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Debunking the "Marxist" connection to Obama.


Ramen
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Somebody just can't take a hint.

Attached is a Power Point presentation talking about Karl Marx's sociological views.

http://www.faculty.rsu.edu/~felwell/Theori.../Power/Marx.ppt

Note that Marx was both a political philosopher (writings about communism) as well as a social scientist (writings about the sociology of class).

The latter remains extremely influential as a theory of social behavior, especially in European countries, and should not be confused with the former. A lot of the liberation theologies adopt Marx's ideas about social struggles (class for Marx, race for black liberation theology) to their own movements.

There is nothing evil or bad or even wrong about it, and the fact that a group teaches about struggle from oppression based on the ideas of Karl Marx does not make them "communist" nor "socialist" nor anything else.

One could point to a lot of the rhetoric from white southern churches about the "war on Christianity" and recognize group identity and struggling against (perceived) oppression that Marx had highlighted. And I doubt anyone considers white southern conservative churches to be "communist".

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Here are all of the good posts from the previous thread:

robpanama (3/21/2008)
So hes only half Communist?
Ramen (3/21/2008)
robpanama (3/21/2008)
So hes only half Communist?

Yep. Obama is half white, half black, and half communist.

And he'll give 120% when he becomes president.

savwboy savwboy (3/21/2008)
robpanama (3/21/2008)
So hes only half Communist?

Maybe everything does split down the middle with him..

Half white , half black , half communist , half capitalist, half muslim , half christian..

Ramen (3/21/2008)
savwboy savwboy (3/21/2008)
robpanama (3/21/2008)
So hes only half Communist?

Maybe everything does split down the middle with him..

Half white , half black , half communist , half capitalist, half muslim , half christian..

Quite the transcending figure, if you ask me.

savwboy savwboy (3/21/2008)
robpanama (3/21/2008)
So hes only 1/2 Communist?

Did you ever get the feeling youd been somewhere before?

I think we just stepped outside the Matrix..

Ramen (3/21/2008)
robpanama (3/21/2008)
So hes only 1/2 Communist?

Did you ever get the feeling youd been somewhere before?

It's deja vu all over again.

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Steve_Bartkowski (3/21/2008)
Obviously, Ramen has a problem with people criticism his illogical and fallacious claims.

This is the THIRD time now that Ramen has delete this exact post after his illogical and fallacious arguments were debunked. Apparently Ramen wants to save himself the embarrassment by eliminating the evidence and pretending as though the previous threads never existed.

So you're saying that constantly deleting and reposting the same thread in order to delete the posts the thread-maker doesn't like is childish and intellectually asinine? Just so we're clear about this...

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Ramen (3/21/2008)
savwboy savwboy (3/21/2008)
Ramen (3/21/2008)
robpanama (3/21/2008)
this is your brain on Obama.

And this is your brain on Hillary:

HeadUpButt.jpg

Yea I heard that red X is rough stuff..

Works fine on my screen.

Pic only works occasionally, typical democratic link.

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Struggle, rather than peaceful growth, was the engine of progress; strife was the father of all things, and social conflict was the core of the historical process.

Nothing comes into creation from force. Man's mind is the engine of progress. Did the holocaust spawn advancement? What about the darfur genocide? How much are they progressing?

For Marx, the entire social system is based on the manner in which men and women relate to one another in their continuous struggle to wrest their livelihood form nature.

An inherent problem is the premise that humans should "wrest their livelihood" from nature. Why should we do this? Nature is the only thing we know - existence is existence. Nature is the starting point of knowledge. Denying the reality of nature is irrational. We can't change anything that is metaphysically given. When marx states this is not only possible, but a goal for existing, he admitts his own errors.

The production of new needs evolve when means are found to allow the satisfaction of older ones. Humans engage in antagonistic cooperation as soon as they leave the communal stage of development in order to satisfy their primary and secondary needs.

There is no conflict of interest between rational men.

Nor can such evolutionary changes be due to the emergence of novel ideas. Ideas, according to Marx, are not prime movers but are the reflections, direct or sublimated, of the material interests that impel men in their dealings with others. Therefore, the widespread acceptance of ideas depend on something that is not an idea depend upon material interests.
"It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but on the contrary, it is their social existence that determines their consciousness.

This is the social theory? It is as grotesque and disgusting as communism and socialism themselves. Marx's social theory is focused on the premise of some twisted economic determinism to drive the hungering bloodlust for human lives that communism requires. To make the idea that men should sacrifice themselves for society or brotherhood (as altruism declares), you must first kill man's individual value. He does this by stating that the product of a man's mind wasn't the work of that single man, but the communal work of society and its provided economic status in which that man lives. Therefore it is right to take that product from a man's mind for the good of everyone. You call this a social theory? A reasoning man would rightfully call this slavery.

If this is what Obama is in support of - God help us all.

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Steve_Bartkowski (3/21/2008)
I think Marxism and Obama are tied to these videos:

I think there are less similarities between the national anthem and the pledge of pledge allegiance than there are between GOP endorsed corporate welfare and social welfare.

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The Egoist (3/22/2008)

Struggle, rather than peaceful growth, was the engine of progress; strife was the father of all things, and social conflict was the core of the historical process.

Nothing comes into creation from force. Man's mind is the engine of progress. Did the holocaust spawn advancement? What about the darfur genocide? How much are they progressing?

For Marx, the entire social system is based on the manner in which men and women relate to one another in their continuous struggle to wrest their livelihood form nature.

An inherent problem is the premise that humans should "wrest their livelihood" from nature. Why should we do this? Nature is the only thing we know - existence is existence. Nature is the starting point of knowledge. Denying the reality of nature is irrational. We can't change anything that is metaphysically given. When marx states this is not only possible, but a goal for existing, he admitts his own errors.

The production of new needs evolve when means are found to allow the satisfaction of older ones. Humans engage in antagonistic cooperation as soon as they leave the communal stage of development in order to satisfy their primary and secondary needs.

There is no conflict of interest between rational men.

Nor can such evolutionary changes be due to the emergence of novel ideas. Ideas, according to Marx, are not prime movers but are the reflections, direct or sublimated, of the material interests that impel men in their dealings with others. Therefore, the widespread acceptance of ideas depend on something that is not an idea depend upon material interests.

"It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but on the contrary, it is their social existence that determines their consciousness.

This is the social theory? It is as grotesque and disgusting as communism and socialism themselves. Marx's social theory is focused on the premise of some twisted economic determinism to drive the hungering bloodlust for human lives that communism requires. To make the idea that men should sacrifice themselves for society or brotherhood (as altruism declares), you must first kill man's individual value. He does this by stating that the product of a man's mind wasn't the work of that single man, but the communal work of society and its provided economic status in which that man lives. Therefore it is right to take that product from a man's mind for the good of everyone. You call this a social theory? A reasoning man would rightfully call this slavery.

If this is what Obama is in support of - God help us all.

I may add that in the middle of a thread that makes absolutley no sense , this is a great post..

I f I may borrow from Falconchef's sig line

A well thought out post,you sir do not belong here..:w00t:

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Ramen (3/22/2008)
robpanama (3/22/2008)
Pic only works occasionally, typical democratic link.

The pics would work more if you'd raise the minimum wage and let them unionize!

Freakin' capitalist pig!

BT-capitalistpig-gallery-3328.jpg

Need help with Communist sympathizer video.

Union labor , thats sort of a oxyMORON isnt it?

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