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Steve Barkowski is the franchise's losingest QB (per rules on other thread)


gazoo
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The thread title is obviously just a poke at the other going around that ignores all Steve losses, however, why can;'t some of us feel that both Steve AND Vick gave the Falcons a good chance to win on Sundays when they were provioded some help?

I LIKED THE PLAY OF BOTH 2 TIME PRO BOWL QB BARTKOWSKI AND 3 TIME PRO BOWL QB VICK. [/size]

I loved our 2 time Pro Bowl QB Steve Bartkowski, (he made 2 Pro Bowls in 12 seasons) What great memories on those all star rosters he has with 3 All Pro offensive linemen, one of the top NFL centers of his time in ALL PRO Van Note, the franchises absolute best pass protector ever in ALL PRO Mike Kenn, an ALL PRO OG in RC Thielman, a pro bowl TE in Junoir Miller that was an accomplished blocker, a feared power rushing attack with William Andrews and Lynn Cain, one of the franchises best ever duo's at WR in Alfred Jenkins and Wallace Francis, not to mention a good defense backing that offensive machine up.

Bartkowski was great when he had a stud supporting cast. With a lot of great players around him, blocking for him, running and catching the ball for him, Bartkowski was able to lead this team to playoff games.

The thing that so many want to ignore is that when Bartkowski had an average supporting cast, Bartkowski did not take us to the playoffs and could not make the Pro Bowl. We all recall the good times and forget all those years of losing with Bart as well when he had little help. As most any QB in the NFL, Steve lost a heck of a lot of games without help with a winning percentage under 500%. .

There has only been one QB in the history of our franchise that was able to take a pathetic OL, subpar, inexperienced and at time pathetic WR's, poor running game which was exposed in 2007, and average to horrific defenses and still take us to the NFCCG and to a historic win at Lambeau another year!

I think BOTH Vick AND BART were very good players for us. I'm not talking about OFF FIELD STUFF. Barts drunken closing down bars the night before games or his womanizing, and Vick's dog fighting are a different topic that has to do with off field. This topic is about how they played on the field.

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Bartkowskis supporting cast in 1980:

OFFENSE

WR 89 Wallace Francis

WR 84 Alfred Jenkins

LT 78 Mike Kenn

C 57 Jeff Van Note

RG 68 R.C. Thielemann

RT 66 Warren Bryant

TE 80 Junior Miller

LG 70 Dave Scott

QB 10 Steve Bartkowski

FB 31 William Andrews

HB 21 Lynn Cain

DEFENSE

LE 79 Jeff Yeates

NT 65 Don Smith

RE 75 Jeff Merrow

56 Al Richardson

SS 36 Bob Glazebrook

FS 27 Tom Pridemore

LCB 22 Rolland Lawrence

RCB 37 Kenny Johnson

ROLB 51 Jim Laughlin

RILB 50 Buddy Curry

LILB 54 Fulton Kuykendall

LOLB KR 16 Reggie Smith

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Bloodhoundz Reborn (2/19/2008)
Wait Bart was a womanizer??

If true then that's funny that Birdweisser would call Bart Classy but then call D-Hall a thug.:hehe:

Bart was legendary in his first several years as a Falcon for his heavy drinking, womanizing and even going out the night before big games and being seen hammered at bars.

But that personal life stuff doesn;t really interest me, I am really more focused n what he did when he was on the field when he had a good and bad supporting cast. The fact is, Bartkowski lead us to playoff wins a couple times in his 12 year career and made 2 Pro Bowls as a player. We should all be very proud of his play in the years he was given a supporting cast.

We also know Vick did more with less. Vick never had a supporting cast REMOTELY CLOSE to what Bartkowski had in 1980, but Vick won 3 Pro Bowls and took us the the NFCCG one year, and advanced us in the playoffs another year.

They both had their moments, but let there be no question in any honest persons mind looking at that all star roster Bartkowski had.......Vick never had a supporting cast anywhere near that good.

I would LOVE to see how far Vick would have taken us with 3 ALL PRO offensive lineman, a running ack by the name of William Andrews, a crushing blocker FB in Lynn Cain, one of the best starting duos at WR in Alfred Jenkins and Wallace Francise, and a pro bowl TE in Junoir Miller.

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gazoo is right. On the field both were good for the team when they were given other tools to help them.

He is also right in that early in his career Bart did party too much. In fact he was calld "Peachtree Bart" in the local press. It went so far that he was benched in favor of June Jones for a game. He did, however, change his ways thanks to teammate Greg Berzina. Read Bart's biography sometime, it is very enlightining, and reaffirms that no person is so great that he can not be taught humility. It also illistrates that no person is so bad that there is no hope for him. Bart "saw the light" and you know that by how he changed his life. Although he never wound up in trouble with the law he very well could have. Let's hope Vick will "see the light" as well. Only time and his actions will tell.

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*dreams* Oh if only Bart had that 4.3 speed, the Falcons would've won 3 straight Super Bowls!

IMO Vick's speed was all he had and with that said, I would have loved to see what he could have done had he not had to "run for his life" the whole time he played in Atlanta. But with all that in the past, thats all I can say for Vick as I too had very high hopes for the man.

As for Bart, he had a gun fo an arm but he just couldn't run *sighs*. The sad part of the story also was that Atlanta didn't get him that Oline till he was sacked so much he was deamed a "sitting target" as I remember him catching all the blame for the sacks *sad*.

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ALL PRO BOWLERS & ALL PROS ARE MARKED:

Bartkowskis supporting cast in 1980:

OFFENSE

WR 89 Wallace Francis (a very solid #2 WR)

WR 84 Alfred Jenkins ALL PRO WR

LT 78 Mike Kenn ALL PRO LT

C 57 Jeff Van Note ALL PRO C

RG 68 R.C. Thielemann ALL PRO OG

RT 66 Warren Bryant (6th pick of the entire 1977 draft, was MASSIVE for his era at 6'8" 275lbs)

TE 80 Junior Miller PRO BOWLER

LG 70 Dave Scott (solid 3rd round pick)

FB 31 William Andrews 4 PRO BOWLS (one of first NFL players to rush for 2000 yards 2 seasons in a row

HB 21 Lynn Cain (an excellent complement to Andrews )

How could any sane person sit here and try to suggest Vick had a supporting cast anywhere near as good as this one???????

The fact is, Vick did more with less. Many don;t seem to like this fact, but it is undenaible to anyone looking at that 1980 offense Bartkowsi had with an objective eye.

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gazoo (2/19/2008)
ALL PRO BOWLERS & ALL PROS ARE MARKED:

Bartkowskis supporting cast in 1980:

OFFENSE

WR 89 Wallace Francis

WR 84 Alfred Jenkins ALL PRO WR

LT 78 Mike Kenn ALL PRO LT

C 57 Jeff Van Note ALL PRO C

RG 68 R.C. Thielemann ALL PRO OG

RT 66 Warren Bryant (6th pick of the entire 1977 draft, was MASSIVE for his era at 6'8" 275lbs)

TE 80 Junior Miller PRO BOWLER

LG 70 Dave Scott (solid 3rd round pick)

FB 31 William Andrews 4 PRO BOWLS (one of first NFL players to rush for 2000 yards 2 seasons in a row

HB 21 Lynn Cain

How could any sane person sit here and try to suggest Vick had a supporting cast as good as this one???????

Didn't you say to move on last week? Maybe I'm wrong, btw people have different opinions just let them think what they think. Too bad Vick can't prove many of the critics wrong right now.

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DeathFromAbove (2/19/2008)
Find it notable that Bartkowski was not out committing multiple felonies in his downtime.

I think Gazoo made it clear in his initial post that this was about on the field play...well, I don't think it....I know it, since he actually wrote "This topic is about how they played on the field." Perhaps, you interpreted that sentence differently.

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july425 (2/19/2008)
DeathFromAbove (2/19/2008)
Find it notable that Bartkowski was not out committing multiple felonies in his downtime.

I think Gazoo made it clear in his initial post that this was about on the field play...well, I don't think it....I know it, since he actually wrote "This topic is about how they played on the field." Perhaps, you interpreted that sentence differently.

Naw...........they can't help themselves. It's in their blood :crying:

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ghoticov (2/19/2008)
Maybe its just me but I don't see why a "fan" of their team would start such a negative thread about one of the best QB's in Falcons history.

But then again, I don't post just to see myself talk so...

Because he's not a fan of the Falcons!!!!!

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gazoo (2/19/2008)
The thread title is obviously just a poke at the other going around that ignores all Steve losses, however, why can;'t some of us feel that both Steve AND Vick gave the Falcons a good chance to win on Sundays when they were provioded some help?

I LIKED THE PLAY OF BOTH 2 TIME PRO BOWL QB BARTKOWSKI AND 3 TIME PRO BOWL QB VICK. [/size]

I loved our 2 time Pro Bowl QB Steve Bartkowski, (he made 2 Pro Bowls in 12 seasons) What great memories on those all star rosters he has with 3 All Pro offensive linemen, one of the top NFL centers of his time in ALL PRO Van Note, the franchises absolute best pass protector ever in ALL PRO Mike Kenn, an ALL PRO OG in RC Thielman, a pro bowl TE in Junoir Miller that was an accomplished blocker, a feared power rushing attack with William Andrews and Lynn Cain, one of the franchises best ever duo's at WR in Alfred Jenkins and Wallace Francis, not to mention a good defense backing that offensive machine up.

Bartkowski was great when he had a stud supporting cast. With a lot of great players around him, blocking for him, running and catching the ball for him, Bartkowski was able to lead this team to playoff games.

The thing that so many want to ignore is that when Bartkowski had an average supporting cast, Bartkowski did not take us to the playoffs and could not make the Pro Bowl. We all recall the good times and forget all those years of losing with Bart as well when he had little help. As most any QB in the NFL, Steve lost a heck of a lot of games without help with a winning percentage under 500%. .

There has only been one QB in the history of our franchise that was able to take a pathetic OL, subpar, inexperienced and at time pathetic WR's, poor running game which was exposed in 2007, and average to horrific defenses and still take us to the NFCCG and to a historic win at Lambeau another year!

I think BOTH Vick AND BART were very good players for us. I'm not talking about OFF FIELD STUFF. Barts drunken closing down bars the night before games or his womanizing, and Vick's dog fighting are a different topic that has to do with off field. This topic is about how they played on the field.

Thats an interesting "Opinion" I should say.

I'm still trying to get the point of the post though, I mean, are you trying to discrace all the previous Falcons players who were superstars of the past, and or are you trying to make them look human, or are you just flat out trying to add more fuel to the Falcon flaming from last year?

I don't like the tone that you are taking right now by bashing previous Falcons heroes so to speak that made their mark with the Falcons, players who put this franchise on the map.

Who's next "William Andrews or Lynn Cain, or maybe Deon Sanders or others?".

When you speak of our past franchise history with the Falcons keep in mind that you are always talking about players who in some cases made us fans to begin with. To say what you are saying is called "Bashing" and is unacceptable.

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ghoticov (2/19/2008)
Maybe its just me but I don't see why a "fan" of their team would start such a negative thread about one of the best QB's in Falcons history.

But then again, I don't post just to see myself talk so...

I'm trying to figure that one out myself. I stood up for Gazoo in another thread, but now I am starting to see why others see his NEGATIVE side of things so much. You don't "BASH" our previous Falcons players that have made their mark in history as doing good for us fans, just my opinion. Yeah we haven't won a superbowl but we have several players and such to be proud of for our team from the past : "THE ATLANTA FALCONS", that we have had over the years. Yeah you can talk stats and all that and make comparisons but you don't make suggestions to the point of saying they didn't make their mark here for this franchise. That's taking a poke at the entire history of the Falcons and the Fans IMO..... Calling everyone stupid....

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freeze1st (2/19/2008)
ghoticov (2/19/2008)
Maybe its just me but I don't see why a "fan" of their team would start such a negative thread about one of the best QB's in Falcons history.

But then again, I don't post just to see myself talk so...

I'm trying to figure that one out myself. I stood up for Gazoo in another thread, but now I am starting to see why others see his NEGATIVE side of things so much. You don't "BASH" our previous Falcons players that have made their mark in history as doing good for us fans, just my opinion. Yeah we haven't won a superbowl but we have several players and such to be proud of for our team from the past : "THE ATLANTA FALCONS", that we have had over the years. Yeah you can talk stats and all that and make comparisons but you don't make suggestions to the point of saying they didn't make their mark here for this franchise. That's taking a poke at the entire history of the Falcons and the Fans IMO..... Calling everyone stupid....

If you are around long enough, you will see why so many give Gazoo a hard time.

Why would he start a thread bashing a Falcon legend like Bartkowski?

Like I said, maybe its just me but I don't get it. I truely believe that Gazoo starts threads so he can be the attention whore that he is.

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freeze1st

I don't like the tone that you are taking right now by bashing previous Falcons heroes so to speak that made their mark with the Falcons, players who put this franchise on the map.

To say what you are saying is called "Bashing" and is unacceptable.

I happen to know Steve Bartkowski, I happen to be a very big fan of his, so I would have absolutely no desire to bash him as you suggest. I cstated clearly that I fel Bartkowski AND Vick both were good qb's for us....how did you miss this?

Please tell me exactly where I bashed him....let's have the quote. That's just plain silly to draw that interpretation. I stated immediately that the thread title was just a play on the ost going around about how he was the winningest......it's a figgen joke my friend, relax.

Simply posting an iron clad argument that Vick did more with less of a supporting cast is not bashing Batkowski. Why do posters hate the truth so much? I guaranty you Bartkowski would be the first to admit his supporting cast was unquestionaly the best in the history of the Falcons.

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It's called comprehensive reading.

If you would have read it right, You would have considered it pointing out his weaknesses.

Since he stated that Bart and Vick were both good for atlanta, on the field, and since everyone and their grandma can find something wrong with vick, he just reminded you that Bart was not perfect himself.

end of story

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Gazoo, I consider you my friend, but you know when you compare one of our great QB's of the past to UKW or "Michael Vick" for the people who are gonna say "Why didn't you say his name", that there is gonna be conflict somewhere.

When you talk about the past history of the Falcons always make sure you don't downgrade them JFYI, because there are several of our past players that helped make this a franchise worth being a fan of in the past believe it or not. That's mainly all I am saying. I wish we had some of those players we used to have in their prime right now.

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