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'King' Arthur has made himself and Matt Ryan marked men...


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The Falcon Ace (5/21/2008)
norwood-32 (5/21/2008)
The Falcon Ace (5/21/2008)
norwood-32 (5/21/2008)
Did Brees lead them anywhere? Did Leftwich? Only when both teams got a good defense and line did they start winning.

No, that is because Brees was traded out and Leftwich was injury prone. However, Brees did pretty well until everything else could get going, as did the others I mentioned. QBs take time to get fully devoloped, and having them before everything else is set up is a plan that has worked many times over. Contrary to what your OP states.

Quarterbacks also fail when the missing pieces are not there. Take Joey Harrington and David Carr for example. Part of the reason they failed was because of a missing offensive line. Now that the Texans have finally started building a foundation, their team is finally improving.

What about the Colts, Brees, Eli, etc.

Some QBs cannot take the heat, some can. There is no reason you cannot keep them on the bench if you feel the situation will have negative effects on your QB. Peyton took some serious lumps as a rookie, but he turned out fine.

It's not about how good the QB is, but more about how good his supporting cast. Peyton would have never done it without two good receivers, a great line, and good defense. Neither would have Eli. And I wonder why Brees in New Orleans isn't doing so well.

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norwood-32 (5/21/2008)
The Falcon Ace (5/21/2008)
norwood-32 (5/21/2008)
The Falcon Ace (5/21/2008)
norwood-32 (5/21/2008)
Did Brees lead them anywhere? Did Leftwich? Only when both teams got a good defense and line did they start winning.

No, that is because Brees was traded out and Leftwich was injury prone. However, Brees did pretty well until everything else could get going, as did the others I mentioned. QBs take time to get fully devoloped, and having them before everything else is set up is a plan that has worked many times over. Contrary to what your OP states.

Quarterbacks also fail when the missing pieces are not there. Take Joey Harrington and David Carr for example. Part of the reason they failed was because of a missing offensive line. Now that the Texans have finally started building a foundation, their team is finally improving.

What about the Colts, Brees, Eli, etc.

Some QBs cannot take the heat, some can. There is no reason you cannot keep them on the bench if you feel the situation will have negative effects on your QB. Peyton took some serious lumps as a rookie, but he turned out fine.

It's not about how good the QB is, but more about how good his supporting cast. Peyton would have never done it without two good receivers, a great line, and good defense. Neither would have Eli. And I wonder why Brees in New Orleans isn't doing so well.

Peyton didn't have all that from Day 1, he started off without much and had peices added around him. Same with Eli. Brees is doing pretty well in NO, their defense just will not let them go anywhere. Brees was 2nd in passing yards this year and 1st last year. He tied with Brett Favre at 6th in TD passes and was 3rd last year. As I said, he is doing fine, they just need a defense and they have the NFC South on lockdown.

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norwood-32 (5/21/2008)

cooperbh (5/21/2008)

Chuck Noll started with the QB.

Bill Walsh started with the QB.

Jimmy Johnson started with the QB.

Bill Polian started with the QB. Twice.

Sounds like a winning formula to me...

Quarterbacks can't succeed if they don't have the right supporting cast.

True, but that's not the argument here. Your argument was that you are unlikely to create a winning franchise by building around a QB. In case you need a reminder of exactly what you said...

"While it's good and all to pay big money to a hopeful franchise quarterback, the difference between our franchise and those like the Bears, Ravens and any other intelligent organization that needs a quarterback is how they go about building their team. Most teams follow the idea of building a good foundation, and then finding a quarterback that could take the team over the hump and into the Superbowl."

My post clearly demonstrates that your entire premise is nonsense. I also find it amusing that you completely fail to recognize that the teams you cited as examples of "intelligent" organizations actually do not "get over the hump and into the Superbowl" on any consistent basis. And that is for one reason and one reason only - not one of them has had a franchise QB.

To wrap this thing up, I'm gonna list the number of SB appearances that all of the teams mentioned here have made under the GMs that built them...

Me: Steelers (4), 49ers (5), Cowboys (3), Bills (4), Colts (1) - 17 appearances, 13 wins.

You: Ravens (1), Bears (1), Chargers (0), Jags (0) - 2 appearances, 1 win.

I think we're pretty much done here.

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