Glenn Dorsey vs. Sedrick Ellis

[falconfandan]

I've been going back and forth in my mind over the Jake Long/DT debate at #3. I think I'd rather us go D-line at 3 and go OT with our next pick because I think we'd probably have more variety with solid OT's late in the first round (assuming we can dump MeAngelo)

I see that a lot of posters on here prefer Ellis to Dorsey and I was wondering why. I think right now I prefer Dorsey, but I've seen more than a couple of posters who prefer Ellis. Just wondering what it is about the two that makes you prefer Ellis.

[Jp7833]

We have to take Jake Long at 3 if he is there. We have already put money into our DE's. All we have to do is plug the defensive line with a 300+ pounder, someone who can plug some holes leaving Abraham and Anderson some room to contain and rush the passer. If we dont take Jake Long third it will be the biggest mistake we have made since trading away the Favre.

[falconfandan]

The injuries last season are a concern, but I found it interesting that Scouts Inc. gave Ellis a durability flag and not Dorsey.

and I disagree to a point about Long. He might be the best player at #3, but currently we have Lewis, Babineaux and Stanley at DT. Lewis will be a player if healthy(of course I'm biased as president of his fan club) but we got no push from our interior line last year when he got hurt and the quickest way to turnaround a franchise is with a dominant defensive line which I think Ellis or Dorsey can help to provide.

[.leon]

I'm a massive Dorsey fan myself. He was consistently good over the years, even when playing through injuries, and consistently better than Ellis. I also think he had more of an impact on his team. Ellis has shot up because of his SB, and the fact that Dorsey has been inactive recently.

As for the injury issues, I have no idea whether they are accurate or not. I certainly hope not, because Dorsey has the potential to be a great player.

[.leon]

falconfandan (3/3/2008)

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The injuries last season are a concern, but I found it interesting that Scouts Inc. gave Ellis a durability flag and not Dorsey.

I'm not sure. There are definitely concerns over Long's ability to handle speed rushers. I most certainly don't want to spend the #3 pick on a guy who ends up moving inside because he can't handle NFL speed DEs.

[d-rod]

grendel (3/3/2008)

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There's a lot of rumors and reports about Dorsey having injuries. I don't buy it, personally, but our FO will have 1st hand knowledge and medical examination records to work from. These kind of rumors come out every year, often spread by teams that want to pick up the player if he drops.

Again, correct.

I personally prefer Dorsey. I think that the injury rumours are a nonsense, and Dorsey has consistently dominated at the highest level to an extent that Ellis has not.

Also, Dorsey is an inspirational leader, exactly what we need.

As far as I'm concerned, it comes down to:

G.Dorsey (assuming that the medical reports are clear, as I expect, he's the best player in the draft)

J.Long (he and Blalock would clear enormous holes)

M.Ryan (however you look at it, we need a QB, and he's the best available)

Thankfully we have the 3rd pick; if we had the 5th, I could really have seen us getting screwed.

I like any of these scenarios:

Ryan; Nicks; Moore

Long; Flacco; Moore

Dorsey; Flacco; Collins

The third option is probably my favourite right now...

[.leon]

d-rod (3/3/2008)

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I like any of these scenarios:

Ryan; Nicks; Moore

Long; Flacco; Moore

Dorsey; Flacco; Collins

The third option is probably my favourite right now...

I like your third too, but switch round Collins and Flacco .

[Jp7833]

We need an offensive line. End of story.

[.leon]

I don't mind getting O-linemen in the 2 and later rounds, because I don't think all O-linemen need to be studs for us to have a great O-line. If all are above-average, and can play well together, then that's enough for Turner/Norwood to rack up some yards, especially behind Mughelli.

[.leon]

grendel (3/3/2008)

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Flacco will go fast, as will Brohm and Henne. Collins will be there at our 2nd pick, IMO, but I doubt any of those QB's are.

Well I said switch them round because to be honest I'm not a massive Flacco fan. I would accept him being taken, but I don't think as much of him as some others on this board. I see him as a JP Losman type guy, who could end up being good or bad. I'd rather solidify our lines and take a Qb in the 3rd. One has to be there (I hope) whether it's Flacco, JDB, Woodson, or even JJ.

[Jp7833]

How does having nine or ten picks change the fact that we need an offensive line? Your argument is fallible...

[Jp7833]

Because its arguably our biggest need. More so than a Defensive Tackle thats for sure.

[falconfandan]

That's arguable at best, incredibly shortsighted at worst.

[falconfandan]

grendel (3/3/2008)

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Jp7833 (3/3/2008)

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Because its arguably our biggest need. More so than a Defensive Tackle thats for sure.

How's the depth at OT vs. DT?

I like how you think.

[jidady]

The only way I expect us to take Ellis is if Dorsey's medical rumors are based in fact. Otherwise, it's a slam dunk. At this moment, I think it's down to Dorsey versus Long if we don't trade down.

[falconfandan]

Yeah, I just wondered why so many people seemingly wanted Ellis over Dorsey.

Again, I think I'm leaning to Dorsey over Long, but I'm not sure. There is no way of knowing how the draft board is going to shake out. It also depends on what happens with D-Hall. If we can move into the bottom end of the first round and improve our chances of landing a guy like Jeff Otah or Chris Williams, I'm definitely in favor of taking Dorsey at #3.

[jidady]

Ellis is more of a penetrator and upfield disruptor. That's his appeal. Dorsey is more of a "control the line of scrimmage" player, but either one of them would be the best DT in the draft in several of the years in the 2000s. I think either one goes ahead of Corey Simon in 2000, Ryan Sims in 2002, anybody in 2004 or 2005 (no DTs went in the top 10 those years), Ngata in 2006 or Okoye in 2007 . I'm not sure about Gerard Warren in 2001 or Dewayne Robinson in 2003. Both of those guys had a lot of attention around them so while I'm sure Dorsey would have been graded over them, I'm not sure about Ellis.

2002 was the last time we had a draft class this rich with blue chip defensive tackles, but KC (along with several other folks) incorrectly graded Sims over the UT boys, Henderson and Haynesworth.

[Jp7833]

Offensive lineman are hard to find, defensive lineman any ol' 300+ pound good southern bumpkin can play. Ex. Grady Jackson.

[scott24falcs]

Jp7833 (3/3/2008)

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Offensive lineman are hard to find, defensive lineman any ol' 300+ pound good southern bumpkin can play. Ex. Grady Jackson.

Oh, geez..........

[.leon]

Jp7833 (3/3/2008)

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Offensive lineman are hard to find, defensive lineman any ol' 300+ pound good southern bumpkin can play. Ex. Grady Jackson.

That's complete rubbish...

[BigSlick]

I would say it's a real dilemma for the Falcons. There is a chance that Ellis/Dorsey/and J. Long will all be available. Slim, but possible.

Out of those 3, I have it: 1. Jake Long 2. Glenn Dorsey 3. Sedrick Ellis...in that order. (My overall top 5 are C. Long/J. Long/G. Dorsey/S. Ellis/V. Gholston.)

The problem rest in the fact that this is a very deep draft for OT's and not so for DT's. So, if there is any doubt about J. Long's ability to hold down the left side, then I think you can pass on him and take Dorsey.

The case for Long, in my opinion, is that elite LT's is the hardest position to come by, except QB at an elite level. If the scouts believe he is going to be an elite LT, then there is NO WAY you can pass on him. You CANNOT trade the pick either. Now, on the flip side, if they believe he is a little bit of risk @ LT and will be only a good RT, then you could justify taking Dorsey or Ellis.

My point is this for Long. If you had to chose between Walter Jones, the best LT in the game right now in my opinion, or Jamaal Williams the highest rated DT in the game, who would you take? I would be willing to bet that every GM would take Walter Jones. (Based on Scouts Inc ratings.)

[jidady]

I'd take Walter Jones if it were three years ago. Today, I'd take Tommie Harris.

But this isn't about guys already in the NFL. It's about who is better between the guys under discussion. I rank them 1) Dorsey 2) Ellis 3) Long. I can live with any of them, but that's how I see the big three. I actually would put Chris Long on the same level with Dorsey and ahead of the other two, but I am uncertain where the current staff falls on the idea of taking a DE/DT hybrid guy at #3.

[BigSlick]

jidady (3/3/2008)

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I'd take Walter Jones if it were three years ago. Today, I'd take Tommie Harris.

But this isn't about guys already in the NFL. It's about who is better between the guys under discussion. I rank them 1) Dorsey 2) Ellis 3) Long. I can live with any of them, but that's how I see the big three. I actually would put Chris Long on the same level with Dorsey and ahead of the other two, but I am uncertain where the current staff falls on the idea of taking a DE/DT hybrid guy at #3.

My point was to be made as who you would take in their prime, the best LT or the best DT.

I know this discussion isn't about who is already in the NFL...I was making a point. If you think that, for instance, Dorsey will be an elite DT and Long will be an elite left tackle...you take Long without even thinking about it.

At some point you have to have faith in your scouts and front office to make the best decision. If our choices are between Jake and Dorsey and Jake ends up a probowl LT and Dorsey ends up a probowl DT, I will be upset.

But, then again, with the depth @ OT this year...we can really evaluate this draft as a whole. If we get Dorsey and he is all world and say Anthony Collins who plays at a high level for a long time...I will be happy no matter how good J. Long ends up being.

[jidady]

I hear what you're saying and I think you have evaluated the entire situation perfectly. I disagree with you about the fact that if Long is an All-Pro LT, we have screwed up by not picking him if Dorsey is an All-Pro DT, though. I think that would depend entirely upon what happens with the LT we do get. If that player is above average and Dorsey is dominant, we've come out ahead.

I also think there is another interesting aspect to the question. Let's say that Dorsey develops into a John Henderson type and Long develops into a Jon Runyan type. Which of those would you prefer? There isn't a wrong answer here. It's all a matter of preference. I am one of the strongest proponents of the idea that Long will struggle mightily against some players as a LT. Even so, I still think he is the best pure tackle in this draft. The debate lies in which side he will play. If being spectacular at RT as good as being spectacular at NT? That's the question I find most relevant here.

[Mr. Offseason]

Jp7833 (3/3/2008)

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We have to take Jake Long at 3 if he is there. We have already put money into our DE's. All we have to do is plug the defensive line with a 300+ pounder, someone who can plug some holes leaving Abraham and Anderson some room to contain and rush the passer. If we dont take Jake Long third it will be the biggest mistake we have made since trading away the Favre.

i like long, but this defense relies on a very good pass rush from the front 4. we cant simply draft or sign a player and stick him in to stop the run. we need players that can rush the passer at every position along the defensive line, not just at 2 or 3. this defense is a defense that, when it gets good pressure on the qb, most every other player on the field is staring right at the qb playing in a zone. so if the qb has to force a throw before the wr turns back, finishes his route etc or if we get pressure and the qb is hit as he is throwing, or throws a lame duck etc, then we have a lot of great opportunities for interceptions. if we dont rush the passer well, however, then the qb (especially good qbs) will pick us apart and it wont matter how good jake long is.

thats why i want us to get sedrick ellis right now.