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Duke lacrosse players sue school and city


silentbob1272
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I hope they get so much that the idiot professors who signed the outrage petition against them are laid off or have their salaries cut in half to help recover from the squalor that Duke is left in. The only thing I do not agree with is the "accuser" is not named in the suit, she should have two thirds of the cash she earns from every bj she gives garnished for the rest of her miserable life, not sure how it would be done, but it should be done.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...&show_article=1

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XLDenaliReturns (2/21/2008)
yeah- why aren't they suing the lying whore who put them in that situation anyway? didn't she get a book deal or some TV money or something? oh well, she probably had to give all the money to her "manager".

Probably because she doesn't have enough money for them to get an equal cut apiece if they should happen to win their lawsuit.

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Yeah...I'm not a fan of the way so many on the Duke campus simply hung those boys out to dry...I agree that the stripper who lied needs to be named in the suit too, and hopefully Nifong was named personally...in the end, this is a step by step, instruction manual on how not to pursue a rape investigation. Rape is a serious accusation...and all sides need to be listened too, and taken into consideration before the court of public opinion cranks up full tilt...If I were those boys I'd have to name various members of the media in my lawsuit too...it's amazing how several high profile, big name media members were oh so quick to jump on the stripper's bandwagon, without first getting the whole story. In the end, they'll claim that they were misled by the prosecution, and that's why they made the choice that they made...but IMO, it's still reprehensible. As a human being, we're free to believe what we want, and form our own opinions, based on whatever the **** we want to base it on...but when you have a job in the media, justice system, or teaching at a major university, your personal opinions about highly sensitive matters should remain just that...personal opinions...;)

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XLDenaliReturns (2/21/2008)
yeah- why aren't they suing the lying whore who put them in that situation anyway? didn't she get a book deal or some TV money or something? oh well, she probably had to give all the money to her "manager".

As I recall it, the other "stripper" was the one with the manager, though to her credit she did say the accuser was full of ##### from the beginning, she was looking to make a quick buck off a huge national story. I think the accuser was not named because she has no money...to go along with her having no morality, honesty, common sense, math skills or a soul.

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Statick (2/21/2008)
XLDenaliReturns (2/21/2008)
yeah- why aren't they suing the lying whore who put them in that situation anyway? didn't she get a book deal or some TV money or something? oh well, she probably had to give all the money to her "manager".

Probably because she doesn't have enough money for them to get an equal cut apiece if they should happen to win their lawsuit.

the media is a great point, and throw in Malik Zulu Shabazz and the new Black Panther Party for leaving skid marks in their rush to come down, convict the players through the media, and incite an entire community against them with threats against officials should they not obtain a conviction, then to cap it off haul azz just as quickly away and never offer an apology or retraction when their brain dead rhetoric was proven false,

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Statick (2/21/2008)
jdu00743 (2/21/2008)
Unfortunately, these kids suffered because of racism and politics.

And not just Nifong's politics. A prestigious school like Duke wanted to uphold their moral standing in the media, which explains why their own faculty went so hard against them.

Yep, plus Duke was just scared of being labeled in a negative manner by all the black activists.

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the media is a great point, and throw in Malik Zulu Shabazz and the new Black Panther Party for leaving skid marks in their rush to come down, convict the players through the media, and incite an entire community against them with threats against officials should they not obtain a conviction, then to cap it off haul azz just as quickly away and never offer an apology or retraction when their brain dead rhetoric was proven false,

Believe me, they didn't have alot of local support when they came down here with that BS.

My eyes rolled back in my head when I saw the Panthers show up in Durham.

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Statick (2/21/2008)

the media is a great point, and throw in Malik Zulu Shabazz and the new Black Panther Party for leaving skid marks in their rush to come down, convict the players through the media, and incite an entire community against them with threats against officials should they not obtain a conviction, then to cap it off haul azz just as quickly away and never offer an apology or retraction when their brain dead rhetoric was proven false,

Believe me, they didn't have alot of local support when they came down here with that BS.

My eyes rolled back in my head when I saw the Panthers show up in Durham.

They may not have had a ton of local support, but theirs, and the words of others like Sharpton and Jackson, definitely drew national attention, in doing so, "poisoned the well" against those players from Duke, long before the truth was even sought out by Nifong...:crazy:

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Ton80Kid (2/21/2008)
Statick (2/21/2008)

the media is a great point, and throw in Malik Zulu Shabazz and the new Black Panther Party for leaving skid marks in their rush to come down, convict the players through the media, and incite an entire community against them with threats against officials should they not obtain a conviction, then to cap it off haul azz just as quickly away and never offer an apology or retraction when their brain dead rhetoric was proven false,

Believe me, they didn't have alot of local support when they came down here with that BS.

My eyes rolled back in my head when I saw the Panthers show up in Durham.

They may not have had a ton of local support, but theirs, and the words of others like Sharpton and Jackson, definitely drew national attention, in doing so, "poisoned the well" against those players from Duke, long before the truth was even sought out by Nifong...:crazy:

That's the media for you.

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Ton80Kid (2/21/2008)
and hopefully Nifong was named personally...

They 3 who were accused filed a gigantic lawsuit against him and the city of Durham. My recollection is that they agreed not to file a lawsuit against the university. Not long after their suit was filed against Nifong, he filed for bankruptcy.

I hope they all squeeze every penny out of Nifong, the university, and the city of Durham for what they went through.

And I agree about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. There was a topic here a few months ago about why people don't like them. This is the PERFECT example of why I don't.

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silentbob1272 (2/21/2008)
I hope they get so much that the idiot professors who signed the outrage petition against them are laid off or have their salaries cut in half to help recover from the squalor that Duke is left in. The only thing I do not agree with is the "accuser" is not named in the suit, she should have two thirds of the cash she earns from every bj she gives garnished for the rest of her miserable life, not sure how it would be done, but it should be done.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...&show_article=1

Its really annoying to hear 99% of the country blabbering about something they know very little about. Have you actually bothered to read the listening statement? It was not offensive if you have any clue about the dynamic on campus and it wasn't even directed at the Lax guys or their situation. Its really sad how people comment on the situation when they only know what little came out through ESPN and other media outlets. I'll tell you, as a person that was a student during the whole situation the media hasn't given you the whole story and some portions have been blown way out of proportion.

In fact, theres only one quote that mentions the lax situation and its from a student.

The one professor that one of them has a case against is the one that slashed one of the player's grade in her class because he was on the team.

Other than that they have no case, Duke didn't owe them anything. If they get any money it'll be because Duke wants to settle and get this over with.

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Saturday (2/21/2008)
Ton80Kid (2/21/2008)
and hopefully Nifong was named personally...

They 3 who were accused filed a gigantic lawsuit against him and the city of Durham. My recollection is that they agreed not to file a lawsuit against the university. Not long after their suit was filed against Nifong, he filed for bankruptcy.

I hope they all squeeze every penny out of Nifong, the university, and the city of Durham for what they went through.

And I agree about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. There was a topic here a few months ago about why people don't like them. This is the PERFECT example of why I don't.

Please explain to me how its Duke's fault that those three kids BROKE A SCHOOL RULE (yes, there's a rule that prohibits student groups, the lax team being a student group, from hiring strippers) and got into a screwed up situation?

Explain to me why Duke should owe them anything. It is not the school's job to function as a parent. When a regular student gets into trouble the school offers you suggestions for picking a local attorney and that's it. Why should this be different?

On top of that, we aren't even talking about the guys that actually were accused...we're talking about the other 30 guys who simply had to be in a lineup and give DNA. Blame the police but don't blame the school that your TEAMMATES caused you to get dragged into it.

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btrain5489 (2/21/2008)
silentbob1272 (2/21/2008)
I hope they get so much that the idiot professors who signed the outrage petition against them are laid off or have their salaries cut in half to help recover from the squalor that Duke is left in. The only thing I do not agree with is the "accuser" is not named in the suit, she should have two thirds of the cash she earns from every bj she gives garnished for the rest of her miserable life, not sure how it would be done, but it should be done.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...&show_article=1

Its really annoying to hear 99% of the country blabbering about something they know very little about. Have you actually bothered to read the listening statement? It was not offensive if you have any clue about the dynamic on campus and it wasn't even directed at the Lax guys or their situation. Its really sad how people comment on the situation when they only know what little came out through ESPN and other media outlets. I'll tell you, as a person that was a student during the whole situation the media hasn't given you the whole story and some portions have been blown way out of proportion.

In fact, theres only one quote that mentions the lax situation and its from a student.

The one professor that one of them has a case against is the one that slashed one of the player's grade in her class because he was on the team.

Other than that they have no case, Duke didn't owe them anything. If they get any money it'll be because Duke wants to settle and get this over with.

You know what is even more annoying? An arrogant and completely ignorant Duke alum sticking up for these 88 morons when he has no idea what he is talking about, despite his delusions to the contray.

Here another petition started at your campus by fellow students genius

http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/2007/...pond-to-88.html

Since you do not seem capable of doing your on research (your degree seems to be another example of Duke's failings) here are a few excerpts....certainly a few more example the the solitary one that you claimed;

For those who would argue their ad has been mischaracterized we offer the following excerpts, which leave no doubt as to the material it contained

Students are shouting and whispering about what happened to this young woman&

If something like this happened to me& what would be used against me my clothing? Where I was?

No one is really talking about how to keep this young woman herself central to this conversation, how to keep her humanity before us&

To the students speaking individually and to the protestors making collective noise, thank you for not waiting and for making yourselves heard.

Some of the Group of 88 went even further in their ill-begotten rush to judgment. Some professors are alleged to have maligned lacrosse players in their courses; Professor Kim Curtis is alleged to have failed a student (with a 3.5 GPA) simply because he was a member of the team.

Other professors have made some truly shocking public statements, such as

Prof. Houston Baker s claim of Young, white, violent, drunken men among us - implicitly boasted by our athletic directors and administrators - have injured lives, and his remark that the lacrosse team may well feel they can claim innocence and sport their disgraced jerseys on campus, safe under the cover of silent whiteness. But where is the black woman who their violence and raucous witness injured for life? Will she ever sleep well again?

Prof. Mark Anthony Neal s claim that, "Regardless of what happened inside of 610 N. Buchanan Blvd, the young men were hoping to consume something that they felt that a black woman uniquely possessed.

Prof. Grant Farred s claim, in response to Duke students registering to vote, that, What Duke students becoming Durham citizens does is displace the problem of racism from the lacrosse team and the university to Durham's political system.

Prof. Wahneema Lubiano s statement after the arrests of Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty that people can t imagine that the woman could have made a false rape allegation.

President Brodhead has yet to come forward and defend his students against the assaults launched by his own faculty.

WE CALL UPON PRESIDENT BRODHEAD TO FINALLY STAND UP FOR HIS STUDENTS

Like I said these are just a few examples, if you want more....find em yourself, they are easy enough, I would guess even for you junior.

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One more article to add...worth reading

http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/2006/...d-response.html

The Group of 88's Three-D Response

The low point of the faculty response to the lacrosse affair came on April 6, when 88 members of the arts and sciences faculty along with 16 departments and programs endorsed a public statement denouncing the lacrosse players. The statement unequivocally asserted that something happened to the accuser. The signatories committed themselves to turning up the volume while saying thank you to campus protesters who had branded the players rapists and distributed wanted posters around campus. And the statement promised that the Group s crusade won t end with what the police say or the court decides.

In the history of American higher education, I cannot think of another example in which such a sizable segment of an institution s faculty exhibited such reckless disregard for the welfare of their own institution s students. The rush-to-judgment public denunciation created an image, both in Durham and nationally, that Duke s own professors believed that a rape occurred ironically, a few days before the DNA tests that Mike Nifong had promised would immediately rule out any innocent people all came back negative.

In the more than seven months since the Group of 88 s statement appeared, not a single professor has retracted his or her signature from the document. But the Group s actions have come under increasing criticism. A cutting op-ed by the Arizona Republic s Doug MacEachern noted that whatever the ultimate judgment in this case, the Duke faculty has acted monstrously, with the actions of The Group of 88 . . . the worst. Members of a profession that is dedicated, supposedly, to the search for truth, the Group of 88 instead served their personal, hyperpolitical judgments about social oppression and proclaimed their indifference to the real guilt or innocence of their own students.

Of the Group members that Duke Chronicle reporter Rob Copeland contacted for an article that appeared last Tuesday, many refused to comment. Those who did reply fell into three categories: defensiveness, denial, and defiance.

Defensiveness. Sherman James, a professor of public policy, told Copeland, I stand by my right to express my opinion, other than that I don t have anything to say. I think everyone should have the opportunity to express an opinion.

To my knowledge, no one has ever said that James, or anyone else at Duke, should not have the opportunity to express an opinion. The criticism has focused on the opinion that James and 87 of his colleagues expressed.

The academy is supposed to involve the life of the mind. Academic freedom envisions an atmosphere in which professors first express their ideas and then modify their viewpoints based on informed criticism. To James, however, it appears that professors should simply have the right to make any statement however outrageous and then never have to defend its content.

Does James adopt this approach in other intellectual matters as well? Or, perhaps, does he normally operate in an environment of academic groupthink, where like-minded colleagues never challenge his basic views?

Denial. Alice Kaplan, professor of literature and Romance studies, claimed that the statement was about the climate on campus, it wasn t taking a position on the case. There s nothing in the statement that says anyone is guilty or innocent.

It appears that Kaplan either never read the statement or has forgotten its contents. After all, the statement did assert, as fact, that something happened to the accuser which suggested that a crime occurred and gave thanks to those who publicly deemed the players guilty. Many people, I suspect, would consider a group of faculty saying thank you to protesters who gathered outside one lacrosse player s house and shouted, It s Sunday morning, time to confess as taking a position on the case.

To the Chronicle, Kaplan offered a novel rationale for joining the Group of 88: I signed the statement, said she, because I care about Duke and I care about the students and the experiences they re having.

Kaplan s colleague, Michael Gustafson, replied that he

would have a better time accepting her statement if any one of the people who signed that document had spoken out against the death threats hurled at our students, against calls for our students to be ...prosecuted whether it happened or not. It would be justice for things that happened in the past, as reported in Newsweek. But instead, there was silence - the same kind the faculty that supported that ad railed against. This is still a social disaster, but the inability to see it in its fullness has left us even more polarized than before.

It appears that the only students about whose experiences Kaplan cares are those who share her worldview. She has shown little evidence that she care about the students who are currently subjected to Nifong s separate-but-equal justice system.

Defiance. Karla Holloway, a professor of English, has been among the most vitriolic members of the Group: she told the Chronicle that she would sign the petition again in a heartbeat.

Such defiance stunned a Duke alumnus from Australia, who noted that while back in the spring the famous professors may have believed that a rape did indeed occur, . . . the way they behave now, when the truth is known, must be known even to them, cannot be excused in any imaginable way. They do not care about the students they have vilified. They are too small to say I m sorry .

As she denounced the lacrosse players in April, Holloway now denounces her critics, without ever addressing their arguments:

She claimed to have received often vicious, frequently racist and generally poorly composed e-mails criticizing her for joining the Group of 88 though it appears that she didn t produce any of these e-mails for the Chronicle.

She charged that critics displaced the actual content of the ad for the fiction of their own meagerly articulated agendas but never identified precisely how critics performed this task.

She fumed that those who find their life s blood in producing unending streams of blogged nonsense are probably better left to these subaltern spaces thus rationalizing her decision to avoid responding to those who have criticized the Group of 88.

In the Chronicle comment section, a Duke parent rendered judgment on the Group of 88. Duke s reputation, the parent wrote, is not being ruined by a group of teenagers hosting a party, but by the continued, unforgivable behavior of the professors and administration. Who wants to send their kids to a college that absolutely refuses to stand up for the civil rights of their students? After all the evidence now known, they STILL stand by their statement - just mind boggling.

Indeed.

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silentbob1272 (2/21/2008)
btrain5489 (2/21/2008)
silentbob1272 (2/21/2008)
I hope they get so much that the idiot professors who signed the outrage petition against them are laid off or have their salaries cut in half to help recover from the squalor that Duke is left in. The only thing I do not agree with is the "accuser" is not named in the suit, she should have two thirds of the cash she earns from every bj she gives garnished for the rest of her miserable life, not sure how it would be done, but it should be done.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...&show_article=1

Its really annoying to hear 99% of the country blabbering about something they know very little about. Have you actually bothered to read the listening statement? It was not offensive if you have any clue about the dynamic on campus and it wasn't even directed at the Lax guys or their situation. Its really sad how people comment on the situation when they only know what little came out through ESPN and other media outlets. I'll tell you, as a person that was a student during the whole situation the media hasn't given you the whole story and some portions have been blown way out of proportion.

In fact, theres only one quote that mentions the lax situation and its from a student.

The one professor that one of them has a case against is the one that slashed one of the player's grade in her class because he was on the team.

Other than that they have no case, Duke didn't owe them anything. If they get any money it'll be because Duke wants to settle and get this over with.

You know what is even more annoying? An arrogant and completely ignorant Duke alum sticking up for these 88 morons when he has no idea what he is talking about, despite his delusions to the contray.

Here another petition started at your campus by fellow students genius

http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/2007/...pond-to-88.html

Since you do not seem capable of doing your on research (your degree seems to be another example of Duke's failings) here are a few excerpts....certainly a few more example the the solitary one that you claimed;

For those who would argue their ad has been mischaracterized we offer the following excerpts, which leave no doubt as to the material it contained

Students are shouting and whispering about what happened to this young woman&

If something like this happened to me& what would be used against me my clothing? Where I was?

No one is really talking about how to keep this young woman herself central to this conversation, how to keep her humanity before us&

To the students speaking individually and to the protestors making collective noise, thank you for not waiting and for making yourselves heard.

Some of the Group of 88 went even further in their ill-begotten rush to judgment. Some professors are alleged to have maligned lacrosse players in their courses; Professor Kim Curtis is alleged to have failed a student (with a 3.5 GPA) simply because he was a member of the team.

Other professors have made some truly shocking public statements, such as

Prof. Houston Baker s claim of Young, white, violent, drunken men among us - implicitly boasted by our athletic directors and administrators - have injured lives, and his remark that the lacrosse team may well feel they can claim innocence and sport their disgraced jerseys on campus, safe under the cover of silent whiteness. But where is the black woman who their violence and raucous witness injured for life? Will she ever sleep well again?

Prof. Mark Anthony Neal s claim that, "Regardless of what happened inside of 610 N. Buchanan Blvd, the young men were hoping to consume something that they felt that a black woman uniquely possessed.

Prof. Grant Farred s claim, in response to Duke students registering to vote, that, What Duke students becoming Durham citizens does is displace the problem of racism from the lacrosse team and the university to Durham's political system.

Prof. Wahneema Lubiano s statement after the arrests of Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty that people can t imagine that the woman could have made a false rape allegation.

President Brodhead has yet to come forward and defend his students against the assaults launched by his own faculty.

WE CALL UPON PRESIDENT BRODHEAD TO FINALLY STAND UP FOR HIS STUDENTS

Like I said these are just a few examples, if you want more....find em yourself, they are easy enough, I would guess even for you junior.

I asked if you'd bothered to read the listening statement and you give me a link to KC Johnson's blog (surprise, I do know who KC Johnson but I don't know anything about the situation...aside from being there.)...umm ok, I guess you answered my question.

As for who did their research. I have no research to do. I WAS THERE. I don't have to scour the internet for what some random blogger that WASN'T ACTUALLY THERE says about the situation. I lived in the situation and lived with people that also experienced it firsthand. You seriously call reading someone's blog research? KC Johnson didn't live in Durham and didn't attend Duke while this was an issue. KC Johnson has NO affiliation with Duke so it's not like you just pointed out some insider source. If you want to talk about someone's education failing them I'd say your school is the one in trouble or where ever it was that you learned that a second hand account is more valuable than a primary source. Read the freaking ad THEN comment on what you think it says.

MOST of the group of 88 simply said that there are issues on campus and that they hear the students' concerns. THAT is what the listening statement was about. It was simply a hey, we hear you. Then idiots like KC Johnson went and ran in some totally different direction. Then people like yourself bring it up again and again citing the writing of aforementioned idiots that sit behind their monitors writing their blogs based on the second hand information they get from other bloggers and media outlets.

The Chronicle

That is a link to Duke's student newspaper if you actually want to do some research the Listening Statement is probably in the archives.

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As a lacrosse player, I followed this from the very beginning. Its sickening. The school didn't even give them a chance, they canceled the season and fired one of the best head coaches in the nation before they even got INDICTED. They didn't even wait for an indictment, much less to see if they were guilty. Can you imagine the outrage if Duke ended the basketball season under the same circumstances?

Duke is incredibly lucky that the NCAA decided to cover for them and give their players an extra year of eligibility. They kicked these guys to the curb before anything even happened.

There arent even any excuses... the stripper had a criminal record, changed her story multiple times to the police, gave a timetable that was physically impossible, showed no signs of rape, and had slept with several other men recently. HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THAT?

These kids were getting protesters at their doors every day, death threats, teachers holding open grudges, and the university did nothing. The media were depicting them as stuck up rich white boys (a lacrosse stereotype that hasn't been true for 20 years yet still remains).

Im usually against these massive judgments against big corporations to teach a lesson. But I hope they bleed Duke dry. I hope every single teacher that rushed to judgment gets canned, I hope the president and athletic director get canned, and I hope that the school has to pay so much that they have to start cutting back on programs.Universities are supposed to stick up for their students, not treat them like criminals before they are even charged.

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lax32 (2/21/2008)
As a lacrosse player, I followed this from the very beginning. Its sickening. The school didn't even give them a chance, they canceled the season and fired one of the best head coaches in the nation before they even got INDICTED. They didn't even wait for an indictment, much less to see if they were guilty. Can you imagine the outrage if Duke ended the basketball season under the same circumstances?

Duke is incredibly lucky that the NCAA decided to cover for them and give their players an extra year of eligibility. They kicked these guys to the curb before anything even happened.

There arent even any excuses... the stripper had a criminal record, changed her story multiple times to the police, gave a timetable that was physically impossible, showed no signs of rape, and had slept with several other men recently. HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THAT?

These kids were getting protesters at their doors every day, death threats, teachers holding open grudges, and the university did nothing. The media were depicting them as stuck up rich white boys (a lacrosse stereotype that hasn't been true for 20 years yet still remains).

Im usually against these massive judgments against big corporations to teach a lesson. But I hope they bleed Duke dry. I hope every single teacher that rushed to judgment gets canned, I hope the president and athletic director get canned, and I hope that the school has to pay so much that they have to start cutting back on programs.Universities are supposed to stick up for their students, not treat them like criminals before they are even charged.

1) Not one decision was made by one person alone in this whole thing so saying Brodhead and Alleva should be fired is stupid. Brodhead and Alleva made decisions that were approved by the board of directors at the school. A board of directors that has to keep the best interest of the entire school in mind, not the best interest of a few students.

2) Your timetable is off. Duke didn't immediately cancel the lacrosse season. They suspended it initially, waited a few weeks then decided that continuing the season would be inviting a circus that the school didn't want to be a part of and so they canceled the season. You, an outsider, didn't know the thought process for how it happened because the media outlets didn't know either. I wish I still had my emails from 2006 because while the media and everyone on the outside may think Brodhead was randomly doing this and that, everyone that was a student has actually seen the explanation of why and how things happened.

3) Pressler was 'excused' not simply because of the lax situation but due to multiple situations that involved the lacrosse team. Between the allegations coming out and Pressler being encouraged to leave our president ordered an investigation of the lacrosse team's actions. The investigation wasn't limited to the night of the supposed rape but I think it covered much of Pressler's tenure. What did this turn up? The lacrosse team wasn't exactly composed of guys that should be called models for well behaved students. Once again, you, an outsider, didn't hear about the rest of it because the other situations occurred before the rape allegations.

4) Those (those being the ones that are currently suing Duke) kids did NOT have protesters at their doors every day or even one day. There was only ONE student led protest on campus. When outside organizations wanted to protest on campus Duke took a break from "doing nothing" to let those organizations know that their protests would not be allowed to enter campus grounds. In fact, the only ones consistently at their doors were the news crews/trucks that became a fixture on campus for months. THESE kids, if they did receive death threats how is that the University's fault? As I said earlier, you're right about ONE professor that held the situation against members of the team and as I said earlier, that professor should be disciplined for unfair grading practices.

5) It is not the university's job to stand up for you should you get into legal trouble. Its in the student handbook that the University WILL NOT function in the place of your parents. You sign something acknowledging the fact that you understand this and other rules before you show up on campus. Aside from giving suggestions/recommendations for obtaining legal counsel (a courtesy, not their responsibility) the university does not enter into legal situations on ANY student's behalf. The lax players were students and the university, fairly, treated them as they would any other students.

There's a reason that many people who were outraged by the way that the university handled the situation weren't actually on campus and aren't even affiliated with Duke...

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btrain5489 (2/21/2008)
lax32 (2/21/2008)
As a lacrosse player, I followed this from the very beginning. Its sickening. The school didn't even give them a chance, they canceled the season and fired one of the best head coaches in the nation before they even got INDICTED. They didn't even wait for an indictment, much less to see if they were guilty. Can you imagine the outrage if Duke ended the basketball season under the same circumstances?

Duke is incredibly lucky that the NCAA decided to cover for them and give their players an extra year of eligibility. They kicked these guys to the curb before anything even happened.

There arent even any excuses... the stripper had a criminal record, changed her story multiple times to the police, gave a timetable that was physically impossible, showed no signs of rape, and had slept with several other men recently. HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THAT?

These kids were getting protesters at their doors every day, death threats, teachers holding open grudges, and the university did nothing. The media were depicting them as stuck up rich white boys (a lacrosse stereotype that hasn't been true for 20 years yet still remains).

Im usually against these massive judgments against big corporations to teach a lesson. But I hope they bleed Duke dry. I hope every single teacher that rushed to judgment gets canned, I hope the president and athletic director get canned, and I hope that the school has to pay so much that they have to start cutting back on programs.Universities are supposed to stick up for their students, not treat them like criminals before they are even charged.

1) Not one decision was made by one person alone in this whole thing so saying Brodhead and Alleva should be fired is stupid. Brodhead and Alleva made decisions that were approved by the board of directors at the school. A board of directors that has to keep the best interest of the entire school in mind, not the best interest of a few students.

2) Your timetable is off. Duke didn't immediately cancel the lacrosse season. They suspended it initially, waited a few weeks then decided that continuing the season would be inviting a circus that the school didn't want to be a part of and so they canceled the season. You, an outsider, didn't know the thought process for how it happened because the media outlets didn't know either. I wish I still had my emails from 2006 because while the media and everyone on the outside may think Brodhead was randomly doing this and that, everyone that was a student has actually seen the explanation of why and how things happened.

3) Pressler was 'excused' not simply because of the lax situation but due to multiple situations that involved the lacrosse team. Between the allegations coming out and Pressler being encouraged to leave our president ordered an investigation of the lacrosse team's actions. The investigation wasn't limited to the night of the supposed rape but I think it covered much of Pressler's tenure. What did this turn up? The lacrosse team wasn't exactly composed of guys that should be called models for well behaved students. Once again, you, an outsider, didn't hear about the rest of it because the other situations occurred before the rape allegations.

4) Those (those being the ones that are currently suing Duke) kids did NOT have protesters at their doors every day or even one day. There was only ONE student led protest on campus. When outside organizations wanted to protest on campus Duke took a break from "doing nothing" to let those organizations know that their protests would not be allowed to enter campus grounds. In fact, the only ones consistently at their doors were the news crews/trucks that became a fixture on campus for months. THESE kids, if they did receive death threats how is that the University's fault? As I said earlier, you're right about ONE professor that held the situation against members of the team and as I said earlier, that professor should be disciplined for unfair grading practices.

5) It is not the university's job to stand up for you should you get into legal trouble. Its in the student handbook that the University WILL NOT function in the place of your parents. You sign something acknowledging the fact that you understand this and other rules before you show up on campus. Aside from giving suggestions/recommendations for obtaining legal counsel (a courtesy, not their responsibility) the university does not enter into legal situations on ANY student's behalf. The lax players were students and the university, fairly, treated them as they would any other students.

There's a reason that many people who were outraged by the way that the university handled the situation weren't actually on campus and aren't even affiliated with Duke...

1) How is that in the best interest in the school? You just throw an entire sports team under the bus because of allegations? A university needs to protect its students, not treat innocent kids like criminals when they havent even been tried in the court of law.

2) You are nitpicking. So they suspended it THEN cancelled it. Im terribly sorry. That doesn't make it acceptable. Ending a season of the best team in the nation in a major sport for the unproven charges against 3 of its players is a complete joke. Its something that would never be allowed for any other team of any other major sport.

3) Thats a complete joke. Ive seen every single one of the violations committed by the team in years past. They were all for underage drinking and things like disorderly conduct. Things that every single D1 football team deals with every single year. Once again, its a joke to say that they just decided to fire one of the most respected D1 lacrosse coaches out of nowhere for his players having some fun over the years.

4) Thats irrelevant, they lived in an off campus house. Duke certainly did nothing to defend their players or in any way discourage people from harassing them. And I seem to remember several professors speaking out against the players in public.

5) It isnt their job to provide legal council, but it is their responsibility to treat them as athletes of the school and lobby for them. Every single D1 university lobbies for its athletes, I dont know why Duke should be the only one that didnt.

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lax32 (2/21/2008)

1) How is that in the best interest in the school? You just throw an entire sports team under the bus because of allegations? A university needs to protect its students, not treat innocent kids like criminals when they havent even been tried in the court of law.

2) You are nitpicking. So they suspended it THEN cancelled it. Im terribly sorry. That doesn't make it acceptable. Ending a season of the best team in the nation in a major sport for the unproven charges against 3 of its players is a complete joke. Its something that would never be allowed for any other team of any other major sport.

3) Thats a complete joke. Ive seen every single one of the violations committed by the team in years past. They were all for underage drinking and things like disorderly conduct. Things that every single D1 football team deals with every single year. Once again, its a joke to say that they just decided to fire one of the most respected D1 lacrosse coaches out of nowhere for his players having some fun over the years.

4) Thats irrelevant, they lived in an off campus house. Duke certainly did nothing to defend their players or in any way discourage people from harassing them. And I seem to remember several professors speaking out against the players in public.

5) It isnt their job to provide legal council, but it is their responsibility to treat them as athletes of the school and lobby for them. Every single D1 university lobbies for its athletes, I dont know why Duke should be the only one that didnt.

1) It is in the best interest of the school because its a heck of a lot easier to settle with three unhappy students than it is to rebuild your reputation if later you find that you've been supporting three rapists. You remember how AB hung Vick out to dry after the indictment? Same deal. The reputation of the organization is more important than any one of its members.

2) The fact that they were one of the best teams in the country is 100% irrelevant. They were involved in something that would have created a media circus at each and every one of their games during that season and could have potentially degraded into an unsafe situation therefore, it was in the best interest of the people involved not to continue playing the season. It wasn't a punishment.

3) Have you seen all the violations? Have you heard of Tailgate? With every incident at Tailgate, and I'm sure there are more than a few each Saturday Larry Moneta has to shake his fist at the lacrosse team. And you must have forgotten that Lacrosse ISN'T D-I football, isn't half the cash cow that D-I football is and beyond all that for all intents and purposes Duke doesn't play D-I football so the idea that the school would accept what top 10 programs accept is off.

4) You're wrong. The three that already settled with the university lived in the house you're talking about. Most of the other 30 some players lived on campus. On campus they can and did prevent people from harassing the team. Off campus is out of Duke's control.

5) Please explain to me what exactly the university was supposed to do. You have a criminal investigation going on and a DA and the police, public officials that one would presume to act ethically and within the confines of the law, telling you that a crime occurred. Please tell me what valuable bit of lobbying Duke could have done. Tell me what Duke could have said that would have actually helped the players AND wouldn't have been ethically and legally questionable. Tell me what Duke could have done that wouldn't have simply added fuel to the fire. As representatives of the school you're prohibited from hiring strippers. They aren't special because they were athletes. The school should defend them as they would any other student and that's exactly what they did. D-I schools don't go to bat for athletes that get in trouble.

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I was under the impression that the party with the stripper took place at a house off campus, and if that party wasn't solely for Lacrosse players only, than it can't be considered a school organization...it's simply a collection of students, and there's nothing a school can impose on a collection of it students, who are simply gathering to have a good time...now if it was Lacrosse players only, than that might be considered a school function of sorts...but if there was even 1 person, unaffiliated with the team, who wasn't one of the strippers, then I believe that throws out the school organization argument...leastways, that's how it was at my college. ;)

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btrain5489 (2/21/2008)
lax32 (2/21/2008)

1) How is that in the best interest in the school? You just throw an entire sports team under the bus because of allegations? A university needs to protect its students, not treat innocent kids like criminals when they havent even been tried in the court of law.

2) You are nitpicking. So they suspended it THEN cancelled it. Im terribly sorry. That doesn't make it acceptable. Ending a season of the best team in the nation in a major sport for the unproven charges against 3 of its players is a complete joke. Its something that would never be allowed for any other team of any other major sport.

3) Thats a complete joke. Ive seen every single one of the violations committed by the team in years past. They were all for underage drinking and things like disorderly conduct. Things that every single D1 football team deals with every single year. Once again, its a joke to say that they just decided to fire one of the most respected D1 lacrosse coaches out of nowhere for his players having some fun over the years.

4) Thats irrelevant, they lived in an off campus house. Duke certainly did nothing to defend their players or in any way discourage people from harassing them. And I seem to remember several professors speaking out against the players in public.

5) It isnt their job to provide legal council, but it is their responsibility to treat them as athletes of the school and lobby for them. Every single D1 university lobbies for its athletes, I dont know why Duke should be the only one that didnt.

1) It is in the best interest of the school because its a heck of a lot easier to settle with three unhappy students than it is to rebuild your reputation if later you find that you've been supporting three rapists. You remember how AB hung Vick out to dry after the indictment? Same deal. The reputation of the organization is more important than any one of its members.

2) The fact that they were one of the best teams in the country is 100% irrelevant. They were involved in something that would have created a media circus at each and every one of their games during that season and could have potentially degraded into an unsafe situation therefore, it was in the best interest of the people involved not to continue playing the season. It wasn't a punishment.

3) Have you seen all the violations? Have you heard of Tailgate? With every incident at Tailgate, and I'm sure there are more than a few each Saturday Larry Moneta has to shake his fist at the lacrosse team. And you must have forgotten that Lacrosse ISN'T D-I football, isn't half the cash cow that D-I football is and beyond all that for all intents and purposes Duke doesn't play D-I football so the idea that the school would accept what top 10 programs accept is off.

4) You're wrong. The three that already settled with the university lived in the house you're talking about. Most of the other 30 some players lived on campus. On campus they can and did prevent people from harassing the team. Off campus is out of Duke's control.

5) Please explain to me what exactly the university was supposed to do. You have a criminal investigation going on and a DA and the police, public officials that one would presume to act ethically and within the confines of the law, telling you that a crime occurred. Please tell me what valuable bit of lobbying Duke could have done. Tell me what Duke could have said that would have actually helped the players AND wouldn't have been ethically and legally questionable. Tell me what Duke could have done that wouldn't have simply added fuel to the fire. As representatives of the school you're prohibited from hiring strippers. They aren't special because they were athletes. The school should defend them as they would any other student and that's exactly what they did. D-I schools don't go to bat for athletes that get in trouble.

Oh so lacrosse is treated differently than football and basketball because it doesn't make as much money now?

I can't believe you think they were justified in ending the season before any of the players were even charged.

As long as you want to draw comparisons to Duke lax and the Falcons, AB DIDN'T end the season, and he DIDN'T do anything to Vick before he was charged.

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