Joeseph "Red" Bryant/Run Stopper on the lines of a young Grady Jackson

[maddmatt]

Morning Gents

I picked up this info during the combine last month. In response to all the posts about Glenn Dorsey and Sedrick Ellis being our saviours on the defensive front I thought TD, Mike Smith et. al should strongly consider this kid out of Texas A&M. He is 6'5" 328lbs.

Plus he would probably cost HALF what Ellis/Dorsey would. I vote Red Bryant with either second rd pick.

Analysis

Positives: Has a well-proportioned, thick and muscular frame that has room for further growth development without having the additional weight impact his impressive quickness...Has long arms, adequate hand size, thick thighs and calves, showing solid muscle tone throughout, especially in his broad shoulders...With his wide hips and thick lower body, it is very tough for blockers to gain movement off the snap vs. him...Shows keen awareness to the play developing...More of a run-containment type, but has the savvy and agility to slip blocks and wreak havoc in the backfield...Quick to find the football in pursuit and is not the type that will bite on play action or misdirection...Was called the team's "most important player" by the coaching staff, as they use his hard work as an example for the younger players to follow...Clocked at 4.95 in the 40-yard dash, he carries his equipment well and, by keeping his pads down and hands within his frame, he generates good movement off the snap...Can surprise a lethargic blocker and slip past double teams with his burst, showing the strength needed to get a good push off his man...Excels at neutralizing multiple blockers and has that hip shake you want when trying to execute counter moves (this allows a teammate to be free to make the play)....Quick to fill the rush lane and shows good creativity and spin moves shooting the gaps...Very combative with his hands and has the strength to shock and control an opponent when he locks on...Shows good power in attempts to disengage and is quite nimble when attacking the backfield...Type that demands constant double-team attention from his opponent, as he is very hard to move off the line...When he plants his feet and settles in for a battle, he uses his low center of gravity to gain leverage and he keeps his feet free, demonstrating very effective two-gap potential...His quick arm-over action and upper-body strength let him consistently beat his blocker off the snap...Keeps his hands active, even in tight quarter, staying within his frame to do a nice job of protecting his body from cut blocks...Has very good strength behind his hits and is an efficient wrap-up tackler with the long arms to engulf the perimeter runners....Demonstrates the lateral agility to push the outside running game back inside and the field vision to quickly locate the cutback lanes...Because of his wide frame and brute strength, when he makes a collision tackle, he instantly stops the ballcarrier's momentum -- will generally attack the runner's outside leg to impede forward progress...In 125 running plays directed at him, opponents managed to gain just 89 yards (0.71 yards per carry)...Immovable object at the point of attack and is quick to hunker down and fill the rush lanes...Has the short-area burst to close in a hurry and comes out of his stance with his hands ready to lock on, control and shed his blockers...Quick to stack at the point of attack and uses his low center of gravity and strength to gain leverage and hold his ground firmly...Best when playing over the center's head or giving a good arm-over action to gain advantage over the outside shoulder of the guards in attempts to apply pressure...Tough to defend in the short area when moving down the line and is very conscious of low blocks and how to avoid them...Knows how to time his leaps to get his fair share of pass deflections at the line of scrimmage...Alert for angle blocks and traps, using his hands effectively to counter.

Negatives: Diagnosed with dyslexia, but has overcome the issue and does well both academically and in retaining plays...Will short-arm at times, but stays after the blocker when doing so, using his body lean to get a push...Has good pursuit ability in the short area, but despite his timed speed, he will labor at times when running long distances...In long pursuit, he will get a bit high in his stance and narrow his base. When this happens, he fails to keep his feet free and while he can get over trash, he will get a little out of control...There is no leakage when working inside, but he will get a little out of control and miss tackles when operating in space...Has the speed to close, but must develop more pass-rush moves to become a threat...Uses mostly swim and rip moves, but with his hand strength, he should be more efficient when trying to club...Shows good agility squeezing the pocket, but when he gets narrow in his base coming off the edge, blockers can have some success forcing him out.

Compares To: CASEY HAMPTON-Pittsburgh...Bryant is bigger, faster and stronger than Hampton, but both play with great anticipation and short-area explosion to dominate vs. the run. Bryant is very good at neutralizing double teams and has few peers when it comers to shutting down the inside running game. He is a tireless worker in the trenches who has not been used much as a pass rusher, but with his speed, lateral agility and strength, he could develop nicely there if a patient coaching staff teaches him proper technique. Whether in a 3-4 as a nose guard or in a 4-3 alignment as a defensive tackle, few blockers at the professional level will have success containing him.

What do you guys think ?

[DanTheFootballFan]

Amen on this post. Awesome detail, thanks for the insight. As I've been saying, Ellis and Dorsey don't fit MS's scheme defensively, and Bryant and Dre Moore would more amply fit that. I think Bryant will slip to our high 3rd round pick, but Dre Moore (DT from Maryland) should be looked at for the UT rotation (that might be absent T. Lewis for a while) with our 2nd round pick.

[MidWest Falcon]

devans (3/7/2008)

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Amen on this post. Awesome detail, thanks for the insight. As I've been saying, Ellis and Dorsey don't fit MS's scheme defensively, and Bryant and Dre Moore would more amply fit that. I think Bryant will slip to our high 3rd round pick, but Dre Moore (DT from Maryland) should be looked at for the UT rotation (that might be absent T. Lewis for a while) with our 2nd round pick.

:blink: How do Dorsey/Ellis not fit into our scheme?

[halsey]

MidWest Falcon (3/7/2008)

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devans (3/7/2008)

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Amen on this post. Awesome detail, thanks for the insight. As I've been saying, Ellis and Dorsey don't fit MS's scheme defensively, and Bryant and Dre Moore would more amply fit that. I think Bryant will slip to our high 3rd round pick, but Dre Moore (DT from Maryland) should be looked at for the UT rotation (that might be absent T. Lewis for a while) with our 2nd round pick.

:blink: How do Dorsey/Ellis not fit into our scheme?

It's just something people made up on these boards. It's because they had taller D-tackles in Jacksonville, as if Dorsey being a few inches shorter means Smith won't be able to use him.

You can say better value/less risk about any second rounder over any first rounder. That doesn't neccessarily make it true.

[MidWest Falcon]

halsey (3/7/2008)

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MidWest Falcon (3/7/2008)

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devans (3/7/2008)

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Amen on this post. Awesome detail, thanks for the insight. As I've been saying, Ellis and Dorsey don't fit MS's scheme defensively, and Bryant and Dre Moore would more amply fit that. I think Bryant will slip to our high 3rd round pick, but Dre Moore (DT from Maryland) should be looked at for the UT rotation (that might be absent T. Lewis for a while) with our 2nd round pick.

:blink: How do Dorsey/Ellis not fit into our scheme?

It's just something people made up on these boards. It's because they had taller D-tackles in Jacksonville, as if Dorsey being a few inches shorter means Smith won't be able to use him.

You can say better value/less risk about any second rounder over any first rounder. That doesn't neccessarily make it true.

I know Halsey, I just wanted Devans to explain why he thought this. He obviously either hasn't read my post or has no idea what he's talking about. I'm going w/ the option 2

[Goat]

Something about a man his size only doing 20 reps on the bench scares me. Not that strength is everything but it does play into things. I wouldn't mind a big space eater like him on our DL but only if we can't get Ellis or Dorsey, but even then I like Rubin Ahtyba a bit more.

[rmarchma]

Red Bryant appears to be more of a nose tackle than an under tackle. Dorsey and Ellis might be more of under tackle types, rather than nose tackles. Atlanta has Babs and the new FA signing Moorehead as under tackles. With Atlanta losing Trey Lewis, a nose tackle is a definite need area. From nfldraftcountdown as follows:

Red Bryant

Height: 6-41/8 | Weight: 318 | 40-Time: 5.04

Official Bio

Strengths:

Has outstanding size and a huge frame with long arms...Very strong...Stout at the point of attack...He can occupy multiple blockers...Gets a good push up the middle and is able to collapse the pocket...A surprisingly good athlete...Does an excellent job of getting his hands up...Team leader and captain..Has a bunch of experience.

Weaknesses:

Is not much of a pass rusher...Lacks elite speed and quickness...Wears down too easily...Inconsistent and disappears from the action too often....Has some trouble shedding blockers...Needs to use his hands better...Range is limited..Repertoire of moves is almost nonexistent..Motor runs hot and cold..May have durability issues.

Notes:

First name is Joseph...Was a four-year starter...Tore the ACL in his right knee late in the 2006 season...Physical marvel with a rare blend of size and athleticism...He has the physical tools but may lack the disposition needed to be great..A possible 3-4 nose tackle...He'll need to land in the right situation to maximize his potential.

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Career Statistics

Year GP TKL TFL SACK

2003 DNP - - -

2004 12 34 2.0 1.0

2005 11 28 4.0 2.0

2006 9 19 2.0 1.0

2007 13 46 6.0 1.0

Totals 45 127 14.0 5.0

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr.../redbryant.html

[rmarchma]

rmarchma (3/7/2008)

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Red Bryant appears to be more of a nose tackle than an under tackle. Dorsey and Ellis might be more of under tackle types, rather than nose tackles. Atlanta has Babs and the new FA signing Moorehead as under tackles. With Atlanta losing Trey Lewis, a nose tackle is a definite need area. From nfldraftcountdown as follows:

Red Bryant

Height: 6-41/8 | Weight: 318 | 40-Time: 5.04

Official Bio

Strengths:

Has outstanding size and a huge frame with long arms...Very strong...Stout at the point of attack...He can occupy multiple blockers...Gets a good push up the middle and is able to collapse the pocket...A surprisingly good athlete...Does an excellent job of getting his hands up...Team leader and captain..Has a bunch of experience.

Weaknesses:

Is not much of a pass rusher...Lacks elite speed and quickness...Wears down too easily...Inconsistent and disappears from the action too often....Has some trouble shedding blockers...Needs to use his hands better...Range is limited..Repertoire of moves is almost nonexistent..Motor runs hot and cold..May have durability issues.

Notes:

First name is Joseph...Was a four-year starter...Tore the ACL in his right knee late in the 2006 season...Physical marvel with a rare blend of size and athleticism...He has the physical tools but may lack the disposition needed to be great..A possible 3-4 nose tackle...He'll need to land in the right situation to maximize his potential.

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Career Statistics

Year GP TKL TFL SACK

2003 DNP - - -

2004 12 34 2.0 1.0

2005 11 28 4.0 2.0

2006 9 19 2.0 1.0

2007 13 46 6.0 1.0

Totals 45 127 14.0 5.0

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr.../redbryant.html

Well Atlanta just signed two new defensive linemen, in addition to Moorehead. One of the signings definitely appears to be a nose tackle.

FLOWERY BRANCH, GA The Atlanta Falcons today signed three players, including defensive tackles Kindal Moorehead and Rashad Moore, and defensive end Simon Fraser.

Moorehead, 6-2, 285 pounds, joins the Falcons after spending the previous five seasons in a Carolina Panthers uniform. In 75 career games, he has totaled 138 tackles (85 solo), nine sacks, three forced fumbles, four passes defensed and one interception, which he returned for a touchdown.

The Alabama alum has competed in all 16 games for the past two seasons and totaled the second multiple-sack game of his career in 2006 against the Falcons in the season finale. In 2004, Moorehead totaled a career-high 50 tackles while his 17-yard interception return for a touchdown against quarterback Brian Griese and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers sealed a Panthers 37-20 victory.

Moore, 6-3, 325 pounds, has collared 88 career tackles (61 solo), three sacks, two passes defensed, four fumble recoveries and one forced fumble in four NFL seasons. He was originally drafted by Seattle in the sixth round of the 2003 NFL Draft and spent two seasons with the Seahawks. In 2004, he tallied 46 stops (32 solo), two sacks and three fumble recoveries, which were all career highs.

In 2006, Moore was claimed off of waivers by the New York Jets before joining the New England Patriots last season.

Fraser, 6-6, 300 pounds, spent the last three seasons with the Cleveland Browns and compiled 54 tackles (28 solo), 4.5 sacks, four passes defensed, one forced fumble and one fumble recovery in 48 games.

In 2006, the Ohio State graduate totaled 4.5 sacks which ranked second on the defensive unit while contributing with 36 stops, three passes defensed and a blocked extra point against Cincinnati.

[Orange_Crush]

If Glenn Dorsey and Sedrick Ellis don't fit into your scheme, you're running the wrong one.

[jidady]

I also disagree that Dorsey isn't a nose tackle. I think that's his true position in the NFL.

If you want a run-stuffing DT, why spend a second rounder on Bryant? Ahtyba Rubin is a fourth rounder who offers similar traits. It's the same logic as not taking Dorsey at #3, anyway.

[1989Fan]

BillyWitchDoctor (3/7/2008)

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Something about a man his size only doing 20 reps on the bench scares me. Not that strength is everything but it does play into things. I wouldn't mind a big space eater like him on our DL but only if we can't get Ellis or Dorsey, but even then I like Rubin Ahtyba a bit more.

if you purely want a runstuffing space eater, there isnt a better value in the draft than Ahtyba IMO. He was a late round prospect, now considered mid round. By draft day it wouldnt suprise me to see him go in the 2nd to a 3-4 team. Not many pure NTs in this draft.

[rmarchma]

jidady (3/7/2008)

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I also disagree that Dorsey isn't a nose tackle. I think that's his true position in the NFL.

If you want a run-stuffing DT, why spend a second rounder on Bryant? Ahtyba Rubin is a fourth rounder who offers similar traits. It's the same logic as not taking Dorsey at #3, anyway.

Dorsey's just 300 pounds, which is not the ideal weight for a true niose tackle. He is more of a penetrator/disrupter, which is characteristic of an under tackle, rather than a space eating nose tackle who takes on multiple blockers. Personally I think Bryant will go in the third round, not the second. You can't always go by scouting reports, but Rubin's so-called weaknesses give me hesitation.

Ahtyba Rubin

Height: 6-23/4 | Weight: 315 | 40-Time: 5.22

Official Bio

Strengths:

Real strong and powerful...Has excellent bulk..Is stout at the point of attack...Can occupy multiple blockers...Has a terrific motor...Decent mobility and range...Does a fantastic job against the run...Really knows how to use his hands...Still improving.

Weaknesses:

Offers very little as a pass rusher...Not very quick or explosive...Needs to improve his technique and play with better leverage...Lacks stamina...Short...Was not very productive and didn't make a lot of plays...Only two years of Division I experience.

Notes:

First name is pronounced "ah-TAH-ba"...Spent two years at a JUCO (Trinity Valley C.C.) where he played both defensive and offensive line...An underrated prospect who doesn't get a lot of attention but will most likely be chosen much higher than people think...One-dimensional run-stuffer...May be a prototypical 3-4 nose tackle.

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Career Statistics

Year GP TKL TFL SACK

2004 JUCO - - -

2005 JUCO - - -

2006 12 34 4.0 1.0

2007 12 42 4.0 1.5

Totals 24 76 8.0 2.5

[1989Fan]

Ahtyba was just dominating at the shrine practices/game.

he isnt a 'impact' player from stats standpoint. I am calling it now (i have a month or so ago too) Ahtyba will be a starter in the NFL in a season or two. He is raw, and still dominates OLmen.

[Mr. Offseason]

devans (3/7/2008)

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Amen on this post. Awesome detail, thanks for the insight. As I've been saying, Ellis and Dorsey don't fit MS's scheme defensively, and Bryant and Dre Moore would more amply fit that. I think Bryant will slip to our high 3rd round pick, but Dre Moore (DT from Maryland) should be looked at for the UT rotation (that might be absent T. Lewis for a while) with our 2nd round pick.

first, he posted the scouting report from nfl draft scout, so the detail and insight... yeah not so much.

as for them not fitting the scheme, if they dont fit the scheme then how the **** does the signing of kendell moorehead (who weighs 285 pounds and is a pass rusher) make ANY sense at all?

[jidady]

rmarchma (3/7/2008)

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Dorsey's just 300 pounds, which is not the ideal weight for a true niose tackle. He is more of a penetrator/disrupter, which is characteristic of an under tackle, rather than a space eating nose tackle who takes on multiple blockers.

The weight thing is in flux since he's generally been listed at 315-320 pounds throughout his career. I'm not worried about his being able to play at that weight in his NFL career. He's thinner right now due to wanting to ace all of the agility/speed tests that comprise the prospect workout season before the draft.

Specifically, you have just described Dorsey well twice in your either/or. You say he is a penetrator/disrupter, which he can be. Then, you mention that a nose is a space eater who takes on multiple blockers, which Dorsey also is. In fact, I have heard Polian say twice recently that he doesn't believe there are 10 interior linemen in the NFL who can block Dorsey one on one. Assuming that those ten guys are spread out on ten teams, that would still leave 70% of the NFL needing to at least double him.

Dorsey is special. He's a dream DT prospect, because he has the penetration ability of the best pass rushing DTs, but he controls the line of scrimmage like the best NTs.

Ahtyba Rubin

Here is the scouting report quote on Rubin that sell what he's about:

"Rubin's statistical improvement his senior season was minimal (42 tackles, 4 TFL, 1.5 sacks), but his impact on the Iowa State defense was not. With a build like a coke machine, Rubin is tough to move off the line of scrimmage, providing play-making opportunities for the defenders around him."

To wit, NFL Draft Scout used to have a stat up on his page about the difference in yards per carry average when he was on the field versus when he wasn't. It was like 2 yards a play. College linemen just didn't have a chance against him.

[jidady]

1989fan (3/7/2008)

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Ahtyba was just dominating at the shrine practices/game.

he isnt a 'impact' player from stats standpoint. I am calling it now (i have a month or so ago too) Ahtyba will be a starter in the NFL in a season or two. He is raw, and still dominates OLmen.

Yeah, he's a Grady Jackson type who won't play more than 20 snaps a game, but he will control the line of scrimmage when he is on the field.

[docmac]

Just wondering if the recent signings of D-Linemen is an indicator that maybe DT is not going to be our pick at #3 . Rashard Moore sounds as if we are starting to go big at DT. Could we be looking more at Okam , Bryant or Harrison not Ellis or Dorsey?

Another question - What role is the DT going to play in this defense? If pass rusher is the plan then Dorsey or Ellis , However if the plan is to be a space eater and let the LB's fly around them why not Okam or Bryant. We can sit here all day and debate who the best DT is, However in my eyes it comes down to roles.