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vdclover

?? for anyone who thinks we should pass on Ryan

111 posts in this topic

Everyone can agree that we need a QB, but the consensus is that we should pass on Ryan with the 3rd pick and pickup someone in the 2nd round, (Flacco,Henne, etc).

Alot of examples are given on how teams draft a QB in the 1st round and they turn out to be busts (Ryan Leaf,Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, etc).

But here is a question for those who believe we should go with a QB in the 2nd round

Over the last 10 years, who are/were the "good/great" QB's to come out of the 2nd round to backup this claim that we will get a QB just as good or better than Ryan in the 2nd round?

Drew Breeze is the only QB I can think of that fits this and he was the 1st pick in the second round.

The facts are that most of the starting QB's in the league are either 1st round picks or late(6-7th) round/non-drafted QB's.

It seems to me most scouts get it right about the quality of a QB deserving to be a 1st rnd selection.

There's a reason why the people who get paid to assess the talent say Ryan has all the tools to be a great QB and is rated quite higher than Henne, Flacco, & Woodson.

I'm not saying we should take Ryan, I'm just know that we need a quality long term QB and I'm not seeing alot of examples of where teams got their long term starting QB in the 2nd round.

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I don't care about the last 10 years. I just don't think Ryan is worth the #3 pick. Maybe i'mn wrong, but watching him, looking at all the INT's he threw and seeing that he was somewhat of a one year wonder in his 5th year of college ball doesn't convince me he's a sure thing. The Falcons have had Mike Vick, Joey Harrington, Byron Leftwich and Chris Redman on the roster over the last year. They've had enough QB busts to see it's a risky move and they need to simply go with a player who is a safe bet to come right in, make an impact and be good for a long time.

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I think he is rated so highly because he had some Tom Brady-esque comebacks at the end of some games. However, I see him playing like trash for the first 58 minutes. His completion % is under 60% and he threw way more interceptions than TD's. I'd prefer to wait till next year, none of these guys I have to have.

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sporkdevil (2/26/2008)
I think he is rated so highly because he had some Tom Brady-esque comebacks at the end of some games. However, I see him playing like trash for the first 58 minutes. His completion % is under 60% and he threw way more interceptions than TD's. I'd prefer to wait till next year, none of these guys I have to have.

He didn't throw more INT's than TD's...

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He threw 31 tds and 19 interceptions. Brohm is a better pick because he can be got in the 2nd round and had 30 tds and 10 interceptions. Why should the FO invest 40-50 million into someone who can not even read a college defense.

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Coach Smith says we want to control the lines. We want to run the football and have a strong front 4 on D so that we can attack on Def.

So in my eyes Coach Smith wants us to be a top 10 rushing team with a game managing QB who can throw the ball downfield to keep the Def honest. Give me the 7th Rushing and 15th Passing offense right now. Give me a strong Def and we're play-off bound. If that is the plan about running the football then I don't want to spend $50-60mil on a QB who may or may not pan out.

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vdclover (2/26/2008)
Everyone can agree that we need a QB, but the consensus is that we should pass on Ryan with the 3rd pick and pickup someone in the 2nd round, (Flacco,Henne, etc).

Alot of examples are given on how teams draft a QB in the 1st round and they turn out to be busts (Ryan Leaf,Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, etc).

But here is a question for those who believe we should go with a QB in the 2nd round

Over the last 10 years, who are/were the "good/great" QB's to come out of the 2nd round to backup this claim that we will get a QB just as good or better than Ryan in the 2nd round?

Drew Breeze is the only QB I can think of that fits this and he was the 1st pick in the second round.

The facts are that most of the starting QB's in the league are either 1st round picks or late(6-7th) round/non-drafted QB's.

It seems to me most scouts get it right about the quality of a QB deserving to be a 1st rnd selection.

There's a reason why the people who get paid to assess the talent say Ryan has all the tools to be a great QB and is rated quite higher than Henne, Flacco, & Woodson.

I'm not saying we should take Ryan, I'm just know that we need a quality long term QB and I'm not seeing alot of examples of where teams got their long term starting QB in the 2nd round.

QB's historically don't go in the middle rounds. Either a team thinks they will be great and wants to try to make them a franchise player, or they don't and just draft them later on for depth. The QB's themselves are what makes them great. There are just as many 1st round busts as starters. I think if a guy gets drafted in the 7th, then he knows he's got to go all out to stay on the team.

I believe that if you've got a chance to get a franchise pro-bowl player, you better pick the guy who's most likely to do that. Qb's are the LEAST likely of 1st round picks to do that. OT's and DT's are the most likely.

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If we draft Matt Ryan I will stay silent about it until he has a chance to prove himself at this level. They would have had to have seen something in him. Lets face it, who makes it and who doesn't isn't always as clear cut as looking at collegiate stats. I've never been good at QB prognostication, so I'll give TD (a former scout) the benefit of the doubt if that's who he chooses.

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matt_jennifer (2/26/2008)
He threw 31 tds and 19 interceptions. Brohm is a better pick because he can be got in the 2nd round and had 30 tds and 10 interceptions. Why should the FO invest 40-50 million into someone who can not even read a college defense.

All valid points, but we do not know yet which QB's will fall to the 2nd round.

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sporkdevil (2/26/2008)
I think he is rated so highly because he had some Tom Brady-esque comebacks at the end of some games. However, I see him playing like trash for the first 58 minutes. His completion % is under 60% and he threw way more interceptions than TD's. I'd prefer to wait till next year, none of these guys I have to have.

LMAO at your sig:w00t:

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1. you don't rate qbs based solely on their rookie season. whoever is asking for who is the most successful from last years draft, don't you think we should let jamarcus russell play a bit first?

2. here are the stats from the last 7 years on qbs taken in rounds 2-7. 60 qbs taken, only TWO qbs have truelly defined himself as a franchise qb (david garrard and drew brees).

think about that for a second. 60 qbs... 2 franchise guys. wow.

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If you're throwing 19 picks in your senior year in the ACC the mind boggles at the number you might throw in the NFL where the game and the defensive players move much much faster...

I don't think that Ryan is going to be a bust in the NFL like a Ryan Leaf or Heath Shuler but I don't see anything about him that warrants that #3 pick.....

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We can win with the QB's we have now..............providing we get them help. NFL Radio on Sirius radio said today the biggest busts in the past 10 years in the NFL draft were QB's picked in the 1st round. Yup. All busts. Most starting QB's today are later round picks.

I say we should concentrate on a ferocious pass rush first, then a great, quality O line second.................this year. We will know about our QB situation much better by the mid point of this coming season.

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joremari

1. you don't rate qbs based solely on their rookie season. whoever is asking for who is the most successful from last years draft, don't you think we should let jamarcus russell play a bit first?

2. here are the stats from the last 7 years on qbs taken in rounds 2-7. 60 qbs taken, only TWO qbs have truelly defined himself as a franchise qb (david garrard and drew brees).

think about that for a second. 60 qbs... 2 franchise guys. wow.

Interesting stat Joremari, I didn't think the numbers were that bad.

If you look a the 2004 class of qb's which included Eli, Rivers, and Big Ben all are first round picks and all are impact players on their teams and yes all are franchise qb's.

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grendel (2/26/2008)
joremari (2/26/2008)
bret farve had a very similar TD to INT ratio in college. he turned out just fine.

15 years ago, and the exception does not make the rule.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning each had a 3 to 1 TD /INT ratio their Senior year. They turned out ok too.

the point is, don't overlook ryan b/c he was the only person on his team with talent at a skill position. with no help, you are going to make mistakes trying to make things happen.

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Matt Ryan does have the stats, the mechanics, or the overall ability to be a 1st round pick; he especially doesn't need to be a #3 pick.

Chris Redman performed great with little to nothing towards the end of the year. Joey or Leftwich didn't seem to have the ability to throw 2 TDs in every game they played in. Redman's only bad game came against the #1 pass defenseand the #2 overall defense. We were facing that when our HC just ditched us with his offensive gameplan.

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the evil emperor (2/26/2008)
joremari

1. you don't rate qbs based solely on their rookie season. whoever is asking for who is the most successful from last years draft, don't you think we should let jamarcus russell play a bit first?

2. here are the stats from the last 7 years on qbs taken in rounds 2-7. 60 qbs taken, only TWO qbs have truelly defined himself as a franchise qb (david garrard and drew brees).

think about that for a second. 60 qbs... 2 franchise guys. wow.

Interesting stat Joremari, I didn't think the numbers were that bad.

If you look a the 2004 class of qb's which included Eli, Rivers, and Big Ben all are first round picks and all are impact players on their teams and yes all are franchise qb's.

2004 had more first round franchise qbs then all other years this decade in all other rounds combined.

you don't get franchise qbs in later rounds. we need a franchise qb.

anyone who says, "oh we will just draft our franchise qb in round 4" i ask, just look at the following link and decide for yourself. compare first round qbs to 2nd-7th round qbs. look at all the qbs taken in later rounds and see how many true franchise qbs there are.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft...on=Quarterbacks

maybe ryan ends up a failure, but we are better off taking a 50/50 chance then a 1/60 chance.

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The Falcon Ace (2/26/2008)
Matt Ryan does have the stats, the mechanics, or the overall ability to be a 1st round pick; he especially doesn't need to be a #3 pick.

Chris Redman performed great with little to nothing towards the end of the year. Joey or Leftwich didn't seem to have the ability to throw 2 TDs in every game they played in. Redman's only bad game came against the #1 pass defenseand the #2 overall defense. We were facing that when our HC just ditched us with his offensive gameplan.

against one of the worst defenses in the league (arizona) and against seattle's backups. what about when redman was trying to play against teams trying to win (mnf against n.o., @t.b.)

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grendel (2/26/2008)
the evil emperor (2/26/2008)
joremari

1. you don't rate qbs based solely on their rookie season. whoever is asking for who is the most successful from last years draft, don't you think we should let jamarcus russell play a bit first?

2. here are the stats from the last 7 years on qbs taken in rounds 2-7. 60 qbs taken, only TWO qbs have truelly defined himself as a franchise qb (david garrard and drew brees).

think about that for a second. 60 qbs... 2 franchise guys. wow.

Interesting stat Joremari, I didn't think the numbers were that bad.

If you look a the 2004 class of qb's which included Eli, Rivers, and Big Ben all are first round picks and all are impact players on their teams and yes all are franchise qb's.

Take that quote and explain Brian Brohm and Andre Woodson's much better Senior years.

stats don't tell the whole story. michael vick had horrible passing stats, but with him the falcons won.

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JBopper (2/26/2008)
sporkdevil (2/26/2008)
I think he is rated so highly because he had some Tom Brady-esque comebacks at the end of some games. However, I see him playing like trash for the first 58 minutes. His completion % is under 60% and he threw way more interceptions than TD's. I'd prefer to wait till next year, none of these guys I have to have.

LMAO at your sig:w00t:

Thanks, but I need to find a place with more pictures. He was burned by much worse WR's.

And sorry, I got the stats wrong. It's just far over my line of acceptable int:td ratio. In college, a ratio more like Brohm's is much better. Acceptable (in college, NFL too really), you should be throwing 2 td's for every interception, not 3 td's for every 2 picks. Because once he hits the NFL, just like all QB's, that is going to drop way off.

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ok, then explain to me how every talent scout and everyone who gets paid to do this all are wrong when they have ryan projected as the first qb to go?

how is it then that all these guys are wrong?

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