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This nation needs to become 100% independent of foreign oil within 10 years no matter what it takes.


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You are 100% correct on this issue, Marvinthemartian. The day we can tell the Middle East to go "F" themseves and for them to take thier oil and shove it where the sun dont shine, will be the day we become the ultimate super power. We can "kill so many birds" with one stone, when we can accomplish this. Our economy will rise off the charts. Our environment will be much better. We can pull all our forces out of the ME. The terrorists will have no excuse to go after us. This should be the #1 issue.

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marvinthemartian (7/20/2008)
The only way we reduce price is to reduce demand. 

With respect to the fact that oil prices are also partly a reflection of our weak currency and other nations who DEMAND payment for oil in a valuable currency, are GM and Ford gonna stop selling gasoline powered automobiles to India and China anytime soon??  Doubt it.

Personally I see a decrease in U.S. Domestic gasoline consumption to be perhaps entirely offset by a record INCREASE in the number of automobiles I see our American automakers selling in other nations overseas. A SHIFT in demand flowing out of America and into foreign nations does not automatically mean the price of oil is going down.  That would require a decrease in overall global demand, imo.

But a decrease in global demand is not going to happen when some of our greatest American industires are shaking hands with the commies who are subsidizing their business now that GMAC and GM have helped spoil our own domestic lending institutions' ability to sell car loans or home loans for that matter.  I guess you can say "well somebody's gotta sell cars in India, may as well be us" but there's a huge conflict between fighting a dependence on "foreign" oil while creating MORE global dependence on oil.

Do I believe America can make a significant impact at lowering the price of crude oil?  NO because our own automakers are working against us in a conflict of interest.  Show me where oil pumped from the OCS will be restricted for use in America when it's actually the exporters who are lining up to take advantage of global pricing power and make money hand over fist in a weak American economy.  Some politicians sure have a lot of people fooled as to what their real motivations are.

Do I believe Amerca can increase the value of it's own energy efficiency?  YES but what the **** do wind farms have to do with our dependency on "foreign" oil??  That makes no sense at all to talk about our dependence on foreign oil and show a picture of a windmill.  Last time I checked people don't drive windmills.

 Bottom line is until we see sovereign investment funds come back to our windows and prop up our credit, oil and gold will remain high while the dollar stays low.

:discuss:

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Here is another post I made about a month ago that also hit the nail on the head in terms of the OCS issue

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Speculators

Supply/Demand

Weak U.S. Dollar

Nigerian militants

OPEC

Offshore Drilling Ban

Take your pick fellas. Ultimately, the reason oil is going up is because the American economy is weak. The major Wall St. investment banks, energy firms, and government administrations are bidding up oil because energy commodities have more intrinsic value than anything else in the market.

It's a derivative of "Reaganomics". Big Gov has run fiscal responsibility into the ground thanks to sub-prime and war profiteering so it appears the only move they have left is to outspend the rest of the world on energy to sustain our global dominance as a first world power.

It's pretty #####ing sad we've come to this if you ask me.

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marvinthemartian (7/20/2008)
We are no longer the largest users.

WTH??

B.S. we're not.

Our total percentage of worldwide usage compared with the combined increasing usage by China and India is less as a percentage of the total demand than it used to be. At one point we could say "Well we just wont use it" or something to that effect, and the demand side of the equation would go down significantly.  Now, there are more customers and as such, more demand.  We do not hold the sway that we used to hold.  Those are the hard, cold facts. 

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China and India have just stuck the big straws into the oil supply. China now has 30 million drivers and are building a highway system like the US did during the 1950s. Just this last year China was adding 25,000 cars a day or 9 million new drivers and it is growing exponentially as the Chinese are subsidizing the price of gasoline to the growing Chinese upper & middle classes. Next up India. No matter how much oil is found the price of oil won't come down any more. We found that out this last year as speculators told us America driving less will no longer bring drown the price of gasoline at the pump. Those who drive big SUVs are directly responsible for us having troops in the middle east to keep their huge appetite for oil. I am tired of paying trillions of dollars as a tax payers to pay for middle eastern wars for oil. I no longer care about the middle east Venezula hates us and sells us oil just as these middle eastern countries will do to rake in oil money at over $100 a barrel. I hope we do dump all middle eastern oil.

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me51 (7/20/2008)
Who exactly said we have to be independent of oil besides liberals? 
Any American with a **** brain. 

Not only is oil largely concentrated under the control of regimes opposed to American interests and supporting terrorism; it's a limited, non-renewable resource that is harmful to the environment and increasingly more expensive, strangling the middle class.

We do need to be oil independent of other nation, but we have oil here we can live on if democrats will let us get it.

link? the only people claiming we have enough oil in the US to satisfy demand are special-interests groups that stand to profit from it, and the mindless idiots who buy into it because they use language that appeals to your immature partisan fervor. stop believing everything Rush Limbaugh and his oil sponsors tell you. stop being a tool. 

beside the fact that even if we started drilling it would take 5-10 years to see a drop of it- it's a globally-traded commodity. that is, unless you're advocating nationalizing domestic oil industry a la Venezuela or Russia. why would an oil company sell it for less to the US when there's an exploding foreign market more than happy to pay more? tax subsidies?

for a so-called "conservative", you sure do seem to be in favor of corporate welfare and nationalization of industry.

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XLDenaliReturns (7/20/2008)
me51 (7/20/2008)
Who exactly said we have to be independent of oil besides liberals?
Any Americanwith a **** brain.

Not only is oil largely concentrated under the control of regimes opposed to American interests and supporting terrorism; it's a limited, non-renewable resource that is harmful to the environment and increasingly more expensive, strangling the middle class.

We do need to be oil independent of other nation, but we have oil here we can live on if democrats will let us get it.

link?the only people claiming we have enoughoil in the US to satisfy demand are special-interests groups that stand to profit from it, and the mindless idiots who buy into it becausethey use language that appealsto your immature partisan fervor.stop believing everything Rush Limbaugh and his oil sponsors tell you. stop being a tool.

beside the fact that even if we started drilling it would take 5-10 years to see a drop of it- it's a globally-traded commodity. that is, unless you're advocating nationalizing domestic oil industry a la Venezuela or Russia. why would an oil company sell it for less to the US when there's an exploding foreign market more than happy to pay more? tax subsidies?

for a so-called "conservative", you sure do seem to be in favor of corporate welfare and nationalization of industry.

He believes whatever Rush, Hannity and Beck tell him to believe :)

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marvinthemartian (7/20/2008)
marvinthemartian (7/20/2008)
We are no longer the largest users.

Our total percentage of worldwide usage compared with the combined increasing usage by China and India is less as a percentage of the total demand than it used to be. At one point we could say "Well we just wont use it" or something to that effect, and the demand side of the equation would go down significantly.  Now, there are more customers and as such, more demand.  We do not hold the sway that we used to hold.  Those are the hard, cold facts. 

While I agree with the above that we no longer have as significant of an influence on oil prices as we once did, we are also the only nation in the world using over 20 Million bbls a day.

We are still the world's largest consumers of oil.  The EU uses a little more than half the oil the US does and we still blow them away.

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me51 (7/20/2008)Who exactly said we have to be independent of oil besides liberals? 

We will NEVER be independent of oil because we fabricate too many synthetics.

me51 (7/20/2008)We do need to be oil independent of other nation, but we have oil here we can live on if democrats will let us get it.

LOL

We might could live off the oil we have here if the oil compaines and the automakers would just sell it to us instead of looking to drive demand up by selling their products to the highest bidders overseas.

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terryowens_ (7/22/2008)

We might could live off the oil we have here if the oil compaines and the automakers would just sell it to us instead of looking to drive demand up by selling their products to the highest bidders overseas.

We only export roughly 1 million barrels of oil a year and that's mostly to Puerto Rico, a US territory...

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Y'all....we only import 20% of our oil from the middle east. 

We buy much more oil from Canada and Mexico...you know....our FRIENDS? 

What makes you think anyone in power is ever going to decide to cripple their economies by ceasing the purchase of oil? And what would happen afterward if we did?  They'd just stick their hands out for more US AID, and we'd be obliged to for it over because WE crippled their economies.  It's a big wheel that can't be stopped simply because we want to stop it.

It ain't gonna happen, folks.  Oil is the blood of business, and it will be for the next hundred years.

It's not idealogy that prevents us from weening off crude oil. 

IT'S BUSINESS

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