blunttokinplaymaker Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Storms Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 That's two pretty big salaries to take on while knowing both have not yet lived up to their draft status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Fan Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Robertson has done a great job thins year, despite playing out of position. I would be all over that deal if we can get them both signed to new deals upon trading. Robertsons is a heavy deal (like 10M) but Vilma is very cheap. Under a million base probably, since it is the last year of his rookie deal.I was about to say the Jets would laugh, and it think they would, but you never know if they want to unload Robertsons salary. But I am thinking they will renegotiate him and move him to DE in their 3-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Storms Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 1989fan (2/26/2008)Robertson has done a great job thins year, despite playing out of position. I would be all over that deal if we can get them both signed to new deals upon trading. Robertsons is a heavy deal (like 10M) but Vilma is very cheap. Under a million base probably, since it is the last year of his rookie deal.I was about to say the Jets would laugh, and it think they would, but you never know if they want to unload Robertsons salary. But I am thinking they will renegotiate him and move him to DE in their 3-4.There wouldn't be much point in trading for Vilma if we weren't giving him a new contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLBrave12 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Richard Nixon (2/26/2008)That's two pretty big salaries to take on while knowing both have not yet lived up to their draft status.When has Vilma not lived up to his draft status? He's a top 5 4-3 MLB.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Storms Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 ATLBrave12 (2/26/2008)Richard Nixon (2/26/2008)That's two pretty big salaries to take on while knowing both have not yet lived up to their draft status.When has Vilma not lived up to his draft status? He's a top 5 4-3 MLB..With a degenerative knee condition and mediocre production since his rookie year several seasons ago before his knee became an issue. His first year was fantastic, and he followed it up with a great second year, albiet one with fewer big plays, his play has declined since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pured-hallfan Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 No to expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Fan Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Richard Nixon (2/26/2008)With a degenerative knee condition and mediocre production since his rookie year several seasons ago before his knee became an issue. His first year was fantastic, and he followed it up with a great second year, albiet one with fewer big plays, his play has declined since then.maybe because they moved to the 3-4 where he doesnt fit?That IS why he wants traded ya know. He has been stellar every single season NYJ ran the 4-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Storms Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 1989fan (2/27/2008)Richard Nixon (2/26/2008)With a degenerative knee condition and mediocre production since his rookie year several seasons ago before his knee became an issue. His first year was fantastic, and he followed it up with a great second year, albiet one with fewer big plays, his play has declined since then.maybe because they moved to the 3-4 where he doesnt fit?That IS why he wants traded ya know. He has been stellar every single season NYJ ran the 4-3.Every single season? Like, all of one season, before the knee condition became an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhrone Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 If Vilma was in the 4-3 he would dominate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Fan Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Richard Nixon (2/27/2008)Every single season? Like, all of one season, before the knee condition became an issue?first, the knee condition never became an issue alone. Its not like he woke up week 11 and a degenerative knee condition set in. He had an in game injury.second, he has had 3 good seasons. He rookie season was very good (107 tckles, 3 int, 2 sack), we all know about his 2nd season (insane) and even his 3rd season in the 3-4 he put up good numbers. 113 tkls, 1 int. The 3-4 just does not fit his skill set.whats your next argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 1989fan (2/27/2008)Richard Nixon (2/27/2008)Every single season? Like, all of one season, before the knee condition became an issue?first, the knee condition never became an issue alone. Its not like he woke up week 11 and a degenerative knee condition set in. He had an in game injury.second, he has had 3 good seasons. He rookie season was very good (107 tckles, 3 int, 2 sack), we all know about his 2nd season (insane) and even his 3rd season in the 3-4 he put up good numbers. 113 tkls, 1 int. The 3-4 just does not fit his skill set.whats your next argument?He's a bust? :ermm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Storms Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 1989fan (2/27/2008)Richard Nixon (2/27/2008)Every single season? Like, all of one season, before the knee condition became an issue?first, the knee condition never became an issue alone. Its not like he woke up week 11 and a degenerative knee condition set in. He had an in game injury.second, he has had 3 good seasons. He rookie season was very good (107 tckles, 3 int, 2 sack), we all know about his 2nd season (insane) and even his 3rd season in the 3-4 he put up good numbers. 113 tkls, 1 int. The 3-4 just does not fit his skill set.whats your next argument?He has a combined two picks, 0 sacks and one FF in the last two years, that makes Keith Brooking look like a playmaker. His first two years were great, though in his second year he did't have quite as many big plays and developed more into a regular run-stuffing MLB, his third, he made literally half as many solo tackles as the year before, and the last two years he has been generally mediocre. The 3-4 doesn't fit his skill set, but do we want another MLB that can't stack and shed, and needs protection to be effective? The knee condition was also a problem that was already there, he got hurt and played seven games last year because of the in-game injury and this condition. It gets tiresome when people choose to percieve an arguement as changing when it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Fan Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 he was also not diployed as a blitzing ILB at all. you hit the nail on the head when you said the 3-4 was ill fitting. His responsibilities changed completely so obviously his 'impact' plays will change as well.He had his knee condition before last season, before being in the NFL. Like I said, he didnt just fall on IR because of a knee condition. He was injured. It could have happened to him even if he didnt have the condition. He and the doctors who operated both said he would make a full recovery from this surgery. He is already running, and said he should be doing full workouts by next month. Unless you know something medically that I dont it is premature to say he will not be effective going foward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Storms Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 1989fan (2/27/2008)he was also not diployed as a blitzing ILB at all. you hit the nail on the head when you said the 3-4 was ill fitting. His responsibilities changed completely so obviously his 'impact' plays will change as well.He had his knee condition before last season, before being in the NFL. Like I said, he didnt just fall on IR because of a knee condition. He was injured. It could have happened to him even if he didnt have the condition. He and the doctors who operated both said he would make a full recovery from this surgery. He is already running, and said he should be doing full workouts by next month. Unless you know something medically that I dont it is premature to say he will not be effective going foward.He was a traditional 4-3 linebacker before, and he switched to a 3-4 one, he wasn't a killer blitzer at any point because attacking the line is not his strength, he's a chaser, that's not really what I want in a MLB.Because he was injured and his knee condition was not the only factor, we should ignore both? This is trading a high draft pick for someone, and giving him a new contract to be our starting MLB, this is something we should be absolutely positive about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Fan Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Oh, I agree it is something that would need looked over for sure. I am not argueing that for one second.were our disagreement started was me getting te impression that you dont think we should even consider the guy because of the knee.Many top 4-3 LBs are chasers. We tried bringing in a thumper and it didnt work too well. I know he was hurt, but his impact was minimal before and after the injury. I just refuse to ignore what he did in a 4-3, and say he wont be a good fit here.....if his knee checks out from a slew of tests of course..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Storms Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 1989fan (2/27/2008)Oh, I agree it is something that would need looked over for sure. I am not argueing that for one second.were our disagreement started was me getting te impression that you dont think we should even consider the guy because of the knee.Many top 4-3 LBs are chasers. We tried bringing in a thumper and it didnt work too well. I know he was hurt, but his impact was minimal before and after the injury. I just refuse to ignore what he did in a 4-3, and say he wont be a good fit here.....if his knee checks out from a slew of tests of course.....The thumper didn't work out because he wasn't more than a 3-4 stuffer that needed speed around him and benefited from plays coming his way, plus the torn Achilles. I can see bringing in someone else to fill that role, if TD finds someone more competent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Fan Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 If we bring in a thumper I hope it is Curtis Lofton or Jonathan Goff. Nothing really impresses me in FA or trade to fill the MLB position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Storms Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 1989fan (2/27/2008)If we bring in a thumper I hope it is Curtis Lofton or Jonathan Goff. Nothing really impresses me in FA or trade to fill the MLB position.I agree, unfortunately there aren't that many big names on defense that stick out and weren't tagged, much less solid MLBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconBlood Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 How would one second get two former 1st rounders who have performed quite well for their teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimmesomo Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Does somebody have a link about Johnathan Vilma's "degenerative knee" condition because i can't find any factual evidence supporting that statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott24falcs Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 . http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...e_injury-2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimmesomo Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 scott24falcs (2/27/2008). http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...e_injury-2.htmlThanks! I like knowing exact info and a "degenerative knee" and a "bone defect" seems like two different things to me. Had he gotten surgery in the first place he'd probably be o.k. right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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