecting us in a league that has a salary cap?

If he was let go with Dunn, Crump, Coleman and Hall we would have had even more cap dollars to go after players like Turner.

You should recant the statement 'salary is irrelevent'. That is not a very profound statement. But hey maybe you really believe that.

We weren't interested in going after more players. RIght from the beginning, we wanted only one free agent with splash and then 'solid parts',

THey even said as much. We didn't even pursue ones other than TUrner. We were not GOING to pursue a bunch of high priced free agents.

His salary was completely irrelevant to the structure of this team.

[SCfalconfan]

He couldn't restructure anyhow with only 1 year remaining after this season on his contract. He could however sign a contract extension and pro-rate out his cap hit from there.

And I agree he has lost a step - but it would be more beneficial to groom someone into his slot than just to thrust someone into the situation and hope it works out for you. (ala Doug Johnson 2003)

You don't have to "groom" someone. You can go out and sign veteran players like we did with Turner and Coleman to bring in. You would have enough tape on such a player to make a move like that and not have to keep Brooking around.

If you draft someone to replace Brooking, there is some logic to keeping him around as a mentor, but again you could sign a cheaper veteran to do something similar (or let Boley/Lofton do the "mentoring").

[chifalc]

We could have offered Kerney a better deal and didn't. Why? Because he was old and like I said totally blew in three of his last four years here. A classic example of a team making a good salary cap related decision.

Kerney still had some juice left. Brooking is on E. Like I said before if we had more experience at the LB position Brooking would have been long gone. Crump, Hall, Coleman and Dunn all out performed him and got let go.

_Coleman_? COleman was barely on the field, much less performing.

Hall was getting crisped and wasn't 'let go' he was SHOWN THE DOOR after demanding a long term contract that WOULD have been crippling, and once he howed he wasn't into the team concept we wanted. Dunn was let go because we signed his replacement and at his own request. Crumpler was let go because he was consistantly injured. That list of yours is rather bad as proof.

ANd there was noone we were interested in going after that we did not get as a result of BRooking's cap number.

[chifalc]

You don't have to "groom" someone. You can go out and sign veteran players like we did with Turner and Coleman to bring in. You would have enough tape on such a player to make a move like that and not have to keep Brooking around.

If you draft someone to replace Brooking, there is some logic to keeping him around as a mentor, but again you could sign a cheaper veteran to do something similar (or let Boley/Lofton do the "mentoring").

SO you wanted to sign another free agent who would be a stopgap and ALSO be by your 'logic' overpriced, and then trust the mentoring to a second and third year player?

[FalconFanSince1970]

A few Falcons who were either released, traded or not resigned due to age, salary and/or production decline:

Warrick Dunn

Alge Crumpler

Rod Coleman

Patrick Kerney

Chris Chandler

Jamal Anderson

Scott Case

Andre Rison

Jesse Tuggle

Chris Miller

Chris Doleman

Chuck Smith

Bobby Butler

Steve Bartkowski

Bill Fralic

Mike Kenn

Jeff Van Note

Claude Humphrey

Face it people. It happens. Brooking is not immune to this phenomenon. If the Pack can let Favre go we sure can let Brooking go right? How bout rethinking this one.

[chifalc]

A few Falcons who were either released, traded or not resigned due to age, salary and production decline:

Warrick Dunn

Alge Crumpler

Rod Coleman

Chris Chandler

Jamal Anderson

Scott Case

Jesse Tuggle

Chris Miller

Chris Doleman

Chuck Smith

Steve Bartkowski

Bill Fralic

Mike Kenn

Jeff Van Note

Claude Humphrey

Face it people. It happens. Brooking is not immune to this phenomenon. If the Pack can let Favre go we sure can let Brooking go right? How bout rethinking this one.

DAncing through the raindrops, you STILL are failing to answer what player that we were seriously interested in pursuing that Brooking kept us from Acquiring.