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Albert vs. Baker


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aveboogie2 (5/8/2008)

Alberts' best football is ahead of him because he was picked higher than Baker based upon potential. If it was all about past performance, selecting Baker wouldn't have been widely considered a reach.

This is exactly where teams turn into the sucker at the poker table. They ignore what a player is while fantasizing about what he could be in a perfect scenario somewhere down the line. Baker was better than Alberts every day of their college careers. You take the one who maybe develops into a better player at some point down the line. I'll take the one who is better right now today and that is now and always has been Baker.

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SteelerDawg6481 (5/8/2008)
Sun Tzu 7 (5/8/2008)

What's Baker's footwork like?

His footwork and technique are near impeccable.

Arm length doesn't matter. Technique and footwork does. And Baker has that in spades.

Says who? The same scouts who says he had short arms?

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aveboogie2 (5/8/2008)
So because you believe Baker's arms are longer than Long's that means they're not short? How do YOU equate this?

Surgery in January, cracked ribs in August, missed 3 games and the majority of 2 others.

Better athlete...Albert ranked #1 for offensive lineman in broad jump and the 40. Baker could barely crack a 5.6 40.

Alberts' best football is ahead of him because he was picked higher than Baker based upon potential. If it was all about past performance, selecting Baker wouldn't have been widely considered a reach.

If Sam Baker's arms are "short", then that must mean Jake Long's arms are rediculously short. Yet no one has said anything about Long's arm length. That spells to me that the "short arms" was either a smoke screen/deceptive tactic so he would drop more or some "expert" is just full of S*.

He has an injury in his senior season and now he is "injury prone". Last year he was the 2nd rated tackle behind Joe Thomas. Now he had an extra year for scouts to nit pick him until he looked like the worst tackle taken in the draft.

As for your last sentence, it seems you imply that the higher you're taken, the better you WILL be. That's a pretty ignorant sweeping generalization.

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jidady (5/8/2008)
aveboogie2 (5/8/2008)

Left knee surgery in Jan. 2008, cracked rib in August and hamstring injury during the season.

So, he missed 3 games in four seasons with an injury that generally keeps football players out 6 weeks. That's an argument for an iron man, not a negative.

Well, I see to make a point, you neglected to include the post I was responding to which say, paraphrasing, Baker did not have an injury plagued season when in fact he did. The injuries are quoted above. I never said Baker had an CAREER marred by injury.

You also didn't mention the two other games, as a senior, in which Baker missed the vast majority of due to the hamstring injury.

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jidady (5/8/2008)
muskokas finest (5/8/2008)
Even at Guard, Albert still had a first round grade, Baker didn't. Albert played OG cause Virginia already had a good LT

Ferguson came out after the 05 season. Albert had two years to win the job as LT, the glamor spot on the line. He didn't do so. He was only slotted there twice in an emergency situation. If Ferguson were still there, you might have a point. As it stands, the LT the coaching staff at Virginia believed was better suited there than Albert is currently projected as only a 3rd round pick.

It was more a matter of Eugene Monroe being a good LT, but not being able to move to guard the way Albert could.

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SteelerDawg6481 (5/8/2008)
muskokas finest (5/8/2008)
Even at Guard, Albert still had a first round grade, Baker didn't. Albert played OG cause Virginia already had a good LT
And the reason bnaker didn't have a 1st round grade is b/c he was hurt last year. If he had come out after his Junior year, he'd of been the second OT off the board after Joe Thomas.

Some of you guys need to think before you type.

You need to comprehend before you reply. If Baker doesn't have a first round grade the reason really doesn't matter, does it, he still was a reach. If you miss part of the season with nagging injuries, then the question arises "is he tough enough?" Baker isn't an elite run or pass blocker, just a solid college player. Albert will be a solid pro.

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aveboogie2 (5/8/2008)

You also didn't mention the two other games, as a senior, in which Baker missed the vast majority of due to the hamstring injury.

Because I saw both of those games and what you are describing as "vast majority" I know to be less than 50%. I actually broke down one of them on the draft board. He had four pancakes in that game against Arizona. So, he did shockingly well for a guy out the "vast majority" of the game. He also was dominating Oregon right up until he re-injured the hamstring a lesser man would not have tried to play through. BTW, his blocking grade in those two games where he shouldn't have been playing was 88.5. You'd be well served to focus on the three he missed rather than the two where he battled through injuries to dominate.

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muskokas finest (5/8/2008)

It was more a matter of Eugene Monroe being a good LT, but not being able to move to guard the way Albert could.

It's not that. Monroe didn't win the job outright. Zak Stair and him split it throughout 2006. Albert was never considered for it, which is telling about he was viewed by the coaching staff. Albert's not playing LT was about him, not Monroe or Stair. Monroe developed in 2007, but he was nothing special in 2006.

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muskokas finest (5/8/2008)
Baker isn't an elite run or pass blocker, just a solid college player.

Baker is one of the best pass blockers the college game has produced this generation. Pro Football Weekly graded every play of his college career. They credited one sack to him. One.

Albert will be a solid pro.

As a guard, the only position he's proved to have any skill at playing.

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jidady (5/8/2008)
muskokas finest (5/8/2008)
Baker isn't an elite run or pass blocker, just a solid college player.

Baker is one of the best pass blockers the college game has produced this generation. Pro Football Weekly graded every play of his college career. They credited one sack to him. One.

Albert will be a solid pro.

As a guard, the only position he's proved to have any skill at playing.

This is a sampling of what Pro Football Weekly had to say about Baker

PFW associate editor Matt Sohn:

USC OT Sam Baker. It happens all the time. A team sees a dwindling pool of players at a position of need, panics, and reaches for a player whose ability doesn t approach his draft slot. That situation couldn t have more aptly described what happened to the Falcons in Round One. With six offensive tackles already off the board and believing they needed a tackle to help aid a shoddy line and protect new franchise QB Matt Ryan, the Falcons not only selected Baker at No. 21 a full round earlier than he should ve gone, but also gave up too much. For as needy as the Falcons are at a host of positions, the draft position that they relinquished in the second round (two picks) was too valuable. From Winston Justice to Jacob Rogers to Travis Claridge, recent highly drafted USC offensive linemen have badly underachieved in the NFL. You ll soon be able to add Baker to a growing list.

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Yes, I know and I've also got the magazine sitting in my closet that specifically states he only gave up one sack in his career. It's the madness of the draft process for exactly this sort of double-speak in the analysis of a prospect. They also consider Ryan pro-ready because of his willingness to throw into coverage to try to make a play. Me, I call that stupid.

One irrefutable sack allowed in four years in a pro style passing attack is all sorts of spectacular and I'm pretty sure you know that.

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jidady (5/8/2008)
Yes, I know and I've also got the magazine sitting in my closet that specifically states he only gave up one sack in his career. It's the madness of the draft process for exactly this sort of double-speak in the analysis of a prospect. They also consider Ryan pro-ready because of his willingness to throw into coverage to try to make a play. Me, I call that stupid.

One irrefutable sack allowed in four years in a pro style passing attack is all sorts of spectacular and I'm pretty sure you know that.

It's actually 4.5 sacks in 886 passing plays i believe

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That's what NFL Draft Scout reports. Grab a copy of the Pro Football Weekly draft guide and you will see that they only ascribe one sack directly to Baker in his college career, which I'm sure you will agree is amazing for a major college four-year starter.

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jidady (5/8/2008)
That's what NFL Draft Scout reports. Grab a copy of the Pro Football Weekly draft guide and you will see that they only ascribe one sack directly to Baker in his college career, which I'm sure you will agree is amazing for a major college four-year starter.

especially at USC where they play top quality competition all the time. and in a pro-style team.

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grendel (5/8/2008)
HailRazor (5/8/2008)
I can't figure out something the media keeps pushing. At 15, the Chiefs drafting an OG that they are going to try to make a LT is a brilliant move. But after there was a run on LT, the Falcons trade back up and grab a true LT, and it is a horrible reach and wasted a draft pick.

I just don't understand the logic. Maybe someone can explain it to me.

The answer is, if you're expected to be a top 15 pick in the draft as a Junior, come out IMMEDIATELY. If you go back to school, they'll spend a year nitpicking your game and unfairly drop you in the rankings. It doesn't help if you have an injury as a Senior either. In any case, the two main poster boys for that this year, Baker and Brohm, ended up being great values for the teams that got them, IMO.

I totally agree.  A 3-time All-American left tackle is pretty much getting the one of the best that college has to offer.  Brandon Albert wasn't an All-American once at guard or tackle.

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jimusmc (5/8/2008)
jidady (5/8/2008)
That's what NFL Draft Scout reports. Grab a copy of the Pro Football Weekly draft guide and you will see that they only ascribe one sack directly to Baker in his college career, which I'm sure you will agree is amazing for a major college four-year starter.

especially at USC where they play top quality competition all the time. and in a pro-style team.

Except for Bruce Davis, the Pac 10 didn't boast a lot of elite pass rushers.

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I don't disagree, but USC's schedule isn't just PAC 10 teams. Baker matched up against Justin Tuck and Tim Crowder during his career. He also was called the best offensive lineman by the coaching staff at a time where they had six players who would go on to be drafted in the NFL, three of them being second rounders. There is nothing to dislike about Sam Baker as a football player. As Ravens director of player personnel Eric DeCosta said, "He's a guy you win with." It's that simple.

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Ferguson left VA after 2005 (drafted 2006).  So why didn't Brandon Albert beat out Eugene Monroe for the LT spot?  The guy could have at least claimed the LT spot once D'Brick was gone.

39 starts at LT for USC is better than 34 starts at G with 2 starts at LT for VA.

A great workout tour leading up to the draft doesn't beat solid on field experience at the position.  If NFL scouts had Albert as a better LT than any of the top 5 LT's in the draft I would have to wonder.  They don't have much film on the guy playing out on an island as LT's have to do.

Albert will be a great pro, but think Leonard Davis not Orlando Pace.  And trading back up to #15 for a guard is more of a gamble.  We traded back up to #21 for a 3 time All-American LT.  I'm okay with that.

Heck, Houston took Duane Brown five picks later at #26.  That my friends was a reach.

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muskokas finest (5/8/2008)
SteelerDawg6481 (5/8/2008)
muskokas finest (5/8/2008)
Even at Guard, Albert still had a first round grade, Baker didn't. Albert played OG cause Virginia already had a good LT
And the reason bnaker didn't have a 1st round grade is b/c he was hurt last year. If he had come out after his Junior year, he'd of been the second OT off the board after Joe Thomas.

Some of you guys need to think before you type.

You need to comprehend before you reply. If Baker doesn't have a first round grade the reason really doesn't matter, does it, he still was a reach. If you miss part of the season with nagging injuries, then the question arises "is he tough enough?" Baker isn't an elite run or pass blocker, just a solid college player. Albert will be a solid pro.

Why is Baker a reach? TD stated clearly that the draft would be needs-based. We needed a LT and he moved to get the best, in their estimation, available. Albert will be a solid pro? Really? You can fill a stadium with players who moved up draft boards based on impressive pre-draft workouts then went on to obscurity and mediocrity in the pros. He has potential but hardly a sure thing.

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littlemac (5/9/2008)
Here are some photos of Jake Long and Sam Baker standing next to each other.

http://www.trojanwire.com/football/sam-bak...photo-shoot.php

Looks like quite a difference in arm length.

sam_baker_playboy_2007.jpg

Long is taller and his arms hang down longer....I see an obvious difference.

I think this is the part where Baker fanatics say playing LT has little to do with arm length. Joe Thomas last year, yada yada....

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bart (5/9/2008)
muskokas finest (5/8/2008)
SteelerDawg6481 (5/8/2008)
muskokas finest (5/8/2008)
Even at Guard, Albert still had a first round grade, Baker didn't. Albert played OG cause Virginia already had a good LT
And the reason bnaker didn't have a 1st round grade is b/c he was hurt last year. If he had come out after his Junior year, he'd of been the second OT off the board after Joe Thomas.

Some of you guys need to think before you type.

You need to comprehend before you reply. If Baker doesn't have a first round grade the reason really doesn't matter, does it, he still was a reach. If you miss part of the season with nagging injuries, then the question arises "is he tough enough?" Baker isn't an elite run or pass blocker, just a solid college player. Albert will be a solid pro.

Why is Baker a reach? TD stated clearly that the draft would be needs-based. We needed a LT and he moved to get the best, in their estimation, available. Albert will be a solid pro? Really? You can fill a stadium with players who moved up draft boards based on impressive pre-draft workouts then went on to obscurity and mediocrity in the pros. He has potential but hardly a sure thing.

Albert has much more potential than Baker. That's why one was a great pick, the other was a reach.

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1989fan (5/8/2008)
itsw funny you mention Ryan. It seems some of these "experts" pikced us to take Matt Ryan, then said it was a bad pick when we did it.

the Falcons truely are the basement of the NFL in many analysts eyes for some reason. At least my other team (Browns) are this years media darlings. I mean they traded away their whole draft for top dollar players, and it is being called brilliant. I have never heard a team get praise for doing this prior to this year.

You have to read between the lines for what they say.  When they talked about Ryan, they rated him as the highest Qb but not a top three pick.  Most rated him as a mid-first rounder.

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