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I know this is way too earlier to consider but something to think about!


Vince
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I know it is way too earlier to consider this but let s just say we have a top 3-5 pick next year with Johnson, Crabtree, Stafford, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Moreno and Oher all looking to be the most regarded players to come out. And let s just say that the Eagles who have two picks in the 1st round (let s say 14 & 21).  How many of you guys would love to see us trade down with them to pick up let s say (SS, OT/OG or DT). That will give us let s say the 14, 21 and 36 picks in next years draft. Mays or Rolle, Robinson or Boone, and Woods, Marks or Oghobaase all with the first three picks. How great would that be!!

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i think its a real possibility because my ppls has told me that philly has already started there scouting process on Michael Crabtree.... They want and need that type of WR for Mcnabb bad....... I dont think we can get their two first round picks but he said a 1st(panthers) and 2nd round pick is very possible

i cant lie just thinking about

1st round - 6'3 225lbs SS/FS Taylor Mays

2nd round - 6'5 296lbs DT Fili Moala

2nd round - 6'6 310lbs DT Vince Oghobaase

3rd round - 6'8 350lbs RT/G Phil Loadholt

i would go crazy if this went down

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Vince (7/20/2008)

I know it is way too earlier to consider this but let s just say we have a top 3-5 pick next year with Johnson, Crabtree, Stafford, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Moreno and Oher all looking to be the most regarded players to come out. And let s just say that the Eagles who have two picks in the 1st round (let s say 14 & 21). How many of you guys would love to see us trade down with them to pick up let s say (SS, OT/OG or DT). That will give us let s say the 14, 21 and 36 picks in next years draft. Mays or Rolle, Robinson or Boone, and Woods, Marks or Oghobaase all with the first three picks. How great would that be!!

Would be great.

Problem is, the Eagirls front office is smart with their draft picks and getting them to make a deal like that just doesn't seem likely. They are smarter than that. Not to mention the eagirls are VERY stingy with their money when it comes to contracts, so getting a high 1st round pick, and the signing bonuses that will come with it is not what they want to do. It will be cheaper to sign #14 & #21 combined than it will be to sign #5 most likely.

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Robb4242 (7/20/2008)
Vince (7/20/2008)

I know it is way too earlier to consider this but let s just say we have a top 3-5 pick next year with Johnson, Crabtree, Stafford, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Moreno and Oher all looking to be the most regarded players to come out. And let s just say that the Eagles who have two picks in the 1st round (let s say 14 & 21). How many of you guys would love to see us trade down with them to pick up let s say (SS, OT/OG or DT). That will give us let s say the 14, 21 and 36 picks in next years draft. Mays or Rolle, Robinson or Boone, and Woods, Marks or Oghobaase all with the first three picks. How great would that be!!

Would be great.

Problem is, the Eagirls front office is smart with their draft picks and getting them to make a deal like that just doesn't seem likely. They are smarter than that. Not to mention the eagirls are VERY stingy with their money when it comes to contracts, so getting a high 1st round pick, and the signing bonuses that will come with it is not what they want to do. It will be cheaper to sign #14 & #21 combined than it will be to sign #5 most likely.

i agree but theink about it...... the eagles has been trying to get a number 1 WR for years...... They was willing to give Moss more then 10 million a year....... They tried to trade Lito and a first round pick for Larry Fitzgerald an then they was going to have to pay him 10 million a year........ 6'3 210lbs Michael Crabtree is not only younger but he would cost less money...... Since philly has 2 1st round picks and a already put together roster..... they would trade a 1st and 2nd round pick

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atljbo (7/20/2008)
Robb4242 (7/20/2008)
Vince (7/20/2008)

I know it is way too earlier to consider this but let s just say we have a top 3-5 pick next year with Johnson, Crabtree, Stafford, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Moreno and Oher all looking to be the most regarded players to come out. And let s just say that the Eagles who have two picks in the 1st round (let s say 14 & 21). How many of you guys would love to see us trade down with them to pick up let s say (SS, OT/OG or DT). That will give us let s say the 14, 21 and 36 picks in next years draft. Mays or Rolle, Robinson or Boone, and Woods, Marks or Oghobaase all with the first three picks. How great would that be!!

Would be great.

Problem is, the Eagirls front office is smart with their draft picks and getting them to make a deal like that just doesn't seem likely. They are smarter than that. Not to mention the eagirls are VERY stingy with their money when it comes to contracts, so getting a high 1st round pick, and the signing bonuses that will come with it is not what they want to do. It will be cheaper to sign #14 & #21 combined than it will be to sign #5 most likely.

i agree but theink about it...... the eagles has been trying to get a number 1 WR for years...... They was willing to give Moss more then 10 million a year....... They tried to trade Lito and a first round pick for Larry Fitzgerald an then they was going to have to pay him 10 million a year........ 6'3 210lbs Michael Crabtree is not only younger but he would cost less money...... Since philly has 2 1st round picks and a already put together roster..... they would trade a 1st and 2nd round pick

 

My thoughts exactly, I know it is a pipe dream but nothing wrong with starting discussion with asking both 1st round picks and if that doesn't workout. I'll be happy with a 1st, 2nd and maybe a conditional 2010 pick. Sorry but I am greedy! We already see what TD can do with draft picks. I must admit when I first saw who we picked up I was a little disappointed but after a little research on our rookies. I have conformed! Argueably the best QB, MLB and steal picks with FS, RB and tackle manchines at DE/OLB and OLB. Plus I think we are all going to look back at the Baker pick and realize that he might be one of the most under picks in recent years. Even if he is not a Pro Bowler, let's just say a quality LT at 21 is not that bad!

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atljbo (7/20/2008)
Robb4242 (7/20/2008)
Vince (7/20/2008)

I know it is way too earlier to consider this but let s just say we have a top 3-5 pick next year with Johnson, Crabtree, Stafford, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Moreno and Oher all looking to be the most regarded players to come out. And let s just say that the Eagles who have two picks in the 1st round (let s say 14 & 21). How many of you guys would love to see us trade down with them to pick up let s say (SS, OT/OG or DT). That will give us let s say the 14, 21 and 36 picks in next years draft. Mays or Rolle, Robinson or Boone, and Woods, Marks or Oghobaase all with the first three picks. How great would that be!!

Would be great.

Problem is, the Eagirls front office is smart with their draft picks and getting them to make a deal like that just doesn't seem likely. They are smarter than that. Not to mention the eagirls are VERY stingy with their money when it comes to contracts, so getting a high 1st round pick, and the signing bonuses that will come with it is not what they want to do. It will be cheaper to sign #14 & #21 combined than it will be to sign #5 most likely.

i agree but theink about it...... the eagles has been trying to get a number 1 WR for years...... They was willing to give Moss more then 10 million a year....... They tried to trade Lito and a first round pick for Larry Fitzgerald an then they was going to have to pay him 10 million a year........ 6'3 210lbs Michael Crabtree is not only younger but he would cost less money...... Since philly has 2 1st round picks and a already put together roster..... they would trade a 1st and 2nd round pick

Disagree.....

With Moss and Fitzgerald, the fillies knew what they were buying. They knew the attitude and work ethic that came with those players. They knew what those guys would do on an NFL field.

Crabtree, like it or not, is still somewhat of a gamble. If he goes #1 overall, he'll likely get 40 million guaranteed and a 6 year deal. That's not going to be cheaper in the long run than either Moss or Fitzgerald ESPECIALLY if by some slight chance he doesn't pan out. I really think Crabtree is by far the best receiver to come out in several years, but like everybody in the draft, you don't know for 100% sure what you're getting until he's there.

The eagirls have also will have some holes to fill. Both of their starting OT's are going to be FA's this year as well as Brian Dawkins. JMO but Darrius Heyward-Bey/William Moore/Ciron Black combo (2 of the 3) > Micheal Crabtree and fills more holes for them.

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there should be good tackles all the way till the early third round...... So many teams has drafted their future LT in this year draft and reup on the young talented tacles they already have, so O-Tackle will not not be a big need for most teams....

Andre Smith 6'5 340 Alabama

Eugene Monroe 6'5 315 Virginia

Michael Oher 6'5 318 Mississippi

Alex Boone 6'7 312 Ohio State

Ciron Black 6'5 320 LSU

Jamon Meredith 6'5 301 South Carolina

Xavier Fulton 6'5 295 Illinois

Phil Loadholt 6'8 348 Oklahoma

Ryland Reed 6'7 315 Texas Tech

Andrew Gardner 6'6 298 Georgia Tech

Sam Young 6'8 330 Notre Dame

YOOOOOO... next year OT draft class should be very deep

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Robb4242 (7/20/2008)
atljbo (7/20/2008)
Robb4242 (7/20/2008)
Vince (7/20/2008)

I know it is way too earlier to consider this but let s just say we have a top 3-5 pick next year with Johnson, Crabtree, Stafford, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Moreno and Oher all looking to be the most regarded players to come out. And let s just say that the Eagles who have two picks in the 1st round (let s say 14 & 21). How many of you guys would love to see us trade down with them to pick up let s say (SS, OT/OG or DT). That will give us let s say the 14, 21 and 36 picks in next years draft. Mays or Rolle, Robinson or Boone, and Woods, Marks or Oghobaase all with the first three picks. How great would that be!!

Would be great.

Problem is, the Eagirls front office is smart with their draft picks and getting them to make a deal like that just doesn't seem likely. They are smarter than that. Not to mention the eagirls are VERY stingy with their money when it comes to contracts, so getting a high 1st round pick, and the signing bonuses that will come with it is not what they want to do. It will be cheaper to sign #14 & #21 combined than it will be to sign #5 most likely.

i agree but theink about it...... the eagles has been trying to get a number 1 WR for years...... They was willing to give Moss more then 10 million a year....... They tried to trade Lito and a first round pick for Larry Fitzgerald an then they was going to have to pay him 10 million a year........ 6'3 210lbs Michael Crabtree is not only younger but he would cost less money...... Since philly has 2 1st round picks and a already put together roster..... they would trade a 1st and 2nd round pick

Disagree.....

With Moss and Fitzgerald, the fillies knew what they were buying. They knew the attitude and work ethic that came with those players. They knew what those guys would do on an NFL field.

Crabtree, like it or not, is still somewhat of a gamble. If he goes #1 overall, he'll likely get 40 million guaranteed and a 6 year deal. That's not going to be cheaper in the long run than either Moss or Fitzgerald ESPECIALLY if by some slight chance he doesn't pan out. I really think Crabtree is by far the best receiver to come out in several years, but like everybody in the draft, you don't know for 100% sure what you're getting until he's there.

The eagirls have also will have some holes to fill. Both of their starting OT's are going to be FA's this year as well as Brian Dawkins. JMO but Darrius Heyward-Bey/William Moore/Ciron Black combo (2 of the 3) > Micheal Crabtree and fills more holes for them.

i think that the eagles will re-sign all of those players plus the eagles drafted FS Quintin Demps to be the future FS........ If the did this trade they could still get Micheal Crabtree and Ciron Black

Philly has been drafting second tier WR for years.... thats their problem

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"Disagree.....

With Moss and Fitzgerald, the fillies knew what they were buying. They knew the attitude and work ethic that came with those players. They knew what those guys would do on an NFL field.

Crabtree, like it or not, is still somewhat of a gamble. If he goes #1 overall, he'll likely get 40 million guaranteed and a 6 year deal. That's not going to be cheaper in the long run than either Moss or Fitzgerald ESPECIALLY if by some slight chance he doesn't pan out. I really think Crabtree is by far the best receiver to come out in several years, but like everybody in the draft, you don't know for 100% sure what you're getting until he's there.

The eagirls have also will have some holes to fill. Both of their starting OT's are going to be FA's this year as well as Brian Dawkins. JMO but Darrius Heyward-Bey/William Moore/Ciron Black combo (2 of the 3) > Micheal Crabtree and fills more holes for them."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

Dude where are you getting your info from? 4 years $40 million, Ryan deal which is the highest for a rookie $34.5 guarantee which drew enough attention that the commissioner is considering a rookie contract structure. What makes you think that the Eagles who you said is very money conscious will had out money for a rookie.

 

Yes keep in mind I think everybody knows what they are getting with Moss and incredibly talent players who can be a real a$$ if things do not go is way. If you remember Raiders/Vikings was happy to get rid of Mr. Moss for a reason. Yet they were will to give him $10 million a year, it wouldn t cost them $10 million a year for a rookie.

 

Didn t the Eagles draft three OL in this pass year s draft? How many OL do you think that are going to draft? There weakest area is WR by far! They can easily pick up a safety in the second round in a potentially safety deep draft. If I was the Eagle I would consider it, especially in the west coast offense to have the best wr in the draft.

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Vince (7/20/2008)

"Disagree.....

With Moss and Fitzgerald, the fillies knew what they were buying. They knew the attitude and work ethic that came with those players. They knew what those guys would do on an NFL field.

Crabtree, like it or not, is still somewhat of a gamble. If he goes #1 overall, he'll likely get 40 million guaranteed and a 6 year deal. That's not going to be cheaper in the long run than either Moss or Fitzgerald ESPECIALLY if by some slight chance he doesn't pan out. I really think Crabtree is by far the best receiver to come out in several years, but like everybody in the draft, you don't know for 100% sure what you're getting until he's there.

The eagirls have also will have some holes to fill. Both of their starting OT's are going to be FA's this year as well as Brian Dawkins. JMO but Darrius Heyward-Bey/William Moore/Ciron Black combo (2 of the 3) > Micheal Crabtree and fills more holes for them."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Dude where are you getting your info from? 4 years $40 million, Ryan deal which is the highest for a rookie $34.5 guarantee which drew enough attention that the commissioner is considering a rookie contract structure. What makes you think that the Eagles who you said is very money conscious will had out money for a rookie.

You've made my point for me. WHY would the eagles, who NEVER spend big money for players, pay that much for a rookie???? They won't and that's why they won't make a deal to trade up into the top 3 (where they most likely will have to be to get Crabtree, maybe even #1). In 2007 the top paid pick got 29 million guaranteed. In 2008, that figure jumped 20% to 34.5 million. Another 20% jump for the top paid pick (and it will probably be Crabtree) equates to about 41.4 million guaranteed. I did say 40 million guaranteed in a 6 year deal, not 4 like you say here, but that is going to be the price. Salaries are not going to decrease for 2009 picks, there won't be a deal in place to get that done until 2010.
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Robb4242 (7/20/2008)
Vince (7/20/2008)

"Disagree.....

With Moss and Fitzgerald, the fillies knew what they were buying. They knew the attitude and work ethic that came with those players. They knew what those guys would do on an NFL field.

Crabtree, like it or not, is still somewhat of a gamble. If he goes #1 overall, he'll likely get 40 million guaranteed and a 6 year deal. That's not going to be cheaper in the long run than either Moss or Fitzgerald ESPECIALLY if by some slight chance he doesn't pan out. I really think Crabtree is by far the best receiver to come out in several years, but like everybody in the draft, you don't know for 100% sure what you're getting until he's there.

The eagirls have also will have some holes to fill. Both of their starting OT's are going to be FA's this year as well as Brian Dawkins. JMO but Darrius Heyward-Bey/William Moore/Ciron Black combo (2 of the 3) > Micheal Crabtree and fills more holes for them."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Dude where are you getting your info from? 4 years $40 million, Ryan deal which is the highest for a rookie $34.5 guarantee which drew enough attention that the commissioner is considering a rookie contract structure. What makes you think that the Eagles who you said is very money conscious will had out money for a rookie.

You've made my point for me. WHY would the eagles, who NEVER spend big money for players, pay that much for a rookie???? They won't and that's why they won't make a deal to trade up into the top 3 (where they most likely will have to be to get Crabtree, maybe even #1). In 2007 the top paid pick got 29 million guaranteed. In 2008, that figure jumped 20% to 34.5 million. Another 20% jump for the top paid pick (and it will probably be Crabtree) equates to about 41.4 million guaranteed. I did say 40 million guaranteed in a 6 year deal, not 4 like you say here, but that is going to be the price. Salaries are not going to decrease for 2009 picks, there won't be a deal in place to get that done until 2010.

first of all... Matt Ryan is QB.... thats why he received that much... QB have totally different different paying scales then all the other positions...... whom was drafted 1 spot behind ryan received only $26 million in guarantees......

Unless 6'3 210lbs Michael Crabtree the 1st overall pick (he wont be).... Crabtree will not get $30 million or over 30 mil in guarantees...... I see Crabtree getting drafted around the 3rd,4th, or 5th spot (after Matt Stafford and a OT)....... You said philly does not like to pay the big $.... Well they offered Moss 12 million a year.... was going give up lito and a 1st round to get and pay Fitz 10 million a year..... and just signed Asante Samuel to a 6 year , $57.14 million contract with $20 million guaranteed money....

The Team does not take the whole cap hit when a player is on his rookie contract...

My point is that it would be much cheaper and better for the future if philly went after Michael Crabtree...... Michael Crabtree is just 20 years old...... They would have a Franchise WR for the Mcnabb era and the Kevin Kold era

Michael Crabtree is in the same league with Calvin Johnson

Look at the catch at 2:52

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atljbo (7/20/2008)
i think its a real possibility because my ppls has told me that philly has already started there scouting process on Michael Crabtree.... They want and need that type of WR for Mcnabb bad....... I dont think we can get their two first round picks but he said a 1st(panthers) and 2nd round pick is very possible

i cant lie just thinking about

1st round - 6'3 225lbs SS/FS Taylor Mays

2nd round - 6'5 296lbs DT Fili Moala

2nd round - 6'6 310lbs DT Vince Oghobaase

3rd round - 6'8 350lbs RT/G Phil Loadholt

i would go crazy if this went down

I think you're on the wrong boards. I thought you were in the right place with your 1st round pick, but Fili Moala going in the 2nd round and Phil Loadholt going in the 3rd? Moala will get drafted before Mays even though I love Mays, and Loadholt won't be available out of the top of the 2nd. You're crazy.

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Brian (7/21/2008)
atljbo (7/20/2008)
i think its a real possibility because my ppls has told me that philly has already started there scouting process on Michael Crabtree.... They want and need that type of WR for Mcnabb bad....... I dont think we can get their two first round picks but he said a 1st(panthers) and 2nd round pick is very possible

i cant lie just thinking about

1st round - 6'3 225lbs SS/FS Taylor Mays

2nd round - 6'5 296lbs DT Fili Moala

2nd round - 6'6 310lbs DT Vince Oghobaase

3rd round - 6'8 350lbs RT/G Phil Loadholt

i would go crazy if this went down

I think you're on the wrong boards. I thought you were in the right place with your 1st round pick, but Fili Moala going in the 2nd round and Phil Loadholt going in the 3rd? Moala will get drafted before Mays even though I love Mays, and Loadholt won't be available out of the top of the 2nd. You're crazy.

you will see..... Fili Moala is vastly over rated...Moala played subpar and dude was playin next to freakin Sedrick Ellis ... and Loadholt will slip in a deep OT draft.... its atleast 6 OT rated before him.... This is a deep draft of versatile OT and after this year's draft OT will not be a big need for most teams..... Loadholt is only a RT

Not only with Fili Moala off the field issues but dude only mustard up 33 tackles and 2.5 sacks... playing on possibly the most talented Defense..... Sedrick Ellis was double teamed on almost every play so Fili Moala faced 1 blocker.... Now that Fili Moala does not have Ellis... you will see what im talking about

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defensedefensedefense (7/21/2008)
Just as Dallas kept their 2 1st round picks last year, the Eagirls will do the same i suspect.

I suspect they will go after 1 of these free agent WR's hard in the offseason...

Colston

Houshmanzadah

Engram

McDonald

Or maybe try and trade for Chad Johnson,Roy Williams, Roddy White, Larry Fitz or Greg Jennings...

The Dallas Situation was different..... Dallas had Marion Barber as their RB(believe it or not but dallas did make phone calls to see what it would take to get DMac)..... Mcnabb #1 WR is freakin Kevin Curtis.... Kevin Curtis over produced last year.... He is really a #2 or slot WR...... This is the main reason why Mcnabb was crying for more talent on offense this offseason.....They tried to do a trade this year... The trade thing is not happening... The saints will re sign Colston...Engram and McDonald are second tier WR like philly already has..... i think its a good chance that the bengals let T.J Houshmanzadah walk.... but i think the Titans whom has a boatload of cash will grab him...... Vince Young will finally get his target

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Just because they tried this year, doesnt mean they wont again;)

I think Fitz may well get dealt if the offer is there, both he and Boldin are up for BIG contracts in consecutive years. Chad Johnson will be the one to go, not Housh, and there was talk flying all around the league about Roy Williams getting traded.

Make no mistake... If the Eagirls can trade for a big name WR instead of throwing their draft away, they will not hesitate. I would have to say either Fitzgerald, Boldin or Williams will be an Eagirl in 2009... JMO

It wouldnt surprise me to see the Eagirls still use Sheppard in a trade before week 6... Who knows what the situation with Johnson and Williams will be by then. Cincy may well of had enough...

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atljbo (7/21/2008)
Robb4242 (7/20/2008)
Vince (7/20/2008)

"Disagree.....

With Moss and Fitzgerald, the fillies knew what they were buying. They knew the attitude and work ethic that came with those players. They knew what those guys would do on an NFL field.

Crabtree, like it or not, is still somewhat of a gamble. If he goes #1 overall, he'll likely get 40 million guaranteed and a 6 year deal. That's not going to be cheaper in the long run than either Moss or Fitzgerald ESPECIALLY if by some slight chance he doesn't pan out. I really think Crabtree is by far the best receiver to come out in several years, but like everybody in the draft, you don't know for 100% sure what you're getting until he's there.

The eagirls have also will have some holes to fill. Both of their starting OT's are going to be FA's this year as well as Brian Dawkins. JMO but Darrius Heyward-Bey/William Moore/Ciron Black combo (2 of the 3) > Micheal Crabtree and fills more holes for them."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Dude where are you getting your info from? 4 years $40 million, Ryan deal which is the highest for a rookie $34.5 guarantee which drew enough attention that the commissioner is considering a rookie contract structure. What makes you think that the Eagles who you said is very money conscious will had out money for a rookie.

You've made my point for me. WHY would the eagles, who NEVER spend big money for players, pay that much for a rookie???? They won't and that's why they won't make a deal to trade up into the top 3 (where they most likely will have to be to get Crabtree, maybe even #1). In 2007 the top paid pick got 29 million guaranteed. In 2008, that figure jumped 20% to 34.5 million. Another 20% jump for the top paid pick (and it will probably be Crabtree) equates to about 41.4 million guaranteed. I did say 40 million guaranteed in a 6 year deal, not 4 like you say here, but that is going to be the price. Salaries are not going to decrease for 2009 picks, there won't be a deal in place to get that done until 2010.

first of all... Matt Ryan is QB.... thats why he received that much... QB have totally different different paying scales then all the other positions...... whom was drafted 1 spot behind ryan received only $26 million in guarantees......

Unless 6'3 210lbs Michael Crabtree the 1st overall pick (he wont be).... Crabtree will not get $30 million or over 30 mil in guarantees...... I see Crabtree getting drafted around the 3rd,4th, or 5th spot (after Matt Stafford and a OT)....... You said philly does not like to pay the big $.... Well they offered Moss 12 million a year.... was going give up lito and a 1st round to get and pay Fitz 10 million a year..... and just signed Asante Samuel to a 6 year , $57.14 million contract with $20 million guaranteed money....

The Team does not take the whole cap hit when a player is on his rookie contract...

My point is that it would be much cheaper and better for the future if philly went after Michael Crabtree...... Michael Crabtree is just 20 years old...... They would have a Franchise WR for the Mcnabb era and the Kevin Kold era

Michael Crabtree is in the same league with Calvin Johnson

Look at the catch at 2:52

You mention Calvin Johnson. CJ was the #2 pick in the draft and at the time set the rookie record for the highest contract. That's a WR, and he was only beat by the #1 overall pick, which was a QB. He was only beat because it was a higher pick, not because it was a QB taken above him. The difference in guaranteed money that year from #1 (QB) to #2 (WR) was only 2 million dollars. Like I said above, a 20% increase in 2009's top rookie is 41.4 million guaranteed, 2 million less than that if it's a WR is 39.4 million, close enough to say 40, like I did originally. It's JMO that Crabtree doesn't fall out of the top 3.

I know it's all speculation at this point, but if Jake Long didn't sign pre-draft, and his agent saw the money Ryan got at #3, do you think they would have held out & pushed for a bigger contract than Ryan? I'd guess yes they would. Still waiting on the numbers for the Chris Long contract to come out. Probably a little less than Ryan, but I'd bet he's going to get more than Jake Long.

As for the eagles supposed offers this offseason for WR's, the Moss offer was speculated to be around 12 million, some say more, some say less. But almost every one agrees that it was a non-starter and that the only reason Moss even listened to anyone was to drive up New England's price. If Filly had thought he might actually accept, they may not have even made an offer. The Fitzgerald trade "offer" was nothing more than a basic inquiry to Arizona to see if they were even willing to trade him. According to league source mentioned in several reports, Arizona flat out said no interest. What followed, players, contracts, ect. were all just media fantasy. But yes, filly did consider investing big money in proven WR's, but I still don't believe that means they would do it for an unproven rookie. It's just not their style to do that. They are a very good drafting team, and throwing two 1st rounders away for 1 doesn't make sense for them IMO.

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defensedefensedefense (7/21/2008)
Just because they tried this year, doesnt mean they wont again;)

I think Fitz may well get dealt if the offer is there, both he and Boldin are up for BIG contracts in consecutive years. Chad Johnson will be the one to go, not Housh, and there was talk flying all around the league about Roy Williams getting traded.

Make no mistake... If the Eagirls can trade for a big name WR instead of throwing their draft away, they will not hesitate. I would have to say either Fitzgerald, Boldin or Williams will be an Eagirl in 2009... JMO

It wouldnt surprise me to see the Eagirls still use Sheppard in a trade before week 6... Who knows what the situation with Johnson and Williams will be by then. Cincy may well of had enough...

Larry Fitzgerald just signed a 4 year, $40 million contract, $30 million in guarantees 4 months ago so he is not going no where....... Anquan Boldin said that him and the Cardinals should have a new deal in place before the season............. The redskins offered two 1st round draft picks for Chad Johnson and the bengals said no...... Roy Williams is the only one of those guys that i can see possibly leavin their team next year...... The 09 season is voidable for Roy Williams... so he could be come a unrestricted freeagent...... Teams like the Titans and Bears has more cap then philly and the same need at WR

Im not saying it wont happen..... Im just saying that philly has already been checking up on Michael Crabtree history and has started their scouting process on him...... Anything can happen before next offseason

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Robb4242 (7/21/2008)

As for the eagles supposed offers this offseason for WR's, the Moss offer was speculated to be around 12 million, some say more, some say less. But almost every one agrees that it was a non-starter and that the only reason Moss even listened to anyone was to drive up New England's price. If Filly had thought he might actually accept, they may not have even made an offer. The Fitzgerald trade "offer" was nothing more than a basic inquiry to Arizona to see if they were even willing to trade him. According to league source mentioned in several reports, Arizona flat out said no interest. What followed, players, contracts, ect. were all just media fantasy. But yes, filly did consider investing big money in proven WR's, but I still don't believe that means they would do it for an unproven rookie. It's just not their style to do that. They are a very good drafting team, and throwing two 1st rounders away for 1 doesn't make sense for them IMO.

..........................................................................

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/200803...h_Patriots.html

The Eagles, according to a source close to the situation, made a prolonged effort to sign free-agent wideout Randy Moss, who ultimately decided to stay with the New England Patriots for $27 million over 3 years, $15 million guaranteed. The Birds, who signed Pats corner Asante Samuel Friday, are said to have offered more total money and more of a guarantee. But apparently, they didn't offer enough to make Moss feel comfortable leaving the team that finally got him to the Super Bowl, in the 10th and most spectacular season of his career.

"I want to take time out to thank all of the fans for their support and for wishing me well in my return to New England," Moss, 31, wrote on his Web site. "I'm ready to get back. We have some unfinished business to take care of."

Agent Tim DiPiero confirmed to ESPN.com that Moss could have gotten more elsewhere. That elsewhere was Philadelphia, another source said, adding that Moss and coach Andy Reid held an extended conversation that led to an Eagles offer. Apparently, at one point, the Birds thought they were going to get Moss, who caught an NFL-record 23 touchdown passes last season.

The eagles had a verbal agree with moss, it was that close but moss said he want a championship more......

A report surfaced Friday that the Eagles made an offer to obtain Larry Fitzgerald.

With the Cardinals and Fitzgerald at an impasse in contract negotiations, the Eagles reportedly offered CB Lito Sheppard, WR Reggie Brown and a 1st round pick as trade bait. League sources confirmed the offer, but wouldn't confirm details. The Cardinals predictably had no interest in that offer and adamantly maintain that Fitzgerald will remain in Arizona.

The Eagles tried to make something happen... It wasnt just a publicity stunt.... They want a # WR bad.... they know that Mcnabb needs more help and their future QB Kevin Kolb will need a Franchise WR

Fitz signed a 4 year, $40 million contract. The deal contains $30 million in guarantees

Michael Crabtree cap hit will be way lesser

Calvin Johnson salary:2007: $2,786,750.....2008: $3,483,438..... 2009: $4,180,125.... 2010: $4,876,813..... 2011: $5,573,500.....2012: $6,270,188

Thats Calvin Johnson cap hit each year

A Rookie whole salary does not count like a regular vet player

Vince Young:6 year, $58 million contract, $25.74 million in guarantees

so your thinking... the titans will have a huge cap hit with him.... but check this out

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...spx?player=4346

Mario Williams:six-year, $54 million contract. The deal includes $26.5 million in guarantees

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...spx?player=4335

Thats the best way i can explain it

My Point is that ... Cap wise.... it would be Much cheaper if philly if they drafted Michael Crabtree (whom they are scouting earlier)...... Dude is just 20 years old and he will be a Franchise WR in the NFL

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I honestly think the Cards wont shimmy up the coin Boldin wants. His contract will be very similar to Fitzgeralds and that is a **** of a lot of money to shell out on WR's... I dont see how Cincy could refuse 2 1st rounders for Chad Johnson, considering the Pats got Moss for a 4th. I know Moss was under performing in Oakland, but it seems like a deal of a lifetime to me. Maybe the Henry debacle made them refuse??

Roy Williams is definitely out of Detroit once his contract finishes imo, so it would be in the Lions best interests to try and deal him for a pick(s). May as well get something for him before he walks out and leaves the franchise empty handed...

Teams really arnt giving much up for players these days. Look at the last few trades that have gone down:

Jason Taylor- 2nd and 6th round

DeAngelo Hall- 2nd and 5th?

Corey Williams- 2nd

Chris Chambers- 2nd

The Jared Allen trade is the exception here- 1st and 2 3rd's...

I think the Eagles would be able to trade for Williams/Johnson/Boldin if they ponied up a decent deal. A 1st round pick and a 4th, or Sheppard and a 2nd would just about get the job done imo If the Eagles think they can compete for the big one this season, they BETTER come up with a solution at WR. What they have lining up is woeful. McNabb may have a season or 3 left in the tank, they need a WR that has already performed at a probowl level and is a proven #1 NFL wideout...

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Robb4242 (7/20/2008)
Vince (7/20/2008)

"Disagree.....

With Moss and Fitzgerald, the fillies knew what they were buying. They knew the attitude and work ethic that came with those players. They knew what those guys would do on an NFL field.

Crabtree, like it or not, is still somewhat of a gamble. If he goes #1 overall, he'll likely get 40 million guaranteed and a 6 year deal. That's not going to be cheaper in the long run than either Moss or Fitzgerald ESPECIALLY if by some slight chance he doesn't pan out. I really think Crabtree is by far the best receiver to come out in several years, but like everybody in the draft, you don't know for 100% sure what you're getting until he's there.

The eagirls have also will have some holes to fill. Both of their starting OT's are going to be FA's this year as well as Brian Dawkins. JMO but Darrius Heyward-Bey/William Moore/Ciron Black combo (2 of the 3) > Micheal Crabtree and fills more holes for them."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Dude where are you getting your info from? 4 years $40 million, Ryan deal which is the highest for a rookie $34.5 guarantee which drew enough attention that the commissioner is considering a rookie contract structure. What makes you think that the Eagles who you said is very money conscious will had out money for a rookie.

You've made my point for me. WHY would the eagles, who NEVER spend big money for players, pay that much for a rookie???? They won't and that's why they won't make a deal to trade up into the top 3 (where they most likely will have to be to get Crabtree, maybe even #1). In 2007 the top paid pick got 29 million guaranteed. In 2008, that figure jumped 20% to 34.5 million. Another 20% jump for the top paid pick (and it will probably be Crabtree) equates to about 41.4 million guaranteed. I did say 40 million guaranteed in a 6 year deal, not 4 like you say here, but that is going to be the price. Salaries are not going to decrease for 2009 picks, there won't be a deal in place to get that done until 2010.

 

There is no way that a WR taken in picks 3-5 will get 40 million guaranteed! The only reason why Ryan got that was because he was a QB (different pay scale) and we wanted to make news! Look at how much publicity that got! Like I said earlier I wouldn't be surprise that the commissioner don't attempt to impliment a rookie payscale because of it at the next cba. And to say that the highest pay rookie contract increase 20% every year is ignornace, **** the salary cap and revenues doesn't grow at that rate. If we were to use your math two years from now guarantee rookie contracts will be almost $60 million in guaranteed for 6 year deals.

 

All I am saying is yes I would love to play GM (I m sure we all would) and think of possible scenarios that can improve my teams favorite chances of being a successful franchise. I m just putting the idea out there, that if we should fall in the realm of picks 3-5 and possibly Philly or any other team feels they are one impact player away from being a super bowl team that there is a chance we can also put our self in a good position. With a cap friendly 09 year and a possible high draft pick it is not too earlier to consider moves, hopefully TD is!

 

We have as strong feeling that Milloy, Brookings and Horn will not be on the team come 09. We more than likely have a need at DT and RT/RG. Why not try and get more bang for the buck. Even if we just trade for a 1st and 2nd round pick, depending on position we still can address these holes with some high quality picks. Mays/Rolle can fall to the 14th pick I can see one of these DT falling to the second round (Woods, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Marks or Oghobaase) and definitely a RT/RG in the middle of the 2nd round (Smith, Loadholt, Black or Robinson).

 
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These quotes are getting too long.

Vince, the rookie salaries are escalating out of control. It wasn't just because of Ryan's contract that the commish said something about it, the commish first made comments this year in regards to Jake Long's contract. But this is something that has been discussed over the last several years. But with the opportunity to start negotiating this into the new CBA, this year's crop of rookies are the ones being pointed out by the NFL. Ryan is the focal point of that right now, but we still don't know what Chris Long signed for, and it could have been more than Ryan.

In the 2009 draft, there is not going to be any way to negotiate a rookie salary structure into that. That will have to be a part of the CBA and that will not be done until 2010 at the earliest (and let's hope there is not a lockout). Because it will be done by the 2010 draft most people believe, that is why there is so much hubbub over all the juniors & RS soph's coming out in the 2009 draft. They know they will not make nearly as much money if they wait until 2010 or later.

You are right though, a 20% increase is not something that can be predicted with accuracy. However, you would agree that in like every past year rookies in 2009 will get more than the 2008 person picked in their draft position right? From 2006 to 2007 there was around a 14% increase, and from 2007 to 2008 there was around a 20% increase for the top 4 picks (again, not knowing what C. Long got). The guys in 2009 are going to be looking for similar increases. If it turns out to be a 10% increase, then the top guy will get somewhere around 38 million. If there is not a QB in that top group then it's probably the #1 pick to get that. I think Crabtree can (and IMO should at this point) go #1. You can't say they won't pay a rookie WR a record breaking salary. It's been done. CJ received a rookie record breaking salary when he signed, but then ended up being out done by the #1 pick in his draft, which happened to be a QB.

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Robb4242 (7/21/2008)
These quotes are getting too long.

Vince, the rookie salaries are escalating out of control. It wasn't just because of Ryan's contract that the commish said something about it, the commish first made comments this year in regards to Jake Long's contract. But this is something that has been discussed over the last several years. But with the opportunity to start negotiating this into the new CBA, this year's crop of rookies are the ones being pointed out by the NFL. Ryan is the focal point of that right now, but we still don't know what Chris Long signed for, and it could have been more than Ryan.

In the 2009 draft, there is not going to be any way to negotiate a rookie salary structure into that. That will have to be a part of the CBA and that will not be done until 2010 at the earliest (and let's hope there is not a lockout). Because it will be done by the 2010 draft most people believe, that is why there is so much hubbub over all the juniors & RS soph's coming out in the 2009 draft. They know they will not make nearly as much money if they wait until 2010 or later.

You are right though, a 20% increase is not something that can be predicted with accuracy. However, you would agree that in like every past year rookies in 2009 will get more than the 2008 person picked in their draft position right? From 2006 to 2007 there was around a 14% increase, and from 2007 to 2008 there was around a 20% increase for the top 4 picks (again, not knowing what C. Long got). The guys in 2009 are going to be looking for similar increases. If it turns out to be a 10% increase, then the top guy will get somewhere around 38 million. If there is not a QB in that top group then it's probably the #1 pick to get that. I think Crabtree can (and IMO should at this point) go #1. You can't say they won't pay a rookie WR a record breaking salary. It's been done. CJ received a rookie record breaking salary when he signed, but then ended up being out done by the #1 pick in his draft, which happened to be a QB.

Crabtree is not going 1st overall.... i have a feeling that Crabtree will go around 3, 4, or 5....... If he does go #1..... the teem picking is going to do the same thing the dolphins did..... they will negotiate with others to get Crabtree at a good price......

But no way in **** a rookie will hit 40 million in guarantees... especially not a WR....

and the chris Long thing.....

SI.com's Peter King hears that Chris Long's rookie deal with St. Louis represents a 16% pay increase over last year's No. 2 pick, Calvin Johnson.

Long got roughly $29 million guaranteed on a six-year deal with the last season being optional. Johnson's six-year, $55.5 million pact guaranteed him $27.178 million. Rookies at the top of this year's draft got more money than ever, despite the league acknowledging what a problem it's become.

so no way its hittin 40 million.......... anyway ive shown you how the rookie cap hit works

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Robb4242 (7/21/2008)
These quotes are getting too long.

Vince, the rookie salaries are escalating out of control. It wasn't just because of Ryan's contract that the commish said something about it, the commish first made comments this year in regards to Jake Long's contract. But this is something that has been discussed over the last several years. But with the opportunity to start negotiating this into the new CBA, this year's crop of rookies are the ones being pointed out by the NFL. Ryan is the focal point of that right now, but we still don't know what Chris Long signed for, and it could have been more than Ryan.

In the 2009 draft, there is not going to be any way to negotiate a rookie salary structure into that. That will have to be a part of the CBA and that will not be done until 2010 at the earliest (and let's hope there is not a lockout). Because it will be done by the 2010 draft most people believe, that is why there is so much hubbub over all the juniors & RS soph's coming out in the 2009 draft. They know they will not make nearly as much money if they wait until 2010 or later.

You are right though, a 20% increase is not something that can be predicted with accuracy. However, you would agree that in like every past year rookies in 2009 will get more than the 2008 person picked in their draft position right? From 2006 to 2007 there was around a 14% increase, and from 2007 to 2008 there was around a 20% increase for the top 4 picks (again, not knowing what C. Long got). The guys in 2009 are going to be looking for similar increases. If it turns out to be a 10% increase, then the top guy will get somewhere around 38 million. If there is not a QB in that top group then it's probably the #1 pick to get that. I think Crabtree can (and IMO should at this point) go #1. You can't say they won't pay a rookie WR a record breaking salary. It's been done. CJ received a rookie record breaking salary when he signed, but then ended up being out done by the #1 pick in his draft, which happened to be a QB.

Please check my work because this is a make shift chart showing guarantee money in rookie contracts for the past 4 years picks 3-5 which is what this suggested discussion is about trading the pick 3rd-5th pick and defending salaries comparison over the years. My sources are at the bottom of the chart. As you can see guarantee money hasn't really grown that much over the 3-4 year span. So where is the 20% annual increase?

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

 

2004

2005

2006

2007

2008

Pick 3

20

18.5

25.74

23

34.5

 

 

-7.5%

39.1%

-10.6%

50.0%

Pick 4

19

17

17.9

18.56

 

 

 

-10.5%

5.3%

3.7%

-100.0%

Pick 5

18

13.113

16

18

 

 

 

-27.2%

22.0%

12.5%

-100.0%

 

CAG  (1)

14.6%

2004-2008 Annual Growth

 

CAG  (1)

-0.8%

2004-2007 Annual Growth

 

CAG  (1)

0.0%

2004-2007 Annual Growth

 

Note:  (1) Compound Annual Growth

 

Sources: Rotosports.com & espn.com

 

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Vince (7/21/2008)
Robb4242 (7/21/2008)
These quotes are getting too long.

Vince, the rookie salaries are escalating out of control. It wasn't just because of Ryan's contract that the commish said something about it, the commish first made comments this year in regards to Jake Long's contract. But this is something that has been discussed over the last several years. But with the opportunity to start negotiating this into the new CBA, this year's crop of rookies are the ones being pointed out by the NFL. Ryan is the focal point of that right now, but we still don't know what Chris Long signed for, and it could have been more than Ryan.

In the 2009 draft, there is not going to be any way to negotiate a rookie salary structure into that. That will have to be a part of the CBA and that will not be done until 2010 at the earliest (and let's hope there is not a lockout). Because it will be done by the 2010 draft most people believe, that is why there is so much hubbub over all the juniors & RS soph's coming out in the 2009 draft. They know they will not make nearly as much money if they wait until 2010 or later.

You are right though, a 20% increase is not something that can be predicted with accuracy. However, you would agree that in like every past year rookies in 2009 will get more than the 2008 person picked in their draft position right? From 2006 to 2007 there was around a 14% increase, and from 2007 to 2008 there was around a 20% increase for the top 4 picks (again, not knowing what C. Long got). The guys in 2009 are going to be looking for similar increases. If it turns out to be a 10% increase, then the top guy will get somewhere around 38 million. If there is not a QB in that top group then it's probably the #1 pick to get that. I think Crabtree can (and IMO should at this point) go #1. You can't say they won't pay a rookie WR a record breaking salary. It's been done. CJ received a rookie record breaking salary when he signed, but then ended up being out done by the #1 pick in his draft, which happened to be a QB.

Please check my work because this is a make shift chart showing guarantee money in rookie contracts for the past 4 years picks 3-5 which is what thissuggested discussion is about trading the pick 3rd-5th pick and defendingsalaries comparison over the years. My sources are at the bottom of the chart. As you can see guarantee money hasn't really grown that much over the 3-4 year span. So where is the 20% annual increase?

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

2004

2005

2006

2007

2008

Pick 3

20

18.5

25.74

23

34.5

-7.5%

39.1%

-10.6%

50.0%

Pick 4

19

17

17.9

18.56

-10.5%

5.3%

3.7%

-100.0%

Pick 5

18

13.113

16

18

-27.2%

22.0%

12.5%

-100.0%

CAG (1)

14.6%

2004-2008 Annual Growth

CAG (1)

-0.8%

2004-2007 Annual Growth

CAG (1)

0.0%

2004-2007 Annual Growth

Note: (1) Compound Annual Growth

Sources: Rotosports.com & espn.com

That's a good look at the numbers. Would be interested to see the increases at #'s 1 & 2 as well if you have that info. I would think you would see a CAG similar to that of the #3 pick.

McFadden had a contract with 26 million guaranteed at the #4 slot this year, which I think is about a 28.5% increase over last year. How does that affect the CAG for the #4 pick?

The increases that I had posted before were just the top rookie signing bonus before and did not specify pick position (bad argument parameters maybe). But could the numbers be run for just the largest guaranteed money for those years?

Also, I'm not a finance major (and I hated that class), but can't the average rate of increase of the contract be figured by averaging the increases over the years? Looking at the #3 pick and using your figures, I see an average rate of increase at 17.75% since 2004, but I could be doing that wrong.

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