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Brohm has talent, but competition he faced in college, isn't great barometer..


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Its amazing, we've thrown out five or six names that have all played recently, and somehow they are ALL rare exceptions. At this rate rare exceptions are going to become pretty common.

Steve Young, BYU.

Its amazing, quit while you are behind, Poster Formerly Known as Vick75.

Again.

Reading is fundamental, Chifalc... in my opening I said Since 2001.. So why are you including Steve Young, McNair.. The NFL has changed and I had specifically made a point that very few Qbs drafted in the last seven years have had much success or at least taken their teams to the conference championship games...

Over-rated 'traditional' Qbs have struggled such as Leinart, Palmer, Losman, Harrington, Carr, Cutler, Simms (Tampa), Bulger... The list goes on an on...

YKW took the Falcons to the playoffs in 2002 and in only his second full season starting the team went to the NFCCG... it took Peyton Manning six years to get his first playoff win (2003) and 30 (2007) win he finally got a SuperBowl..

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I guess you are a SEC hack. FIrst, if you think Brohm is going anything below 2nd round, you must be smoking that good s*it.

How can FLacco, who played for Delaware be a 1st round pick, but Brohm who put up great numbers from day one as a starter and played in a Pro-style offense not be a top QB.

If you knew anything about football, you would know that even though Brohm did not take on the Auburns or Floridas on a weekly basis, but he did beat West Va., Rutgers, Miami, UK over his four years. Rutgers was a top ten defense and West Va. run all over Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. Miami has tons of good athletes and he beat Wake Forest in the Orange Bowl who beat Va. Tech who you listed in your post.

Also, since you are a SEC hack, Andre Woodson compared to Brohm in three games, was outplayed by Brohm in each game except this last one the past year where they were comparable. Woodson is considered a third round-fourth round pick. Brohm will not drop below him.

I am not sure if BRohm is a franchise QB, but don't tell me you need to be in the SEC to be a great QB, I would take Brohm any day over Ainge, Woodson, Rex Grossman, Tim Tebo or any other SEC QB. That is right, Tebo! Brohm can read defenses and is a pure pocket passer. He might fold under pressure, but he is in the top three QBs in the draft.

Brohm

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haynes 45 (3/10/2008)
These are facts:

Since 2001, only five QBs drafted have taken their teams to their conference championship game...

1. Ben Rothleisberger (2005)

2. Drew Brees (2006)

3. Eli Manning (2007)

4. Phillip Rivers (2007)

5. YKW (Atlanta, 2004)

This is my observation:

It's hard and it takes more than being able to throw the ball at a QB Skills Competition and scoring high on a Wonderlic test.

When things go bad, can Brohm adjust or will he start to whine and make excuses like Joey Harrington or Carson Palmer in Cincinnati or Matt Leinart in Arizona? Can he rally his teammates? Can he do more with less and make his teammates better? That's what a real franchise QB is.. it is more than impressive college passing stats/passer rating.

Ask Alex Smith. Ask Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. Or ask JP Losman or last year's favorite QB, the over-rated Jay Cutler.. Ask David Carr. The list goes on and on... The franchise QB has to be able to lead their team to playoffs EARLY in their career...It's either you got or you don't got it.. Joey Harrington with his 25-50 doesn't have it and never will..HArrington had a great statistical career at Oregon, but he wasn't able to make the adjustments to even come close to having a .500 record as a NFL starter..

NFL defenses are going to adjust and take your strengths away most weeks and Brohm and other pass happy QBs won't be able to sit in the pocket for six or seven seconds. Somehow Brohm will have to keep drives alive and put points on the board.

Can Brohm take being hit? Chris Chandler, another smart QB who had only two winning season in his 14 year career got the moniker chandelier..

I question whether Brohm can do that on a week to week basis--especially in consecutive weeks. I wonder how he would have fared playing against Florida, Virginia Tech and Auburn in consecutive weeks..I would bet money he would have a significantly lower passer rating and his completion percentage would fluctuate between the 40 and 50's...

Brohm rarely played great defenses-- especially on consecutive weekends..

The NFL is pressure and being to handle that pressure..

Big Ben, Eli and YKW were able to get their teams to the playoffs in their first full year starting...Eli has a very calm demeanor, but he was almost run out New York in 2007 (4 years after being drafted), but he ran into some luck with Tiki Barber's retirement and Jeremy Shockey's absence due to injury...

Brohm is in reality a fifth-round draft pick that will max his potential as a career backup!

ok aaron rodgers has been a buck up for bret farve dude....matt lynart is injured and has played maybe 10 games in his carrer...when u use names...make sure that you at least say that they havnt had enuf time...
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I give you credit for trying to make an educated argument, something that is rare on these boards, but you fail to actually point out any real reasons why Brohm can't/won't succeed in the NFL. Your argument would have been much more valid if you backed up your reasonings with evidence, perhaps certain game situations in the past where Brohm displayed traits that would lead you to question his legitimacy as a starter in the NFL. Since you used good grammar and made a little bit of sense, I'll give you two stars instead of one.

Xrage,

The NFL draft is a crapshoot and it is all about evaluation and projection..

Dual threat QBs generally have more early success than traditional , dropback QBs.. and this has been an emerging trend since the mid- 1990's.. Contempt from old school media and some on this board who still prays Bart was still playing try to dismiss or diminsih the abilities and leadership skills of the dual threat Qbs, but the FACTS show they have just as or more success that their traditional QB counterparts..

Leinart was seen as a sure thing over Vince Young, but Young is the one who was 8 and 8 in his first season and 10 and 6 with a playoff berth in his second season, while the over-rated injury prone Leinart sits on the bench or Carson Palmer who is whining in Cincinatti and sitting at home for the playoffs. The FACTS come out in the end result.. Jay Cutler was seen as the steal of the draft, but the past two years have yielded nothing for the Broncos.

McNair, Shaun King with Tampa in 1999 had his team within one completed pass of the Super Bowl, McNabb and his string of NFCCG appearances, Culpepper took Minnesota to the playoffs early in his career, Vick and now Vince Young..

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your only 5 qb's have done it is a crappy point for the case of broohm as fifth round talent. as soon as though guys were able to develop they enjoyed sucess as evidenced by a qb drafted early taking their team to the conference game in 04,05,06,and 07. also brohm is a highly skilled qb who played in a pro-style offense even in freshman year at college, i have seen him play live and there is always a sense that louisville would score and this was because of brohm not because of the o-line or the oppenents strength. if you want to knock somebody for not playing quality teams talk about flacco not brohm. he makes less mistakes and makes better reads than ryan and did that for 4 years. the only knock on brohm is he doesnt run a 4.4 40 yd dash and doesnt throw the ball 100mph. 

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I guess you are a SEC hack. FIrst, if you think Brohm is going anything below 2nd round, you must be smoking that good s*it.

How can FLacco, who played for Delaware be a 1st round pick, but Brohm who put up great numbers from day one as a starter and played in a Pro-style offense not be a top QB.

If you knew anything about football, you would know that even though Brohm did not take on the Auburns or Floridas on a weekly basis, but he did beat West Va., Rutgers, Miami, UK over his four years. Rutgers was a top ten defense and West Va. run all over Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. Miami has tons of good athletes and he beat Wake Forest in the Orange Bowl who beat Va. Tech who you listed in your post.

Also, since you are a SEC hack, Andre Woodson compared to Brohm in three games, was outplayed by Brohm in each game except this last one the past year where they were comparable. Woodson is considered a third round-fourth round pick. Brohm will not drop below him.

I am not sure if BRohm is a franchise QB, but don't tell me you need to be in the SEC to be a great QB, I would take Brohm any day over Ainge, Woodson, Rex Grossman, Tim Tebo or any other SEC QB. That is right, Tebo! Brohm can read defenses and is a pure pocket passer. He might fold under pressure, but he is in the top three QBs in the draft.

krnsatl,

The best defenses that closely resembles the type of defenses you see on Sundays come from the SEC and ACC.. not the Big East.. or in the case of Joe Flacco who fled Pittsburgh for Delaware because he couldn't stand competition and for him that's a red flag..when things don't go right he sucks his thumb and wants to take his ball home.. Flacco got the size and arm, but the temperament and ability to adjust to negative situations is where franchise Qbs are ultimately judges and of course wins and losses..Flacco is looking like the next Cutler or Harrington..

I didn't say Brohm wouldn't be picked high, but it would be a MISTAKE if he was picked that high..

Chris Chandler could read defenses, but under pressure he turned into Mr. Happy Feet. Chris Miller from the late 1980's and early 1990's was the same way and Carson Palmer after his ankle/leg injury is a little gunshy when pressure gets too close..

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haynes 45 (3/10/2008)
Its amazing, we've thrown out five or six names that have all played recently, and somehow they are ALL rare exceptions. At this rate rare exceptions are going to become pretty common.

Steve Young, BYU.

Its amazing, quit while you are behind, Poster Formerly Known as Vick75.

Again.

Reading is fundamental, Chifalc... in my opening I said Since 2001.. So why are you including Steve Young, McNair.. The NFL has changed and I had specifically made a point that very few Qbs drafted in the last seven years have had much success or at least taken their teams to the conference championship games...

Over-rated 'traditional' Qbs have struggled such as Leinart, Palmer, Losman, Harrington, Carr, Cutler, Simms (Tampa), Bulger... The list goes on an on...

YKW took the Falcons to the playoffs in 2002 and in only his second full season starting the team went to the NFCCG... it took Peyton Manning six years to get his first playoff win (2003) and 30 (2007) win he finally got a SuperBowl..

A very convenient distinction: CHoose a date that cuts out all of the QB's that make your assertion look ridiculous.

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haynes 45, your supposed 'dual-threat' QB of YKW had early success only because defenses weren't sure how to defend him at first.  Didn't take but a few years to figure out that all they had to do was go after him because they knew he couldn't hit a WR if his life depended on it...  Look at the team's record's from when he started until his last season and you will see the proof in the pudding.  It's no wonder birds were getting exchanged with #7 and the fans! Boo-birds for Vick and finger birds to the fans. 

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Using your logic Vick75, I can blame Vick for our poor 8-8 and 7-9 seasons. Let's blame Culpepper for Oakland's 4-12 season.

Last 8 Superbowl winning teams...

07 - Giants - Eli Manning - Pocket Passer

06 - Colts - Peyton Manning - Pure Pocket Passer

05 - Steelers - Big Ben - Ballanced QB(more of a passer)

04 - Patriots - Tom Brady - Pure Pocket Passer

03 - Tampa Bay - Brad Johnson - Pure Pocket Passer

02 - Patriots

01 - Patriots

00 - Ravens - Trent Dilfer - Pure Pocket Passer

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falconfansince66 (3/10/2008)
haynes 45, your supposed 'dual-threat' QB of YKW had early success only because defenses weren't sure how to defend him at first. Didn't take but a few years to figure out that all they had to do was go after him because they knew he couldn't hit a WR if his life depended on it... Look at the team's record's from when he started until his last season and you will see the proof in the pudding. It's no wonder birds were getting exchangedwith#7 and the fans!Boo-birdsfor Vick and finger birds to the fans.

Please stop trying to be dismissive of the accomplishments of Vick. He was able to accomplish things that Peyton Manning weren't able to do in his first few years as a QB.

The difference is that Vick sabotaged by the abrupt firing of Reeves by Blank, McKay's inability to surround with Vick comparable talent, Gregg Knapp's restrictive coordinating, the signing and re-signing of Dunn, and the inability of having legitimate go-to receivers. Despite all those obstacles, he was 38-28-1 as a NFL starter..

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The Falcon Ace (3/11/2008)
Using your logic Vick75, I can blame Vick for our poor 8-8 and 7-9 seasons. Let's blame Culpepper for Oakland's 4-12 season.

Last8 Superbowl winning teams...

07 - Giants - Eli Manning - Pocket Passer

06 - Colts - Peyton Manning -Pure Pocket Passer

05 - Steelers - Big Ben - Ballanced QB(more of a passer)

04 - Patriots - Tom Brady - Pure Pocket Passer

03 - Tampa Bay - Brad Johnson - Pure Pocket Passer

02 - Patriots

01 - Patriots

00 - Ravens - Trent Dilfer - Pure Pocket Passer

The Patriots era of cheating is over and Belicheat and even Tom Brady benefited from this and it does put into question their accomplishments.

The era of the pure pocket passer is becoming slowly extinct, Mr. Ace. whether you want to admit it or not.

Just like Jackie Robinson changed the game, the dual threat QB will force stubborn old school GMs and skeptical, dismissive Anti-dual threat QB fans like yourself to take notice.

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haynes 45 (3/11/2008)

The Patriots era of cheating is over and Belicheat and even Tom Brady benefited from this and it does put into question their accomplishments.

The era of the pure pocket passer is becoming slowly extinct, Mr. Ace. whether you want to admit it or not.

Just like Jackie Robinson changed the game, the dual threat QB will force stubborn old school GMs and skeptical, dismissive Anti-dual threat QB fans like yourself to take notice.

I must be missing these dual threat QB's in the league Vince,........ummm...............ummm....................

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The Falcon Ace (3/11/2008)
Using your logic Vick75, I can blame Vick for our poor 8-8 and 7-9 seasons. Let's blame Culpepper for Oakland's 4-12 season.

Last 8 Superbowl winning teams...

07 - Giants - Eli Manning - Pocket Passer

06 - Colts - Peyton Manning - Pure Pocket Passer

05 - Steelers - Big Ben - Ballanced QB(more of a passer)

04 - Patriots - Tom Brady - Pure Pocket Passer

03 - Tampa Bay - Brad Johnson - Pure Pocket Passer

02 - Patriots

01 - Patriots

00 - Ravens - Trent Dilfer - Pure Pocket Passer

 

Well to be fair, in '99 that super fast, unbelievable dual threat of Kurt Warner won the Super Bowl

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haynes 45 (3/10/2008)
So, basically, you're saying that Brohm didn't play stiff enough competition and then bring up Ben Roethlisberger (who didn't play competition anywhere near what Brohm has played). You then say that Roethlisberger is a rare exception.

So, what prevents Brohm from being an exception, too? Until he plays in the NFL, we won't know. So don't go off on the guy making absolutist statements when you don't know anything more than anyone else. If you've got an opinion, fine, but don't use specious logic to try and "prove" a point that you can't prove.

Yeesh.

Direwolf

If the Falcons draft either Ryan or Brohm, it will set the franchise back at least three years. This franchise simply can NOT afford that. The Falcons are better off trying to sign the more proven veteran Culpepper and or have Shock start than waste time with green, rookie college QBs who are more likely to fall flat on their faces with the Falcons.

The franchise took a step forward when Mr. Warrick Dunn was released, but drafting Ryan or Brohm that early would be a waste. Last year, the team drafted Jamaal Anderson..please no more garbage picks!

If the Falcons feel the need to draft a QB later--maybe Josh Johnson from San Diego...

1a. Shock or 1b. Culpepper

2. Redman

3. Josh Johnson

There you go again speaking in absolutes. If you've got the crystal ball, why not use it to place some bets and win the lottery? I can't think of any other good reason to look into the future. Since, you know, obviously you have that ability.

I'll say it again: Yeesh!

Direwolf

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Okay, people, here's the thing; we don't know.  Pro scouting departments don't know.  Pro coaches don't know.  They all try to decipher the vast amount of info, take into consideration the strength of schedule or division played in, and try to determine who will be better.  In most cases their picks are pretty good.  In some cases (Ryan Leaf) they are not.  If we knew there was another LT out there, or Jerry Rice, or Joe Montana we would be without question the king of the world.  But we don't.  That is the fun part of the draft.  When you pick up a guy in the 6th round (Tom Brady) and they become a MVP.  So, anything that is expressed here is hypothetical.  I wish I could measure a guy's heart, willpower and engine.  I wish I could tell what drives him.  Then you would not have to worry about Vick or Pacman. 

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grendel (3/10/2008)

Both have bigger injury concerns than Brohm, especially Ellis.

That's fine, I never believed the Falcons should be picking them either.

Brohm isn't worth the #3 pick, and he probably won't be around when the Falcons pick again in the 2nd. Is he worth giving up picks to move up, no. 

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The Falcon Ace (3/11/2008)

Typical Vick75 mantra. Avoid answering questions that don't fit his logic and speak as if he knows all beyond all certainty, which means he does not have to explain and provide evidence to his conclusions.

I don't avoid answering questions. You are the one who is the more artful dodger.

Dual threat QBs can compete in the NFL and have been successful and generally have more early success than their traditional, dropback counterparts.

Kurt Warner (former Arena League player), Brad Johnson (journeyman QB), Trent Dilfer (55% career completion percentage) all have flaws and were unable to come from college to the pros and have an immediate impact unlike Culpepper, Vick, McNabb, and even Shaun King in 1999. Most dropback QBs coming into TODAY'S NFL struggle! Yes, they won SuperBowls much further in their careers because they failed miserably earlier.. So drafting Matt Ryan/Brian Brohm will not pan out and if they manage to have some success it would likely be as a journeyman-- five, six or seven years down the road..

Experience does matter and having a supporting coaching staff helps as well. THIS is the reason why the dropback passer has tentatively been winning SuperBowl up to this point (and also having dominate defenses i.e. Baltimore 2000, Tampa 2003, Giants 2007).. Dual threat Qbs are seen as novelty and there is still resistance among some in the fanbase and the FRONT OFFICE (i.e. McKay) who has contempt for these types of players who can run and throw.. Remember Blank/McKay didn't draft Vick (Jaworski still hates Cunningham to this day in Philly) and with Jaws in the media he attempts to discredit the dual threat QB every chance he gets!

If dual threat QBs are given the chance in the face of media scrutiny, then that team has a good chance as anyone to win a Super Bowl and be a consistent winner.

Falcon Ace, a question for you (don't get nervous).. For the record, rank the depth chart between Harrington (assuming this con man gets re-signed) Redman and Shockley and give valid reasons why they should not and should be starting.

Additionally, what makes Matt Ryan/Brian Brohm a more suitable choice than let's say..hmmm.. Josh Johnson? Please explain.

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