birdweiserrr Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 Ok, I understand what you are saying, as it really all boils down to what TD and the organization think, as do all of the decisions regarding the Falcons. Since I have no insight into the inner thoughts of TD, I cannot argue what he may or may not do. I can only say that based on the moves that he has made so far, I would be willing to bet that he won't pull the trigger on Ryan at #3.Ryan may not even be his man, if he even has one in this draft. Lets say Flacco is the guy that TD thinks will be a franchise QB. Surely TD wouldn't believe that he's the only GM in the league that thinks that about Flacco. That means waiting til the 2nd round to draft him would be more than likely too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Solo Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 birdweiserrr (3/5/2008)Ryan may not even be his man, if he even has one in this draft. Lets say Flacco is the guy that TD thinks will be a franchise QB. Surely TD wouldn't believe that he's the only GM in the league that thinks that about Flacco. That means waiting til the 2nd round to draft him would be more than likely too late.I agree with your concept, but then then it really boils down to how much does TD think Flacco is worth. There is no way he is pulling the trigger at #3, so at that point, it really boils down to where TD thinks he would need to move up to in order to grab him, or if he really needs to move up at all. Ok, now my question for you is if the Falcons move up to the 32nd pick, which is technically the 2nd round this year, although in a normal year it would be the first round, would you still consider that to be too late???:P:P:P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert L Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 birdweiserrr (3/5/2008)TD will not be thinking, "well I believe so and so is a franchise QB and he should be there in the 2nd". Franchise QB's go in the 1st.Where did Atl hire TD from-what team was it again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdweiserrr Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Don Solo (3/5/2008)birdweiserrr (3/5/2008)Ryan may not even be his man, if he even has one in this draft. Lets say Flacco is the guy that TD thinks will be a franchise QB. Surely TD wouldn't believe that he's the only GM in the league that thinks that about Flacco. That means waiting til the 2nd round to draft him would be more than likely too late.I agree with your concept, but then then it really boils down to how much does TD think Flacco is worth. There is no way he is pulling the trigger at #3, so at that point, it really boils down to where TD thinks he would need to move up to in order to grab him, or if he really needs to move up at all. Ok, now my question for you is if the Falcons move up to the 32nd pick, which is technically the 2nd round this year, although in a normal year it would be the first round, would you still consider that to be too late???:P:P:PThat would mean that in a normal draft every other GM that needed a franchise QB would have to pass up the one that TD believed would be a franchise QB. So technically it does matter. You don't wanna give every GM in the NFL the chance to draft your guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gritz Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Don Solo (3/5/2008)Ok, now my question for you is if the Falcons move up to the 32nd pick, which is technically the 2nd round this year, although in a normal year it would be the first round, would you still consider that to be too late???:P:P:PThat's why we're all just amateur GMs and Dimitroff is the real deal. I guess he has to look at the other NFL teams on the board.....who needs a QB badly enough...I'm sure there's a lot of smokescreens and false info put out there.I have this weird feeling that either Brian Brohm or Chad Henne are going to be our next QB.Of course it's totally possible that TD does what most "experts" think he's going to do and picks Ryan at #3...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert L Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 birdweiserrr (3/5/2008)Don Solo (3/5/2008)londonfalcon (3/5/2008)Build the line and they will make the QB look better.I could not agree more with this statement. There are quite a few QBs that can look like "franchise QBs" if they are not running for their lives. To me, I just don't see Ryan being head and shoulders better than anyone the Falcons could get at the top of the 2nd round this year. If there was that much of a difference between Ryan and a Henne or Flacco, then I would say draft Ryan without question. However, I just don't see him being that much better. So, my opinion is to draft either OL or DL in the first, and then address QB in the second.You don't pass up on a player that you think is a franchise QB when you need a franchise QB. That player will not be available in the 2nd, unless you're the only GM that believes he's a franchise QB. It is just not gonna happen.Plenty of "Franchise QBs" have been and will continue to be drafted in later rounds. Tom Brady 6th, Marc Bulger 6th, Matt Hasselbeck, David Garrard to name a few and all have at least brought their teams to the playoffs. ENOUGH SAID! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdweiserrr Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Plenty of "Franchise QBs" have been and will continue to be drafted in later rounds. Tom Brady 6th, Marc Bulger 6th, Matt Hasselbeck, David Garrard to name a few and all have at least brought their teams to the playoffs. ENOUGH SAID!Come on, lets use some common sense here. No GM said, "I believe Tom Brady will be a franchise QB, lets see if we can get him in the 6th round". Let me ask you this, since apparently we both believe T Brady is a franchise QB. If T Brady was on the board at #3, would you drafy him? (Considering you know what you know and he's just coming out of college.)I bet you'd say yes and that's my point. I'm talking about someone that TD believes will be a franchise QB. Maybe there isn't someone, but maybe there is. Name another franchise QB in the NFL now. Now if he was available in this draft and you know what you know now and he's just coming out of college, would you draft him at #3? Of course you would. Point made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarterback Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 You have to build the "franchise" first.No franchise = no way to have a franchise player!In other words, you can have a franchise without a franchise player, but not vice versa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert L Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 birdweiserrr (3/5/2008)Come on, lets use some common sense here. No GM said, "I believe Tom Brady will be a franchise QB, lets see if we can get him in the 6th round". Let me ask you this, since apparently we both believe T Brady is a franchise QB. If T Brady was on the board at #3, would you drafy him? (Considering you know what you know and he's just coming out of college.)I bet you'd say yes and that's my point. I'm talking about someone that TD believes will be a franchise QB. Maybe there isn't someone, but maybe there is. Name another franchise QB in the NFL now. Now if he was available in this draft and you know what you know now and he's just coming out of college, would you draft him at #3? Of course you would. Point made.HAH-of course...IF hindsight was 20/20 I'm sure we never would have traded Favre either. And San Diego wouldn't have drafted Ryan Leaf, the Bengals would have passed on Akili Smith, Cade McNown would never have worn a Bears uniform...TOUCHEMy biggest concern with what you are saying is that we are in desperate need of a QB-and on a certain level you are right. But QB is SUCH a crap shoot regardless of where they are drafted. Across the board on the O-line we need help, We need D-line too pretty much across the board. If Hall is traded a solid if not premier corner will be needed. With all the glaring needs on this team I say address O-line and D-lines in 1st and Second rounds, then worry about taking the best player available. A veteran can be brought it if they think it is needed-but I think Redman can hold the fort for at least 2 years. If the pick in the first round is used on a QB and sit him for a year the issues on both lines will be a LITTLE better, but you are still putting a lot of pressure on a STILL young QB next year. Taking a pounding because of a poor line, and the feeling of having to carry the team because your D-line can't stop anyone. But, this is simply MY opinion...if the Falcons DO draft a QB at the 3rd spot I will support-but I still will think it was a bad move-and hopefully a couple years down the line that QB will hoist up the Lombardi trophy and I'll have to eat my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdweiserrr Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 HAH-of course...IF hindsight was 20/20 I'm sure we never would have traded Favre either. And San Diego wouldn't have drafted Ryan Leaf, the Bengals would have passed on Akili Smith, Cade McNown would never have worn a Bears uniform...TOUCHEMy biggest concern with what you are saying is that we are in desperate need of a QB-and on a certain level you are right. But QB is SUCH a crap shoot regardless of where they are drafted. Across the board on the O-line we need help, We need D-line too pretty much across the board. If Hall is traded a solid if not premier corner will be needed. With all the glaring needs on this team I say address O-line and D-lines in 1st and Second rounds, then worry about taking the best player available. A veteran can be brought it if they think it is needed-but I think Redman can hold the fort for at least 2 years. If the pick in the first round is used on a QB and sit him for a year the issues on both lines will be a LITTLE better, but you are still putting a lot of pressure on a STILL young QB next year. Taking a pounding because of a poor line, and the feeling of having to carry the team because your D-line can't stop anyone. But, this is simply MY opinion...if the Falcons DO draft a QB at the 3rd spot I will support-but I still will think it was a bad move-and hopefully a couple years down the line that QB will hoist up the Lombardi trophy and I'll have to eat my words.I'm not talking about hindsight. Please read this very carefully, as I will be saying the same thing I've said 20 other times in this thread. If TD believes there is a player in this draft that will be a franchise QB, he will draft him in round 1. Think about the other franchise QB's in the NFL now. Manning's, Brady, Roeth, etc. IF TD believes there is a player in this draft that will be like one of those guys, he will draft him in round 1 if he is available. Again, if TD believes there is a player in this draft that will be a franchise QB, I believe he will draft him in round 1.Please read that as many times as you need to. I see posters saying dumb crap like, "I believe Flacco will be the next Roethlisberger. Lets get him in the 2nd round."If you (hopefully as a GM) believe Flacco is the next Roethlisberger, either you are the only GM that believes that or he will not be there in the 2nd round. Will somebody please say they understand what I'm saying? It's not that hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big B Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Yawn. Debating what TD will do if TD beleives this, that or the other. Too much semantics in this topic. I feel like I am watching one english teacher debate another over syntax and comma splices. Bottom line is TD will draft the best value player at a position of need. He is NOT guaranteed to draft a suspected franchise QB. He might do it, and he might decide having a franchise qb hold the clipboard this year and get destroyed next year because of a weak line is a bad idea. No one knows, including TD at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcons4life Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Bird,Ive understood your point from post #1 and agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert L Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Big B (3/5/2008)Yawn. Debating what TD will do if TD beleives this, that or the other. Too much semantics in this topic. I feel like I am watching one english teacher debate another over syntax and comma splices. Bottom line is TD will draft the best value player at a position of need. He is NOT guaranteed to draft a suspected franchise QB. He might do it, and he might decide having a franchise qb hold the clipboard this year and get destroyed next year because of a weak line is a bad idea. No one knows, including TD at this point.Good point...And yes, birdweiserrr, I understand your point-but you are simply focused on the QB spot. He will draft what he thinks is the best fit for this team. Franchise QB-maybe, Franchise LT perhaps-Franchise DT-you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdweiserrr Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Big B (3/5/2008)Yawn. Debating what TD will do if TD beleives this, that or the other. Too much semantics in this topic. I feel like I am watching one english teacher debate another over syntax and comma splices. Bottom line is TD will draft the best value player at a position of need. He is NOT guaranteed to draft a suspected franchise QB. He might do it, and he might decide having a franchise qb hold the clipboard this year and get destroyed next year because of a weak line is a bad idea. No one knows, including TD at this point.I simply feel like TD will draft a QB in round 1 if he believes that guy will be a franchise QB. No one has to agree with that opinion. I simply don't think he's gonna pass up a guy that he feels that way about. I believe he'll take the franchise QB over the franchise RB, franchise Ol'man, franchise CB, etc.Thats my point and my opinion. No need to argue that Ryan isn't a franchise QB. No need to argue that grass is red and white. No need to argue that TD is smart or not. Those topics can have their own thread. This thread is about my opinion that TD will draft a franchise QB (if he feels like theres one in this draft) over any other position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red2play Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 One problem, Matt Ryan isn't a franchise Qb. I'm talking about tape and competition, on both fronts, he's failed. Also, for the vertical offense, he doesn't have the arm. So when you don't have a franchise Qb available, you go with OL or DL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcons4life Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 red2play (3/5/2008)One problem, Matt Ryan isn't a franchise Qb. I'm talking about tape and competition, on both fronts, he's failed. Also, for the vertical offense, he doesn't have the arm. So when you don't have a franchise Qb available, you go with OL or DL.Well, that is what Bird is saying. If TD thinks no QB in the draft is worthy of being deemed a franchise QB in his mind then we select from another position in the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdweiserrr Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 falcons4life (3/5/2008)red2play (3/5/2008)One problem, Matt Ryan isn't a franchise Qb. I'm talking about tape and competition, on both fronts, he's failed. Also, for the vertical offense, he doesn't have the arm. So when you don't have a franchise Qb available, you go with OL or DL.Well, that is what Bird is saying. If TD thinks no QB in the draft is worthy of being deemed a franchise QB in his mind then we select from another position in the first.Thank God. I really appreciate it man. I really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert L Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Well, perhaps it was because of the title? "Here's why we draft a QB in the 1st round..." And well, part of the fun of the boards is to pick minds-yes? Not so much argue as debate... Would be pretty lame if we all went the same way of thinking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdweiserrr Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Robert L (3/5/2008)Well, perhaps it was because of the title? "Here's why we draft a QB in the 1st round..." And well, part of the fun of the boards is to pick minds-yes? Not so much argue as debate... Would be pretty lame if we all went the same way of thinking...And I still believe we'll pick a QB in the 1st because I believe there is probably a QB out there that TD believes can or will be a franchise QB. Maybe he believes 1 is out there and maybe he doesn't. I believe he thinks there is. We'll see. Maybe he'll say he believed so and so was a franchise QB but he chose someone else. We'll see. If he believes theres a franchise QB on board, I believe he takes that player over any other franchise position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert L Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Well, I am going by what the Patriots have done-tough to tell because they had Brady, but they beefed up the D-Line and O-lines: First Picks each year that Pioli/Belichick were there and TD was on the staff....15 (46) New England Patriots - Adrian Klemm, T Hawaii 20006. New England Patriots - Richard Seymour, DT Georgia 200121. New England Daniel Graham TE Colorado 200213 New England Ty Warren DT Texas A&M 200321. New England (from Bal) - Vince Wilfork, DT Miami (Fla) 200432. New England - Ben Watson, TE Georgia 200432. New England Patriots - Logan Mankins, OG Fresno State 200521. New England - Laurence Maroney, RB Minnesota 200624. New England - Brandon Meriweather, S Miami 2007Well....this is simply how they drafted....just curious to see how far he will stray from his root. And again-yes, the Patriot already had Drew Bledsoe(Starter 2000) and Tom Brady. So, it should be interesting to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjv315 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 The way I see it is that since we signed Redman for 2 years, there is no reason to draft a QB with the #3 pick, when either a #3 or a #33 (just a random draft spot) would be learning from Redman anyway. We all know the Falcons needs help at OL and that Mike Smith is bringing that big DL mentality to the middle of the line and there is big time help at both of those positions with the #3 pick. I don't see Ryan in an ATL uniform and I'm sure we'll be fine. Plus, it's funny how everyone but actual NFL personnel see Ryan as the best things since sliced bread. I'd take Jake Long, Gholston, or Dorsey at #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jidady Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 birdweiserrr (3/5/2008)If TD believes M Ryan, or any other QB, is a franchise QB, I believe he will not pass up on that player if he's available in the 1st.Clear something up for me. Is it your assertion that the Falcons will draft a QB in the first round or is that we won't pass one up, thereby selecting one at #3? The discussions are separate, not the same at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler something Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran-dawg Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Come on, lets use some common sense here. No GM said, "I believe Tom Brady will be a franchise QB, lets see if we can get him in the 6th round". Let me ask you this, since apparently we both believe T Brady is a franchise QB. If T Brady was on the board at #3, would you drafy him? (Considering you know what you know and he's just coming out of college.)I bet you'd say yes and that's my point. I'm talking about someone that TD believes will be a franchise QB. Maybe there isn't someone, but maybe there is. Name another franchise QB in the NFL now. Now if he was available in this draft and you know what you know now and he's just coming out of college, would you draft him at #3? Of course you would. Point made.I would take Brett Favre at 3 instead of waiting until the second round. After that I would consider keeping him.LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran-dawg Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Quarterback (3/5/2008)You have to build the "franchise" first.No franchise = no way to have a franchise player!In other words, you can have a franchise without a franchise player, but not vice versa!Barry Sanders wasn't a franchise player. There was no franchise when Brett got to G. Bay either. Same with Montana in S.F. You make or break a franchise on who you think are franchise players or not. If you guess right you make a franchise, guess wrong and your the Atlanta Falcons. And when we do draft one, we lose them somehow. Either by trade or prison.LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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