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What a fellow former POW thinks of John McCain


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http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

About Phillip Butler

Doctor Phillip Butler is a 1961 graduate of the United States Naval Academy and a former light-attack carrier pilot. In 1965 he was shot down over North Vietnam where he spent eight years as a prisoner of war. He is a highly decorated combat veteran who was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legion of Merits, two Bronze Stars and two Purple Heart medals.

After his repatriation in 1973 he earned a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of California at San Diego and became a Navy Organizational Effectiveness consultant. He completed his Navy career in 1981 as a professor of management at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. He is now a peace and justice activist with Veterans for Peace.

Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain

Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.

When I was a Plebe (4th classman, or freshman) at the Naval Academy in 1957-58, I was assigned to the 17th Company for my four years there. In those days we had about 3,600 midshipmen spread among 24 companies, thus about 150 midshipmen to a company. As fortune would have it, John, a First Classman (senior) and his room mate lived directly across the hall from me and my two room mates. Believe me when I say that back then I would never in a million or more years have dreamed that the crazy guy across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President!

John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every USNA regulation in our 4 inch thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy. John had me "coming around" to his room frequently during my plebe year. And on one occasion he took me with him to escape "over the wall" in the dead of night. He had a taxi cab waiting for us that took us to a bar some 7 miles away. John had a few beers, but forbid me to drink (watching out for me I guess) and made me drink cokes. I could tell many other midshipman stories about John that year and he unbelievably managed to graduate though he spent the majority of his first class year on restriction for the stuff he did get caught doing. In fact he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer is always "No - John McCain was a POW with me." The reason is I was there for 8 years and John got there 2 ½ years later, so he was a POW for 5 ½ years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as a POW.

John's treatment as a POW:

1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years. President Ho Chi Minh died on September 9, 1969, and the new regime that replaced him and his policies was more pragmatic. They realized we were worth a lot as bargaining chips if we were alive. And they were right because eventually Americans gave up on the war and agreed to trade our POW's for their country. A **** good trade in my opinion! But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.

2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often the case - new POW's arriving with broken bones and serious combat injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to rudimentary. Relief from pain was almost never given and often the wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals of Honor - 8, Service Crosses - 42, Silver Stars - 590, Bronze Stars - 958 and Purple Hearts - 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More that 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once. The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.

It is also disappointing to see him take on and support Bush's war in Iraq, even stating we might be there for another 100 years. For me John represents the entrenched and bankrupt policies of Washington-as-usual. The past 7 years have proven to be disastrous for our country. And I believe John's views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment, health care, education, national infrastructure and other important areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.

I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he hates that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don't see that John is the "straight talk express" he markets himself to be.

Senator John Sidney McCain, III is a remarkable man who has made enormous personal achievements. And he is a man that I am proud to call a fellow POW who "Returned With Honor." That's our POW motto. But since many of you keep asking what I think of him, I've decided to write it out. In short, I think John Sidney McCain, III is a good man, but not someone I will vote for in the upcoming election to be our President of the United States.

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Hard to understand why this guy would come out with a piece like this. Kind of contemptible in a Swift Boat kind of way, actually.
It was exactly a swiftboat piece. If he disagrees with the man's public policies, thats fine. But what is the point of downplaying and minimalizing his POW stint?
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It was exactly a swiftboat piece. If he disagrees with the man's public policies, thats fine. But what is the point of downplaying and minimalizing his POW stint?

It didn't sound like he was downplaying or minimalizing McCain's POW stint at all. He said he was courageous, loyal and tenacious. Then he goes on to say that doesn't mean you're qualified to be POTUS and he gives other reasons. It wasn't disrespectful of McCain or his own stint as a POW.

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It was exactly a swiftboat piece. If he disagrees with the man's public policies, thats fine. But what is the point of downplaying and minimalizing his POW stint?

At what point is he downgrading McCain? He's saying McCain's POW status should not be an issue.

Second

swiftboating

The process of smearing a military veteran's service record for political purposes. Named after the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, who discredited John Kerry's war record during the 2004 U.S. presidential election.

At what point does he smear McCain. Did he say McCain wasn't a POW? Did he say McCain cooperated with the Vietnamese? Did he say McCain exaggerated his service? No. He just points out McCain was not the only POW

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At what point is he downgrading McCain? He's saying McCain's POW status should not be an issue.

Second

swiftboating

The process of smearing a military veteran's service record for political purposes. Named after the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, who discredited John Kerry's war record during the 2004 U.S. presidential election.

At what point does he smear McCain. Did he say McCain wasn't a POW? Did he say McCain cooperated with the Vietnamese? Did he say McCain exaggerated his service? No. He just points out McCain was not the only POW

I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

Was he tortured for 5 years? No.

it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John.

it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

Funny, he seems to say it right there that McCain exaggerated his POW experiences.

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I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

Was he tortured for 5 years? No.

it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John.

it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

Funny, he seems to say it right there that McCain exaggerated his POW experiences.

He called the man a hero.

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I'm not sure how you can justify someone saying McCain's POW status shouldn't be part of his "credentials"

I mean if you don't agree with the guy policy's that is one thing.. But to say

"I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate."

It's not like McCain is running on just his POW status. He also has 30 plus years in the gov't amongst whatever other platforms he has going for him. I mean it's not like he's a first term senator ;) ... I haven't made up my mind who I am voting for and this article surely doesn't sway me in the least one way or the other.

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I'm not sure how you can justify someone saying McCain's POW status shouldn't be part of his "credentials"

I mean if you don't agree with the guy policy's that is one thing.. But to say

"I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate."

It's not like McCain is running on just his POW status. He also has 30 plus years in the gov't amongst whatever other platforms he has going for him. I mean it's not like he's a first term senator ;) ... I haven't made up my mind who I am voting for and this article surely doesn't sway me in the least one way or the other.

Well, I've been through things that have caused me physical pain and mental anguish, and I arose from those things stronger. They weren't anywhere near the level of McCain's situation, but I can't fathom those experiences not having some profound effect on the way he lives his life.
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And then said that McCain's campaign has embellished his POW stint. He also said the only reason McCain graduated from the Naval Academy was because of his daddy.

I guess you only recognize veiled insults if they're thrown at your guy.

No I recognize that the guy doesn't care for McCain's policies, nor does he care for his campaign embellishing his POW stint. Your first post was that the guy was downplaying his POW stint. Now you're jumping to something else.

The author wasn't downplaying it, he was painting a realistic picture based on HIS OWN stint in the same camp at the same time with John McCain. He said the man was loyal and courageous and a hero, but that doesn't mean he should be President. He's not insulting the man for being a POW....duh..HE was a POW too. He's just being real about what that means. Being a POW is not some glory position that he can use to justify being President. Then the guy goes on to cite the OTHER reasons he doesn't think McCain should be president.

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No I recognize that the guy doesn't care for McCain's policies, nor does he care for his campaign embellishing his POW stint. Your first post was that the guy was downplaying his POW stint. Now you're jumping to something else.

The author wasn't downplaying it, he was painting a realistic picture based on HIS OWN stint in the same camp at the same time with John McCain. He said the man was loyal and courageous and a hero, but that doesn't mean he should be President. He's not insulting the man for being a POW....duh..HE was a POW too. He's just being real about what that means. Being a POW is not some glory position that he can use to justify being President. Then the guy goes on to cite the OTHER reasons he doesn't think McCain should be president.

Who is this guy though? Maybe he didn't take apply anything from his experience of being a POW... Maybe he went to work at a gas station or cashed his disability check and drank margarita's on the beach.. Who knows what he did.. What you do know is what McCain did after being a POW and to say that the experience didn't play a role in the next 30 years of his life is ignorant.

ok edit: I just went back and read that he's a Doctor blah blah but same principle applies... To down play someone else's experiences and say they shouldn't be a contributing quality for being President is still ignorant.

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No I recognize that the guy doesn't care for McCain's policies, nor does he care for his campaign embellishing his POW stint. Your first post was that the guy was downplaying his POW stint. Now you're jumping to something else.

The author wasn't downplaying it, he was painting a realistic picture based on HIS OWN stint in the same camp at the same time with John McCain. He said the man was loyal and courageous and a hero, but that doesn't mean he should be President. He's not insulting the man for being a POW....duh..HE was a POW too. He's just being real about what that means. Being a POW is not some glory position that he can use to justify being President. Then the guy goes on to cite the OTHER reasons he doesn't think McCain should be president.

More ignorance. I don't know about you, but given that the guy was tortured and never hung his comrades out to dry is plenty enough proof of his commitment. What's Barack got under that category?
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* On a related note I found out today my Economics Professor at GSU used to fly sorties with John McCain in Vietnam. They wearn't best freinds or anything but they knew each other. Doesn't really have to do with the topic but hey I thought it was kinda neat.

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More ignorance. I don't know about you, but given that the guy was tortured and never hung his comrades out to dry is plenty enough proof of his commitment. What's Barack got under that category?

Why are u bringing up Barack? He didn't write the column a former POW did. Are you saying THIS POW doesn't know what he's talking about, has no business talking about HIS OWN experience and making a judgement based on HIS EXPERIENCE AS A POW to speak about McCain?? No, you jump to "What's Barack got under that category"...don't get mad that a POW is criticizing a POW for using that experience as a selling point. The POW is well within his rights to make that judgement - he can go there, and he did. Looks like the ignorant one is you.

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Who is this guy though? Maybe he didn't take apply anything from his experience of being a POW... Maybe he went to work at a gas station or cashed his disability check and drank margarita's on the beach.. Who knows what he did.. What you do know is what McCain did after being a POW and to say that the experience didn't play a role in the next 30 years of his life is ignorant.

ok edit: I just went back and read that he's a Doctor blah blah but same principle applies... To down play someone else's experiences and say they shouldn't be a contributing quality for being President is still ignorant.

Because you say so? Well it ain't so. Someone who experienced it is well within their rights to talk about it and make a judgement on whether a fellow POW may be using that experience as some sort of selling point for votes. He didn't bash the man for being what he himself was, he bashed his campaign for trying to capitalize off it for the purposes of his campaign.

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It just strikes me as catty. You could say that McCain is trying to "cash in" on his POW experience on some level and that may even be true but what Presidential candidate does not feel compelled to expose his patriotic accomplishments? It's part of the game of politics. This guy comes off as a person with a little bit of a chip on his shoulder as well as going a little beyond the pale to win votes for his side. Hey, I kind of like Barrack in this election but I've always felt that someone with no credibility or bad logic arguing for my POV is worse than not having them on my side at all. I'd rather have the weak arguments coming from the other camp...like Barrack is Muslim or doesn't wear a flag lapel pin.

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Why are u bringing up Barack? He didn't write the column a former POW did. Are you saying THIS POW doesn't know what he's talking about, has no business talking about HIS OWN experience and making a judgement based on HIS EXPERIENCE AS A POW to speak about McCain?? No, you jump to "What's Barack got under that category"...don't get mad that a POW is criticizing a POW for using that experience as a selling point. The POW is well within his rights to make that judgement - he can go there, and he did. Looks like the ignorant one is you.
And that's why it's "swiftboating." The guy is downplaying his experience as a POW, just as the SBVFT did to Kerry.

I bring up Barack because this man says McCain gains no qualifications under being a POW, when it's pretty clear he showed resolve and commitment to his country and fellow POW's during that period. Given that you agree with this man's sentiment, I'm asking you where Barack has demonstrated these qualities.

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It just strikes me as catty. You could say that McCain is trying to "cash in" on his POW experience on some level and that may even be true but what Presidential candidate does not feel compelled to expose his patriotic accomplishments? It's part of the game of politics. This guy comes off as a person with a little bit of a chip on his shoulder as well as going a little beyond the pale to win votes for his side. Hey, I kind of like Barrack in this election but I've always felt that someone with no credibility or bad logic arguing for my POV is worse than not having them on my side at all. I'd rather have the weak arguments coming from the other camp...like Barrack is Muslim or doesn't wear a flag lapel pin.

Totally agree. I'm not voting for McCain or Obama, but I tend to get annoyed when I hear stupid logic hurled from both sides. McCain is too old and too dumb, while Barack is a Muslim loving socialist. Both are ludicrous.

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And that's why it's "swiftboating." The guy is downplaying his experience as a POW, just as the SBVFT did to Kerry.

I bring up Barack because this man says McCain gains no qualifications under being a POW, when it's pretty clear he showed resolve and commitment to his country and fellow POW's during that period. Given that you agree with this man's sentiment, I'm asking you where Barack has demonstrated these qualities.

You bring up Barack Obama because YOU were thinking of Barack Obama. The author never mentioned his name one time.

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