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Franchise QB development timeframe


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I admit that I don't EVERYTHING about football and I'm more than willing to be schooled.

Therefore, I would like to know if there were ANY NFL QB that was selected in the first or second round that took longer than 2 seasons to prove that he was a franchise calibre QB. Please provide a free-agncy era QB (post 1986).

Please enlighten me.

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Brett Favre didn't do much good until his 3rd year in Green Bay, Steve Young was terrible until he went to the 49ers his 3rd year, Tom Brady didn't really break out until his 3rd year, and Carson Palmer didn't really break out until his 3rd year even though he sat an entire year.

Need more examples?

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Brett Farve didn't start till his second year and I don't think he was proven to be a franchise QB at that time.

Not sure when Steve Young was drafted but he took a while before he won anything.

During his rookie year, Steve Young threw for over 2300 yards and 10 TDs in a 12 games USFL season after missing his first 6 games to complete his college degree. He led his team to the playoffs during his rookie year. Young was drafted into the USFL to the LA Express.

Favre threw for over 3700 yards and 18 TDs during his second season (first as starter, first with Green Bay) and this was wih only 13 games as starter.

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Steve Young wasn't even in the NFL at the start of his career...I think he was picked up from the USFL (or some such), then sat on the bench in SF for a long time.

Actually OF, Young played 2 years for the Los Angeles team in the USFL....starting around '84 I believe....Then he played a couple of years for the Buccaneers.....In their infinite wisdom they considered him a bust and shipped him out to the 49ers when they drafted Testaverde.....I believe '87 or '88....around there.....Young didn't become the official starter for the 49ers until 1991......

So, counting the time he spent in the USFL and the time he spent in Tampa and as a backup to Montana it was 7 years 84-91 until Young blossomed and became the starter with the 49ers.......

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Brett Favre didn't do much good until his 3rd year in Green Bay, Steve Young was terrible until he went to the 49ers his 3rd year, Tom Brady didn't really break out until his 3rd year, and Carson Palmer didn't really break out until his 3rd year even though he sat an entire year.

Need more examples?

Favre threw for over 3700 yards and 18 TDs during his second season (first as starter, first with Green Bay) and this was wih only 13 games as starter.

During his rookie year, Steve Young threw for over 2300 yards and 10 TDs in his rookie USFL season after missing his first 6 games to complete his college degree. He led his team to the playoffs during his rookie year. Young was drafted into the USFL to the LA Express.

Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick, but you asked for it ANYWAYS. Brady threw for over 2800 yards and 18 TDs in 13 games during his second season.

Carson Palmer also threw for over 2800 yards and 18 TDs in 13 games during his second season.

Yes, "Falcon Ace" I need more examples.

A great statistical year for any NFL QB is over 3000 yards and 20 TDs over 16 games or a winning record and playoff appearance. All your examples would have exceeded that benchmark over a 16 game season.

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So, counting the time he spent in the USFL and the time he spent in Tampa and as a backup to Montana it was 7 years 84-91 until Young blossomed and became the starter with the 49ers.......

Young was the highest paid player to date in football when signed in the USFL...he was a player outside of his time in TB...but they were horrible.

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Favre threw for over 3700 yards and 18 TDs during his second season (first as starter, first with Green Bay) and this was wih only 13 games as starter.

During his rookie year, Steve Young threw for over 2300 yards and 10 TDs in his rookie USFL season after missing his first 6 games to complete his college degree. He led his team to the playoffs during his rookie year. Young was drafted into the USFL to the LA Express.

Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick, but you asked for it ANYWAYS. Brady threw for over 2800 yards and 18 TDs in 13 games during his second season.

Carson Palmer also threw for over 2800 yards and 18 TDs in 13 games during his second season.

Yes, "Falcon Ace" I need more examples.

A great statistical year for any NFL QB is over 3000 yards and 20 TDs over 16 games or a winning record and playoff appearance. All your examples would have exceeded that benchmark over a 16 game season.

Ummm, you do realize that the talent level of the USFL was vastly inferior to the NFL don't you? Young failed miserably the first 2 years of NFL competition with the Bucs...

but don't let facts ruin your hypothesis..............

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Actually OF, Young played 2 years for the Los Angeles team in the USFL....starting around '84 I believe....Then he played a couple of years for the Buccaneers.....In their infinite wisdom they considered him a bust and shipped him out to the 49ers when they drafted Testaverde.....I believe '87 or '88....around there.....Young didn't become the official starter for the 49ers until 1991......

So, counting the time he spent in the USFL and the time he spent in Tampa and as a backup to Montana it was 7 years 84-91 until Young blossomed and became the starter with the 49ers.......

Young was the second best QB in the USFL every season and led his team to the playoffs every year. ANYONE will tell you the Young was second to only Jim Kelly in the USFL.

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Ummm, you do realize that the talent level of the USFL was vastly inferior to the NFL don't you? Young failed miserably the first 2 years of NFL competition with the Bucs...

but don't let facts ruin your hypothesis..............

Ummm, you do realize that everyone associated with the Bucaneers as that time failed miserably and that the 2 best USFL QBs just happen to end up being NFL Hall of Famers...

but don't let facts ruin your hypothesis..............

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Ummm, you do realize that everyone associated with the Bucaneers as that time failed miserably and that the 2 best USFL QBs just happen to end up being NFL Hall of Famers...

but don't let facts ruin your hypothesis..............

So when Young was with The Bucs doesn't count.

Those facts you ignore.

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It depend what you define as a "franchise calibre QB", and what someone has to do to prove they are one.

In my view a franchise Qb is a higher benchmark than being a competent or decent starter. As i see it, there are no more than 8-11 true "franchsie QB's" in ther NFL (Manning, Brady, Favre, Palmer, Brees, McNabb, Romo, Roethlisberger and possibly Hasselbeck, E. Manning and Anderson). If I has to set statistical bench marks these days for a franchise Qb, I'd say that they are 187.5 ypg passing (3000 in 16 games) , 59% completions and passer rating of 85. If you are below those numbers, you're probably not franchsie calibre Qb in my view and recent history (the last 20 years) suggests that you are not likely to win a super bowl (Eli Manning and Trent Dilfer being the 2 notable exceptions). The criteria aren't black and white (e.g. it would be ridiculous to say that someone who completed 70% of his passes with a rating of 110 isn't a franchise Qb because the comes up 1 yard short of 3000 yards) and some players may come upshort in the stats but have intangibles that elevate them to franchise status in any event.

As for some of the QBs mentioned in this thread:-

Steve Young - You can't label someone a "franchsie Qb" on the basis of their play in a league other than the NFL. Young entered the NFL in 1986, and put up some very good numbers in 1987 and 1989, but only say very limited action. He couldn't be considered a true franchsie Qb until 1991 or 1992

Eli Manning - with his sub-80 passer rating, I'm not entirely sure that Eli is a "franchisie Qb" yet. If he has earned that tag, it was with his performnces under pressure in the playoffs last year, his 4th season.

Drew Brees - He showed some promise in year 2, but didn't become a frnacise Qb unitl his 4th year in San Diego at the earliest, if not his 6th yeasr in the NFL in 2006. If the Chargers had been satisfed that he had proven himself as a "Franchise QB" they'd have had no reason to select Rivers with the 4th pick of the draft in 2004.

Carson Palmer - Showed a lot of promise in the 2nd season, but didn't become a franchsie QB until year 3.

Bottom Line: Matt Ryan could well show promisein his 1st or 2nd year, but it is likely to be at least 3 years before he becomes a franchise calibre QB, and he needs to be give at least 3 years to prove himself.

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Favre threw for over 3700 yards and 18 TDs during his second season (first as starter, first with Green Bay) and this was wih only 13 games as starter.

During his rookie year, Steve Young threw for over 2300 yards and 10 TDs in his rookie USFL season after missing his first 6 games to complete his college degree. He led his team to the playoffs during his rookie year. Young was drafted into the USFL to the LA Express.

Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick, but you asked for it ANYWAYS. Brady threw for over 2800 yards and 18 TDs in 13 games during his second season.

Carson Palmer also threw for over 2800 yards and 18 TDs in 13 games during his second season.

Yes, "Falcon Ace" I need more examples.

A great statistical year for any NFL QB is over 3000 yards and 20 TDs over 16 games or a winning record and playoff appearance. All your examples would have exceeded that benchmark over a 16 game season.

Brett Favre didn't really break out. Yeah, he threw for 3000 yards and 18 TDs, but he also threw 13 INTs. His next year was worse, in which he threw more INTs than TDs. From 94 and onward was when he started playing at a real high level, which was his 3rd year in GB and his 4th year in the league.

Who cares what Young did in the USFL. The NFL has always had FAR superior talent than the NFL, and he was terrible in his years with Tampa Bay. He went to the 49ers, in his 3rd year in the NFL, and then he started performing well.

Carson Palmer threw for 2900 yards and 18 TDs his 2nd season, but also threw 18 INTs. He didn't really start to perform until his 3rd year, in which he threw for 3800 yards with 32TDs and 12 INTs.

Tom Brady threw for 2800 yards over 15 games and had 18 TDs, with 12 INTs... in his second year. Sure, his team got to the play-offs, but I am looking at the individual performance. He didn't break out big until his 3rd year... where he went for 28 TDs and had 14 INTs while passing for 3700 yards.

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Oh.I get it.You are saying Matty Ryan will be the bomb next year despite growing pains this year.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. BUT I DO KNOW THIS ....... NFL DEFENSES

LOVE TO KILL THE GOLDEN BOY QUARTERBACKS WITH ALL THE MONEY. THE KID

HAS GOT TO WATCH HIMSELF. EAT THE BALL WHEN HE HAS TO. ALWAYS LIVE FOR

THE NEXT DOWN. AND ALWAYS REMEMBER, THE QB's THE ONE THEY WANT TO

KNOCK OUT OF THE GAME THE MOST. THEY'LL KNOCK YOU DOWN AND HELP YOU

UP. AND THE VERY NEXT PLAY THEY'LL TEAR YOUR HEAD OFF. PUTTING ALL OF

THIS ASIDE ........ IT'S A PRETTY SAFE JOB. <_<

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Ummm, you do realize that everyone associated with the Bucaneers as that time failed miserably and that the 2 best USFL QBs just happen to end up being NFL Hall of Famers...

but don't let facts ruin your hypothesis..............

Name some great defensive players from the USFL besides Reggie White who ever did anything in the NFL......

That's who Kelly and Young were going up against.

Your argument for including any performance by any quarterback in the USFL holds no water with anyone who knows anything about pro football.

If we followed your seriously flawed logic then Steve Young should have torn it up when he played for the Bucs, right? I mean, he was already a franchise quarterback according to your measuring stick.......Don't tell me about inferior Buc talent. There was inferior talent surrounding Young with the Express and he lit it up....

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