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Democrats and "taxing the rich"


capologist
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"The federal government now takes 33 percent of taxable income above $200,000 on a joint return and 35 percent of income above $357,700. Both Democrats would raise those tax rates to 36 percent and 39.6 percent, respectively."

Now, if a corporation pays it's taxes at the absurd corporate tax rate (34% and higher) and then an individual has to pay 36 to 40%, what kind of message does that send?

"Yes, because you are so successful we are going to take over a 1/3 of your money and dangerously close to half your money if you are really successful!" Basically, the American dream of becoming wealthy takes a huge hit with tax rates of that proportion.

Secondly, the only answer I've seen to help small businesses flourish is "low-cost" health care and a tax credit for it. How does that help if the business is successful and the owner has to take 40% of their money and pay it in taxes??? All it becomes at that point is a mind game since the business owner basically pays for the credit and the health care by the increase in taxes!

This just doesn't add up to me...

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What's your beef? I don't pay a dime more than you or anyone else on my income under $357K, and I don't mind paying uncle sam as much as folks did during the stagflation Days of Bill Clinton on the income OVER $200k if the money is going to go to items like health care rather than the war in Iraq.

Cap, for some reason you always get the brunt of my wrath, which is unfortunate, because I respect that you are committed to both Religion and Liberty. But I'm going to repeat what I told a FRIEND of mine last night who was "concerned" about Obama's tax increase:

QUIT WHINING!!!! Every Republican Candidate is worshipping at the alter of St. Reagan, and I have yet to see that Obama's tax plan is higher than his for 99% of the population!

And US folks in the top 1% would STILL be close to historical low rates. (3%!? The higher up you go, the closer to historical lows you are paying.

And we are more polorized in income than ever! So the rich have never been richer and have never been taxed less . . . . and people still complain when someone comes along who actually wants to solve some real economic problems that will ultimately benefit ALL of us! Especially those of us with kids who occasionally have go to the emergency room and don't like to wait six hours.

3% increase ABOVE $200,000? 4.6 for joint filers ABOVE $357k? And we don't pay a DIME more than we did under W for the FIRST $357k? All I can say is HURT ME BARACK! HURT ME!

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I'd break it up and quote it but since the quote feature is extremely messed up:

1. My beef has been clearly stated for YEARS! Why should successful people foot the bill for everyone else? I hope to one day be considered "successful" income-wise. I don't like what I see out of that.

2. A historical low rate would be 1909 and previous when there was NO INCOME TAX whatsoever!

3. The point about small businesses went without an answer. Because I plan on opening a small business in the near future, that concerns me greatly.

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I'm not worried as much about what Obama's tax raise does to my income (although in principle it matters), I'm worried about what it will do to the economy. At a critical juncture we're talking about taking money out of the economy through taxes on consumers, and punishing investment and savings by raising dividend and capital gains. It is this macro problem that could have real impact on incomes and economic growth.

And once again for the 1,000th time, if we stopped all spending on Iraq tomorrow, this years budget would STILL be nearly $300 Billion in the red. And now we want to talk about adding another entitlement to this government that is already bankrupt from the two other major entitlements (SS and Medicare)? It is simply the worst decision possible. But it buys you voters.

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And by the way Holy Moses, Obama's plan, as we've discussed before, is not limited to raising the marginal tax rates on the top 1%. It will most likely be families that make over $75k will see a bump in taxes. But I'd rather you refer back to the other thread and not hijack this one.

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capologist (2/23/2008)
Is the language really necessary? I find that term EXTREMELY offensive...

I'm sorry. I'm cranky tonight. I don't feel so great and we went out to dinner with some friends. Had reservations at 630 and at 700 we still were not seated. A group of more than twenty had taken over about half the resteraunt and after they finished their meal, they were holding a meeting while TONS of people waited. It was ugly. We left.

And I assume you're talking about the G.D. I'll edit.

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holymoses (2/23/2008)
capologist (2/23/2008)
Is the language really necessary? I find that term EXTREMELY offensive...

I'm sorry. I'm cranky tonight. I don't feel so great and we went out to dinner with some friends. Had reservations at 630 and at 700 we still were not seated. A group of more than twenty had taken over about half the resteraunt and after they finished their meal, they were holding a meeting while TONS of people waited. It was ugly. We left.

And I assume you're talking about the G.D. I'll edit.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about and the edit would be much appreciated.

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capologist (2/23/2008)
Is the language really necessary? I find that term EXTREMELY offensive...

BTW, I'm committed to Jesus Christ not religion.

The "economy" and committed to Jesus sounds like disengenous concerns at best: How would Christ feel about what the W. administration has done to our children? Is it ok to keep money flowing into OUR economy and burden our children with massive debt and interst?

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ATLBear (2/23/2008)
And by the way Holy Moses, Obama's plan, as we've discussed before, is not limited to raising the marginal tax rates on the top 1%. It will most likely be families that make over $75k will see a bump in taxes. But I'd rather you refer back to the other thread and not hijack this one.

That's a LIE. If you are Christian, you post a link that specifically supports your assertion.

I've got my proof: Cap posted it!

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holymoses (2/23/2008)

The "economy" and committed to Jesus sounds like disengenous concerns at best: How would Christ feel about what the W. administration has done to our children? Is it ok to keep money flowing into OUR economy and burden our children with massive debt and interst?

You really are trying to step all in it aren't you?

1. My commitment to Christ is far from disingenuous and to suggest it flies in the face of you saying you "respect my commitment". I truly hope your wording just sucked and this is not what you meant.

2. I won't speak for Jesus but I'll speak for me and remind you yet again, that I'm not, nor have I been, a W. supporter. I'm a LIBERTARIAN who has NEVER voted for W. (not to mention a Dave Ramsey-ite who absolutely hates any kind of debt)

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holymoses (2/23/2008)
ATLBear (2/23/2008)
And by the way Holy Moses, Obama's plan, as we've discussed before, is not limited to raising the marginal tax rates on the top 1%. It will most likely be families that make over $75k will see a bump in taxes. But I'd rather you refer back to the other thread and not hijack this one.

That's a LIE. If you are Christian, you post a link that specifically supports your assertion.

I've got my proof: Cap posted it!

Hyperbole much? I bumped the other thread for you to review again.
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capologist (2/23/2008)
holymoses (2/23/2008)

I've got my proof: Cap posted it!

Not necessarily, I haven't seen anything saying how those below $200,000 are treated. I'd like to see it though...

They ain't touching it. That's why your article talking about the top 1 percent.

don't you think they'd be talking about the rest if those rates were going up to? I've looked all over and there's NOTHING that indicates the rates go up for anyone else. The only W cuts he'd roll back are for the top 1 percent (highest marginal rate only)

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holymoses (2/23/2008)
capologist (2/23/2008)
holymoses (2/23/2008)

I've got my proof: Cap posted it!

Not necessarily, I haven't seen anything saying how those below $200,000 are treated. I'd like to see it though...

They ain't touching it. That's why your article talking about the top 1 percent.

don't you think they'd be talking about the rest if those rates were going up to? I've looked all over and there's NOTHING that indicates the rates go up for anyone else. The only W cuts he'd roll back are for the top 1 percent (highest marginal rate only)

They ALL expire and roll back to pre cut levels in 2010. You have to propose new legislation if you're not going to extend the existing legislation. In reviewing Obama's tax plan he doesn't address the marginal tax rates at ALL. What he does do is discuss the fact of new deductions and credits, which his "government math" may somehow equate it to an equivalent amount, but it doesn't add up.

Furthermore, capital gains and dividend tax increases cross all income levels that have any savings or investment, particular retirees.

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Call me crazy, but if you make more money and you pay a higher tax percentage, aren't you still making more money?;)

If you paid in more based on what you made, wouldn't it benefit you. The workers you hire would be healthier and more productive.

Is there really a need too be excessive in the luxuries one has?

Why can't everyone share the wealth and educate those that need it to become a society where everyone can take care of themselves ( except the handicapped).

I know this is a lot of questions, but I lack the tongue to make an arguement.

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ty:

1. They already pay almost 75 to 80% of the taxes as it is, why should they continue to pay more and more and more? When is enough enough especially when we got along just fine without an income tax for most of this country's history?

2. Is there really a need to penalize those that are successful?

3. Sharing the wealth = socialism. Sharing the wealth is one of the reasons why we are where we are. The more you "handout" the less people feel they need to work for things and feel "entitled" to them.

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holymoses (2/23/2008)
He supports legislation that maintains the tax cuts. . . . keep researching!

And the material I read indicated that only the highest income levels would have the capital gains increase (back to that communist, Ronald Reagan, levels.)

If you know the link then just post it. He's your candidate not mine...

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Here:

To ensure that we are fiscally responsible, we'll gain revenue by shutting down corporate loopholes and tax havens. We'll also turn the page on an approach that gives repeated tax cuts to the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans even though they don't need them and didn't ask for them. We've lost the balance between work and wealth. I will close the carried interest loophole, and adjust the top dividends and capital gains rate to something closer to - but no greater than - the rates Ronald Reagan set in 1986.

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capologist (2/23/2008)
ty:

1. They already pay almost 75 to 80% of the taxes as it is, why should they continue to pay more and more and more? When is enough enough especially when we got along just fine without an income tax for most of this country's history?

2. Is there really a need to penalize those that are successful?

3. Sharing the wealth = socialism. Sharing the wealth is one of the reasons why we are where we are. The more you "handout" the less people feel they need to work for things and feel "entitled" to them.

They control an incredible percentage of the money!!!

Like I said, I don't feel remotely penalized. If you feel penalized when you get there, let me know!

Ronald Reagan: Socialist

George H.W. Bush: Socialist

George W. Bush: IDIOT

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capologist (2/23/2008)
ty:

1. They already pay almost 75 to 80% of the taxes as it is, why should they continue to pay more and more and more? When is enough enough especially when we got along just fine without an income tax for most of this country's history?

Don't they make 75 to 80%?

2. Is there really a need to penalize those that are successful?

It's not a penalty when it benefits.

3. Sharing the wealth = socialism. Sharing the wealth is one of the reasons why we are where we are. The more you "handout" the less people feel they need to work for things and feel "entitled" to them.

I can understand how that can be misconstrued, but if they are educated wouldn't that fix the need?

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ty down (2/23/2008)
capologist (2/23/2008)
ty:

1. They already pay almost 75 to 80% of the taxes as it is, why should they continue to pay more and more and more? When is enough enough especially when we got along just fine without an income tax for most of this country's history?

Don't they make 75 to 80%?

2. Is there really a need to penalize those that are successful?

It's not a penalty when it benefits.

3. Sharing the wealth = socialism. Sharing the wealth is one of the reasons why we are where we are. The more you "handout" the less people feel they need to work for things and feel "entitled" to them.

I can understand how that can be misconstrued, but if they are educated wouldn't that fix the need?

The top 1% pay nearly 40% of all taxes and make 19% of the income.
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