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gazoo

DeAngelo Hall has been part of the problem, not part of solution

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Bloodhoundz Reborn (2/24/2008)
If this franchise tries to model itself after the Pats then we are in for a letdown most likely. But I think this whole "we/Pats thing is overrated. Randy Moss was once known as a me guy, Corey Dillon was once known as a me guy. Winning cures everything it's simple as that.

Sorry but the way people have been posting lately talking about a Patriots atmosphere,I have a feeling that it will be some sad folks in a few years when they see how trying to like the Pats can go wrong if that's what we are trying to do.

You're not having a "feeling"...you're using common sense.

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Good post, I totally agree with everything you said and Deangelo is gonna be a free agent after next year anyways so we might as well get something for him before his contract is up anyways. I guarantee the cowboys would give up one of their two first rounders for him and maybe a future first or second rounder or another pick later in this draft.

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OMG. I never thought this would happen. I agree with Gazoo.

Although DHall was blessed with great talent, passion for the game and physical skills, his poor judgment, lack of self-control, inability to lead, and focus on himself vs. the team are why I will not be sorry to see him go. IMHO, DHall is solely responsible for creating this love/hate relationship among fans and probably among NFL personnel. Everytime he opens his mouth he causes fans to quickly jump into either the 'defend DHall' or 'defile DHall' camp, and in the final analysis I don't believe it's healthy for the team or the fan base.

During an incredibly stressful 2007 season for the team, with all of the off-field distractions, injuries, and the Petrino drama that were faced by the team, DHall had an opportunity to step up and demonstrate some team leadership and maturity both in the locker room and on the field. He could have been a positive voice for the team, offering encouragement and patience during the adversity and multiple player injuries. He had a chance to lead by example, and what did he do?

He repeatedly played the fool for the media, with sound bites that were generally focused on DHall the bufoon, and not the team.

In words of Groucho Marx: "He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."

and...in the long run, we can be a better TEAM without him.

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gritblitzer (2/24/2008)
It frustrates me that a great deal of this is true about Hall. It frustrates me because of the obvious skill he does have as a cornerback. It frustrates me because deep down I don't even really believe that Hall is a bad guy. It frustrates me (and should concern Hall himself) because he will probably never reach the level he could attain as a football player because of his refusal to mature.

It pains me and frustrates me because all of this drama that Hall creates himself will result in his talent and skills being utilized by another team.

Right on blood. Watch how fast DHall matures if he ends up on a well-coached winning franchise.

And about the Falcons' Pats modeling... I don't even see where that is happening. Don't the Pats generally try to aquire and retain high performing talent w/less regard to character issues? And then magically, don't those players that end up on the Pats end up STFU ing? It's early to say since we just underwent the leadership overhaul, but historically, that has not been the case in Atlanta.

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gazoo (2/24/2008)
I LOVE DeAngelo Halls play on the field most weeks in most years. He has all the ability in the world to be one of the best prue cover corners in the NFL. If we were a Super Bowl contender I would not want to trade him, but we are trying to build a team right now. The timing is a factor here, someting nobody is talking about. Yes, he may help a team like Dallas or the Giants RIGT NOW, but we are not anywhere near where those teams are.

My problem with DeAngelo has to do with his selfishness, self centeredness and 8 year old maturity level . There is one thing you cannot deny on the New England roster, the culture of "we". With rare exception, New England player are united and play as a team. This locker room unity is one of the secrets of long term success. Locker room unity is very underated by most fans, but not by our new GM Dimitroff.

Exhibit A:

Ultimate "Me player". Trying to pad his interception stats at the end of halftime on Hail Mary instead of hitting ball to ground as most team players would have done. He didn't have his teams back, he had his own back.

Exhibit B:

Media Mouth Piece- DeAngelos chronic media diarhea is and has been unaccaptable. I ma not talking about an isolated incident, I'm talking about a pattern of unprofessional demands and crying about him not getting what he thinks he should be getting. The latest "Falcons stabbed me in the back" blames the Falcons for his own behavoirs that put him up on the trading block i the first place. Hall can't even see his own part in all this. My opinion is that he has stabbed his teammates and coaches in the back several times, he needs to SHUT TF UP for once.

Exhibit C:

On field meltdowns. These are also a pattern that harm the team. When he gets mad, he loses it.....he acts like a little baby and becom,es completely out of control, screaming at the coaches, refs, drawing 15 yard penalties by the bunch. When he gets beat he comes completely unglued at times.

Exhibit D:

Inconsistent performance level. A $10 Mill per year player should NOT EVER take a game off, he took most of the 2006 season off and just coasted. He wants to be payed like a Super Star but he does not always play like one. The problem wasn;t just 2006, his play goes way up and down throughout a season.

Exhibit E:

Not always coachable. Being as selfish as he is, he tells the coaches what he will and won't do.....it's all about what's best for him and has little to do with what's best for his teammates.

I say that Hall is part of the problem, not part of the solution. We need to build a locker room culture here that is a "we" culture. I am al for letting this locker room cancer go becuase in the long run, that $10 Mill per year could be better spent. His ABILTY to play well is overshadowed by his inconsistency, high pay demands and locker room presence.

I agree too, Hes a great player, BUT, remember besides the knockdown he should have done with the saints, which he B.S. ed about it to Mora. Also he did well against Owens on the Eagles but got flat out torched by him against Dallas and got some of Owens mouthwash in his face too. :P

Who else has torched him, Hines Ward, Plexico Burress, and Chad Johnson. D-hall is a very good corner but hs not a total shutdown corner, like Champ Baily or Assante Samuel. He deserves his money but I think it would be better off if he had a change of scenery and a new team. IMO. ;)

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falconfoozball (2/24/2008)

Right on blood. Watch how fast DHall matures if he ends up on a well-coached winning franchise.

And about the Falcons' Pats modeling... I don't even see where that is happening. Don't the Pats generally try to aquire and retain high performing talent w/less regard to character issues? And then magically, don't those players that end up on the Pats end up STFU ing? It's early to say since we just underwent the leadership overhaul, but historically, that has not been the case in Atlanta.

I honestly think people are taking the word "rebuilding" too far, instead of rebuilding we should be renovating, which would mean keep your most talented players. People say D-Hall is a cancer, well he's only been known as a cancer after playing for Petrino, Petrino is the same man who left this franchise to go dance with Arkansas, Petrino is the same man who didn't respect the players, Petrino didn't even have enough respect to talk to the defensive players. Mora loved D-Hall(i know some are thinking he loved everyone lol), but Hall didn't have a problem with Mora, in College he didn't have a problem with Coach Beamer. The only problem he had was with Petrino. The Giants just won the Super Bowl, I could of sworn before the season Plaxico was known as a me guy, Strahan was a so called "cancer", but you know what they won and now they aren't called cancers and me guys.

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nativefalcon (2/24/2008)

I agree too, Hes a great player, BUT, remember besides the knockdown he should have done with the saints, which he B.S. ed about it to Mora. Also he did well against Owens on the Eagles but got flat out torched by him against Dallas and got some of Owens mouthwash in his face too. :P

Who else has torched him, Hines Ward, Plexico Burress, and Chad Johnson. D-hall is a very good corner but hs not a total shutdown corner, like Champ Baily or Assante Samuel. He deserves his money but I think it would be better off if he had a change of scenery and a new team. IMO. ;)

Plaxico didn't torch D-hall this year, Chad Johnson only torched D-Hall in a pre-season game but he didn't do it when it counted. You call Champ Bailey a shutdown corner, Champ was far from shutdown this year. Champ was torched a lot this year along with his partner Dre Bly.

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You're my boy Gazoo....

By why is everyone, taking your "opinions" as fact is beyond me....

And BTW, some guy name Ed Reed....is well known for being "selfish" (making plays at the end of the half) for the very same thing you accuse D-Hall of...:cool:

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NewFalcon (2/24/2008)
OMG. I never thought this would happen. I agree with Gazoo.

Although DHall was blessed with great talent, passion for the game and physical skills, his poor judgment, lack of self-control, inability to lead, and focus on himself vs. the team are why I will not be sorry to see him go. IMHO, DHall is solely responsible for creating this love/hate relationship among fans and probably among NFL personnel. Everytime he opens his mouth he causes fans to quickly jump into either the 'defend DHall' or 'defile DHall' camp, and in the final analysis I don't believe it's healthy for the team or the fan base.

During an incredibly stressful 2007 season for the team, with all of the off-flield distractions, injuries, and the Petrino drama that were faced by the team, DHall had an opportunity to step up and demonstrate some team leadership and maturity both in the locker room and on the field. He could have been a positive voice for the team, offering encouragement and patience during the adversity and multiple player injuries. He had a chance to lead by example, and what did he do?

He repeatedly played the fool for the media, with sound bites that were generally focused on DHall the bufoon, and not the team.

In words of Groucho Marx: "He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."

and...in the long run, we can be a better TEAM without him.

Great post. I was overjoyed when the Falcons got him and he's occasionally exceeded expectations. He could have really stepped up and showed great leadership, instead, he showed poor sportsmanship along with a bad attitude. Hall is not a leader but a follower on occasion and personally, I hope he goes somewhere with good leadership and stop challenging every coach and their decision-making processes that involve running a team.

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falconfansince66

Great post. I was overjoyed when the Falcons got him and he's occasionally exceeded expectations. He could have really stepped up and showed great leadership, instead, he showed poor sportsmanship along with a bad attitude. Hall is not a leader but a follower on occasion and personally, I hope he goes somewhere with good leadership and stop challenging every coach and their decision-making processes that involve running a team.

He didn't do that crap when Mora was here, and if you think Quitrino's decision making processes didn't NEED to be questioned then you're blind.

That said... w/this last lil bit in the media about not wanting to be here, unfortunately he has probably made his own bed.

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While Hall's antics and issues are majority his own creation, I don't believe the previous coaching staffs we have had here during his tenure have done much (if anything) to curb his problems.

When Hall let his mouth overload his ##### on the field, Mora would basically put his arm around his shoulder and give him the "It's OK, Son" speech instead of kicking him in the ##### and putting him on the bench.

As for Petrino, he didn't have the respect of any of the players, much less Hall.

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falconfoozball (2/24/2008)

He didn't do that crap when Mora was here, and if you think Quitrino's decision making processes didn't NEED to be questioned then you're blind.

That said... w/this last lil bit in the media about not wanting to be here, unfortunately he has probably made his own bed.

Yeah at this point we have to trade him, a bridge has been burned and heads have been turned.

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falconfoozball (2/24/2008)

He didn't do that crap when Mora was here, and if you think Quitrino's decision making processes didn't NEED to be questioned then you're blind.

That said... w/this last lil bit in the media about not wanting to be here, unfortunately he has probably made his own bed.

Mora let the players do what they wanted, it's no wonder we went from playoff team to not even a winning the record in his second year. Mora benefitted from having a team that was mainly built by his predecessor (Dan Reeves). It's all a shame that they fired the only coach that ever took this team to the Super Bowl. As for Mora's regime, they did make some decent draft pick decisions in acquiring players like Boley, R. White and getting talent such as Hall. It's too bad Mora couldn't instill some discipline with the team and it eventually cost him his job.

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Sorry Gazoo....you and I are usually on the same side of the argument, but I have to respectfully disagree...

You say he was a cancer, could you provide a link from anyone credible. And why would the new HC want to keep him...if that is so.

Why are "winning franchises (the ones that have won SB's) interested in acquiring him.

Also, isn't this the same argument for bringing Moss and TO here, but the reason you want to get rid of a D-Hall?

And for the last time, we are not Patriots. The Giants didn't win this year, trying to be like the Patriots.

As far as rebuilding, this team has been rebuilding since it arrived in Atl. Rebulding is a excuse given to the fanbase...to ignore the current results and expect better next year.

You are doing the exact thing that you accuse other posters of doing. When players are on their way out, they "weren't" worth the trouble anyway. As far as 2006 goes, I seriously doubt D-Hall was begging for the 10+ yard cushion that he was giving WRs.

Good post Gazoo. Rev, however, I'm going to tell you what you missed. The Giants won the superbowl because there weren't any 'me' players on the team to distract their QB. Is it a coincidence that after Tiki leaves and Shockley gets hurt that they all of a sudden start playing like a team? I think not.

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Bloodhoundz Reborn (2/24/2008)
If this franchise tries to model itself after the Pats then we are in for a letdown most likely. But I think this whole "we/Pats thing is overrated. Randy Moss was once known as a me guy, Corey Dillon was once known as a me guy. Winning cures everything it's simple as that.

First off, I appreciate your respectful different point of view than mine. I need to point out that the Pats didn;t start the foundation of their builoding with Randy Moss. This is the point that perhaps I didn;t make clear enough in my original post.

In my opinion, MeAngelo is a finishing piece, not a foundational building block. In my opinion, Moss is a finishing piece, not a foundational building block i would want here right now either.

The Falcons roster is going to be made up of a higher percentage of rookies and second year players. When these young, impressionable devloping talects come into the NFL, their peers can influence them.

The first thing a young Houston thinks when he sees DeAngelo go up for the interception instead of bat the ball down Houston makes a mental note of it and says that must be ok to do, I man, the veteran he looks up to DeAngelo did it, why shouldn;t Houston? Conversely, if Houston has a "we" player knock that ball down INSTEAD of go for the pick, healso makes a mental note of it.

This is why I say timing is critical. Moss did not go to a rebulding team with a high number of rookies , second and thiurd year developing players starting, Moss wen to a veteran roster that already had a functional locker room.

On a yound, rebuilding team, these developing players learn from vets...they learn good and bad.

Rambler likes this

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I have mixed feelings about this one. Part of me thinks that Hall is too good a talent to let go this easily, although I must admit that his attitude has always been a concern to me.

:laugh: at the biggest Vick agologist on these boards criticsing another player for being a "Me player", for inconsistent performances and for not always being coachable. The irony...

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Vicious (2/24/2008)

Good post Gazoo. Rev, however, I'm going to tell you what you missed. The Giants won the superbowl because there weren't any 'me' players on the team to distract their QB. Is it a coincidence that after Tiki leaves and Shockley gets hurt that they all of a sudden start playing like a team? I think not.

There winning streak was started while Shockley was playing. Strahan and Plaxico were known as "Cancers" and "me guys", now all of a sudden they aren't referred to as that.

Hmm I wonder why.

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ukfalc (2/24/2008)
I have mixed feelings about this one. Part of me thinks that Hall is too good a talent to let go this easily, although I must admit that his attitude has always been a concern to me.

:laugh: at the biggest Vick agologist on these boards criticsing another player for being a "Me player", for inconsistent performances and for not always being coachable. The irony...

Gazoo didn't mention Vick, you're the 1st one to bring him up. Vick stays on your mind I see.

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Good post Gazoo. Rev, however, I'm going to tell you what you missed. The Giants won the superbowl because there weren't any 'me' players on the team to distract their QB. Is it a coincidence that after Tiki leaves and Shockley gets hurt that they all of a sudden start playing like a team? I think not.

I'm pretty sure they were winning before Shockey went down...

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gazoo (2/24/2008)

First off, I appreciate your respectful different point of view than mine. I need to point out that the Pats didn;t start the foundation of their builoding with Randy Moss. This is the point that perhaps I didn;t make clear enough in my original post.

In my opinion, MeAngelo is a finishing piece, not a foundational building block. In my opinion, Moss is a finishing piece, not a foundational building block i would want here right now either.

The Falcons roster is going to be made up of a higher percentage of rookies and second year players. When these young, impressionable devloping talects come into the NFL, their peers can influence them.

The first thing a young Houston thinks when he sees DeAngelo go up for the interception instead of bat the ball down Houston makes a mental note of it and says that must be ok to do, I man, the veteran he looks up to DeAngelo did it, why shouldn;t Houston? Conversely, if Houston has a "we" player knock that ball down INSTEAD of go for the pick, healso makes a mental note of it.

This is why I say timing is critical. Moss did not go to a rebulding team with a high number of rookies , second and thiurd year developing players starting, Moss wen to a veteran roster that already had a functional locker room.

On a yound, rebuilding team, these developing players learn from vets...they learn good and bad.

I see your reasoning and those are some good points but I felt that we would be better off with him but that was before the latest drama. We most likely have to trade him right now with the problems between Him and FO.

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You can't fight this.. Gazoo is right on the money. D.Hall can be gone after this season and we are in the rebuilding stage, the best thing we can do is get something for him now that can contribute to rebuilding, rather than keep around a player who MUST win or he will be unhappy and complain.

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I get it UkFalc. It would be like me saying :laugh: @ the Vick haters wanting Hall off the team labeling him as uncoachable and inconsistant. The irony. Why is D Hall even being mentioned with Vick?

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