FalcFan12 Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 If we draft Matt Ryan when do you think he play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdweiserrr Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 When do I think he'll play? Week 14. When do I think he'll play well? Never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joremarid Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 i'd rather wait until 2009, but probably near the end of this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return-of-the-Falcon Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 I hope he sits for a year, and if redman does well 2 years. I think he'll be really good though. He needs a year to strengthen up and adjust to the game, but he'll be a pro-bowler IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Risin Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 jidady (4/19/2008)When do I think he'll play? Week 14. When do I think he'll play well? Never.So much for the thread title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Mojo Risin (4/19/2008)So much for the thread title.Don't confuse hate for reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Risin Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 jidady (4/19/2008) Mojo Risin (4/19/2008)So much for the thread title.Don't confuse hate for reality.Opinion is not reality. It is only YOUR perception of reality. Don't get 'em confused."Reality in your prediction for something yet to happen?" Tsk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 You say tomato, I say "sexually attracted to double coverage". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Risin Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 jidady (4/19/2008)You say tomato, I say "sexually attracted to double coverage".More of your predictions eh? Strong insight into your psyche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joremarid Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 jidady (4/19/2008)You say tomato, I say "sexually attracted to double coverage".no pain no gain. i'd rather take a qb that will give his team a chance then to play it safe and lose. sure there are interceptions, but there are also 4th quarter wins.brett favre is also "sexually attracted to double coverage" and look how he turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Mojo Risin (4/19/2008)More of your predictions eh? Strong insight into your psyche.I participated in 7 or 8 different gameday threads for Boston College on this very board during the season. I didn't see you in any of them. To wit, it's a strong insight into your psyche that you just described an evaluation as a prediction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 joremari (4/19/2008)no pain no gain.no football, no pointsi'd rather take a qb that will give his team a chance to winThe core problem with Matt Ryan is that he gives both teams a chance to win. You mention Favre's tendency to throw INTs. My comment to you is simple. Prior to this season, Brett Favre's reputation had taken a beating for all of the forced playmaking he had attempted for the Packers in 2005 and 2006. It was only when he stopped pressing and played within himself that the team was able to become a winner once more. One-man-armies in football are losing armies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Risin Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 jidady (4/19/2008) Mojo Risin (4/19/2008)More of your predictions eh? Strong insight into your psyche.I participated in 7 or 8 different gameday threads for Boston College on this very board during the season. I didn't see you in any of them. To wit, it's a strong insight into your psyche that you just described an evaluation as a prediction.Your prediction is that he wouldn't play well. Then called it reality. Do you know the difference between something that is happening(reality) and something that is yet to happen? You "evaluated" something yet to happen? OKIE DOKIE:w00t:So let's cut past the #####, are you a Redman or Shockley fan? If neither, who do you think this team needs? Then, what's to say they'll do well next year. Evaluate the future genius.:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joremarid Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 jidady (4/19/2008)joremari (4/19/2008)no pain no gain.no football, no pointsi'd rather take a qb that will give his team a chance to winThe core problem with Matt Ryan is that he gives both teams a chance to win. You mention Favre's tendency to throw INTs. My comment to you is simple. Prior to this season, Brett Favre's reputation had taken a beating for all of the forced playmaking he had attempted for the Packers in 2005 and 2006. It was only when he stopped pressing and played within himself that the team was able to become a winner once more. One-man-armies in football are losing armies.you know favre was winning football games before this year, right?besides, matt ryan had the same int% as henne and brohm and peyton manning in college. brohm for instance threw 12 ints in about 450 attempts while ryan had 19 in 650, henne threw 8 in only 320 attempts and manning threw 11 in 470 attempts. all of them are in the 2.5% range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Mojo Risin (4/19/2008)Your prediction is that he wouldn't play well. Then called it reality. You "evaluated" something yet to happen?Yes. I forecasted future results based upon past behavior. I took the time to research the player's performances during live competition this past season and discussed it with my peers on this board. It's what draft evaluation involves. It's also what I do for a living. What's broken in Matt Ryan is not something that is fixed by playing against even better competition and more complex schemes. So let's cut past the #####, are you a Redman or Shockley fan?Actually, that would be adding a layer of numeric symbols since my opinion of Redman or Shockley has little to do with an isolated evaluation of a prospect in this draft. If you are legitimately interested, I found Redman's play nothing short of miraculous for a player completely out of football for a year. I also as a UT fan have always looked upon DJ Shockley as an amazing young man worthy of my respect. Neither of those statements changes the fact that not only do I expect the Falcons to draft a QB this year, but it wouldn't bother me if we selected two. Matt Ryan's selection would be a regrettable one, however, particularly in the first round. If neither, who do you think this team needs? Then, what's to say they'll do well next year. Evaluate the future genius.:cool:QBs I like in this draft for this team in order of preference:1) Brian Brohm2) Chad Henne3) Josh Johnson4) Kevin O'Connell5) Dennis Dixon (would be #3 if healthy)6) Andre Woodson 7) Paul Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 joremari (4/19/2008)besides, matt ryan had the same int% as henne and brohm and peyton manning in college. brohm for instance threw 12 ints in about 450 attempts while ryan had 19 in 650, henne threw 8 in only 320 attempts and manning threw 11 in 470 attempts. all of them are in the 2.5% range.This stat is getting passed around a lot, and I've made the same comment each time. The 19 INTs is misleading in that his only throwing 19 was a best case scenario, a shocking statement in its own right. In the first Va. Tech game, he could have thrown seven INTs had anybody on that defense been born with hands. He wound up with two. What scares the daylights out of me about Matt Ryan is just how often he seems to completely miss the coverage LB on a play. Moving forward against these majestic 3-4 defenses where guys disguise their assignments, I simply cannot envision him succeeding on a consistent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joremarid Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 a few points:is matt ryan the only qb that has his ints "dropped"? im sure that henne, brohm and manning all had INTs dropped as well. secondly, don't you think that players, once they get NFL coaches and face NFL competition, become better players or do you think that they never get to be as good as they are when they are 20 or 21 years old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 joremari (4/19/2008)a few points:is matt ryan the only qb that has his ints "dropped"? im sure that henne, brohm and manning all had INTs dropped as well.Oh, of course this is true. My point is that I honestly believe Matt Ryan could have had a 26-28 INT season if he had played against back sevens with better hands. He threw straight toward defensive players on an alarmingly frequent basis. secondly, don't you think that players, once they get NFL coaches and face NFL competition, become better players or do you think that they never get to be as good as they are when they are 20 or 21 years old?I think that the most crippling mistake that happens year in and year out in the NFL Draft is when a team evaluates what a person could be while ignoring who they are. I'm a Moneyball guy through and through and felt this way about the process long before Michael Lewis' book let me know there were other people out there who agreed with me about the madness of the process. There was a discussion here last year about an Atlanta Braves pitcher vs. someone from another team and the other guy was considered a potential #1 starter while the Brave was not. This was in spite in the fact that the Brave had a better ERA and lower slugging percentage/OPS against for four consecutive seasons. That's what "scouting" is far too often, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dem Birds Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Mojo Risin (4/19/2008)jidady (4/19/2008)When do I think he'll play? Week 14. When do I think he'll play well? Never.So much for the thread title.I don't "hate" Matt Ryan, but I don't want him, but when I see a thread telling me not to read it....guess what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joremarid Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 jidady (4/19/2008)joremari (4/19/2008)a few points:is matt ryan the only qb that has his ints "dropped"? im sure that henne, brohm and manning all had INTs dropped as well.Oh, of course this is true. My point is that I honestly believe Matt Ryan could have had a 26-28 INT season if he had played against back sevens with better hands. He threw straight toward defensive players on an alarmingly frequent basis. secondly, don't you think that players, once they get NFL coaches and face NFL competition, become better players or do you think that they never get to be as good as they are when they are 20 or 21 years old?I think that the most crippling mistake that happens year in and year out in the NFL Draft is when a team evaluates what a person could be while ignoring who they are. I'm a Moneyball guy through and through and felt this way about the process long before Michael Lewis' book let me know there were other people out there who agreed with me about the madness of the process. There was a discussion here last year about an Atlanta Braves pitcher vs. someone from another team and the other guy was considered a potential #1 starter while the Brave was not. This was in spite in the fact that the Brave had a better ERA and lower slugging percentage/OPS against for four consecutive seasons. That's what "scouting" is far too often, I'm afraid.just b/c there is a problem with scouting in general, and that is that it isn't 100% accurate, doesn't mean that the scouts are wrong about matt ryan. so often the arguement gets thrown out "look at alex smith, they were wrong about him so they are wrong about ryan too."good players get better when they get to the nfl. they grow and learn and mature. it's natural. peyton manning is light years better now then he was when he was drafted. same can be said with any successful nfl qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Risin Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Dem Birds Can Fly (4/19/2008) Mojo Risin (4/19/2008)jidady (4/19/2008)When do I think he'll play? Week 14. When do I think he'll play well? Never.So much for the thread title.I don't "hate" Matt Ryan, but I don't want him, but when I see a thread telling me not to read it....guess what?Don't touch the red button? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 joremari (4/19/2008)good players get better when they get to the nfl. they grow and learn and mature. it's natural. peyton manning is light years better now then he was when he was drafted. same can be said with any successful nfl qb.Conversely, the same thing can be said with any failed NFL QB. The problem I had with Joey Harrington when he came out of college was that he didn't have anything resembling killer instinct. Byron Leftwich's delivery and accuracy bothered me. Both men have been held back in their careers due to these flaws. It's not an optimistic/pessimistic perspective argument under discussion. Everyone gets better under NFL coaching. The key is whether their ratio of improvement exceeds that of their peers. Matt Ryan would need to suddenly become day and night better at dissecting coverage in order to succeed in the NFL. Is that possible? Of course. Is it likely? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dem Birds Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Mojo Risin (4/19/2008)Dem Birds Can Fly (4/19/2008) Mojo Risin (4/19/2008)jidady (4/19/2008)When do I think he'll play? Week 14. When do I think he'll play well? Never.So much for the thread title.I don't "hate" Matt Ryan, but I don't want him, but when I see a thread telling me not to read it....guess what?Don't touch the red button?If I'm not supposed to read it, then I'm gonna want to. Besides, it's dumb to say "If you have a disagreement don't come in here" that's why no one on here can have a civilized debate on anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papeezi Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 IF AND ONLY IF WE DRAFT THIS OVVERATED QB, HE NEEDS TO SIT UNTIL THE END OF THE SEASON AND BE THE STARTER IN 09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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