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Socialist Security


capologist
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1. Allow any who wants to, OPT out of the system completely. Those who opt out will still pay 3.75% (vs. 7.5%) and their employers would pay 3.75% (instead of 7.5%) to keep funding the system for those collecting or who choose to.

2. Government option: 1) Make people prove they took their new found 3.75% and put it in an investment source (Roth IRA, mutual fund, etc.) OR 2) just let people be responsible for their own outcome.

Benefits: 1) Gets the government out of our money; 2) People investing it would make MILLIONS off the deal instead of hoping to draw $1200 a month; 3) Gets rid of a faulty system.

Why on Earth haven't people DEMANDED this? Have we been so brainwashed to think working for 50 years to draw a total of $336,000 for retirement is better for us?

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Screw that! I want to be on the government teet forever!

jk...Seriously, The only way I'd be ok with the proposal you just suggested, is if my company were matching the 3.75% I was required to put into a Roth or Traditional IRA.

Otherwise, I'd rather just take my 7% and put it where I please, and let my company continue to pay into a system that earns less returns than a savings account.

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kicker23 (2/13/2008)
Screw that! I want to be on the government teet forever!

jk...Seriously, The only way I'd be ok with the proposal you just suggested, is if my company were matching the 3.75% I was required to put into a Roth or Traditional IRA.

Otherwise, I'd rather just take my 7% and put it where I please, and let my company continue to pay into a system that earns less returns than a savings account.

Not an option. Because we started this system it has to stay adequately funded for those who were sucked in.

Just the 3.75% would easily turn into more than you'd ever collect from SS, there is no downside to it from what I can see. I'd be more than willing to take the hit on the 3.75% to get 30 times what I could ever hope to collect from SS...

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capologist (2/13/2008)

Not an option. Because we started this system it has to stay adequately funded for those who were sucked in.

Just the 3.75% would easily turn into more than you'd ever collect from SS, there is no downside to it from what I can see. I'd be more than willing to take the hit on the 3.75% to get 30 times what I could ever hope to collect from SS...

What's really sad is that if the government hadn't robbed the SS fund several times over, there would be more than enough in it right now to keep it solvent forever if it just earned the smallest of interest margins.

In Alaska, the state DOT has opted out of SS. They take your contribution and invest it. People litterally retire millionaires from the Alaska DOT. Any corporation can do the same thing if they're willing to do the paper work to tell the government to go to **** and manage a HUGE retirement account for their employees.

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alfred e. neuman (2/13/2008)

In Alaska, the state DOT has opted out of SS. They take your contribution and invest it. People litterally retire millionaires from the Alaska DOT. Any corporation can do the same thing if they're willing to do the paper work to tell the government to go to **** and manage a HUGE retirement account for their employees.

I shouldn't have to depend on a corporation to do it for me, I should be able to push some paper and opt the heck out if I want to.

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ty down (2/13/2008)
I heard of a guy that opted out paying taxes, by writing a letter to the IRS stating that he didn't feel his money should be taxed. I have only heard this, but I know he hasn't paid taxes in over 14 years.

Many people don't pay taxes. There is no law stating that you must pay a tax on your wages.

The government will still take you to court to try to take everything you own, including your freedom, if you don't pay. It just depends on the jury you get as to whether you spend the next decade in prison or not.

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alfred e. neuman (2/13/2008)
ty down (2/13/2008)
I heard of a guy that opted out paying taxes, by writing a letter to the IRS stating that he didn't feel his money should be taxed. I have only heard this, but I know he hasn't paid taxes in over 14 years.

Many people don't pay taxes. There is no law stating that you must pay a tax on your wages.

The government will still take you to court to try to take everything you own, including your freedom, if you don't pay. It just depends on the jury you get as to whether you spend the next decade in prison or not.

That's just it he has never been taken to court.

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capologist (2/13/2008)

I shouldn't have to depend on a corporation to do it for me, I should be able to push some paper and opt the heck out if I want to.

I'd rather it go into a private account in my name that's managed by my company. As long as they have a good financial planner managing the account, they should be able to do as well or better than I could in the market. And it saves me the month to month hassle of managing my own account.

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alfred e. neuman (2/13/2008)

I'd rather it go into a private account in my name that's managed by my company. As long as they have a good financial planner managing the account, they should be able to do as well or better than I could in the market. And it saves me the month to month hassle of managing my own account.

I could more than live with that option, I just want out of the Socialist Security system.

As far as taxes, a great start would be to implement the Fair Tax and go from there.

Yet instead we are already hearing Obama speak about how he's going to spend Federal money to increase construction jobs, etc.

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capologist (2/13/2008)
1. Allow any who wants to, OPT out of the system completely. Those who opt out will still pay 3.75% (vs. 7.5%) and their employers would pay 3.75% (instead of 7.5%) to keep funding the system for those collecting or who choose to.

2. Government option: 1) Make people prove they took their new found 3.75% and put it in an investment source (Roth IRA, mutual fund, etc.) OR 2) just let people be responsible for their own outcome.

Benefits: 1) Gets the government out of our money; 2) People investing it would make MILLIONS off the deal instead of hoping to draw $1200 a month; 3) Gets rid of a faulty system.

Why on Earth haven't people DEMANDED this? Have we been so brainwashed to think working for 50 years to draw a total of $336,000 for retirement is better for us?

I agree that SS should be privatized without any government interference what so ever.

However, there lies the possibility that people will not save and provide for their future, so there has to be some type of MANDATORY system in place. And that should be the only role government plays, in just the requirement.

The system I have thought about would be called an MRA.

Mandatory Retirement Account

Each individual would be required to open an MRA at any Federally Insured Bank, Saving and Loan Offices or Credit Unions. (Parents would be required to start this for minor children before they entered the work force.)

The account number would then be provided to the employer and a flat rate of 10% would be deducted from the salary and deposited into the account monthly by the employer with any matching funds.(Of course the individual could contribute more or whatever amount they wished without penalty.)

These accounts would be LOCKED until the individual reached their retirement goals or in the event of their untimely death, they would be passed on to a named beneficiary.(Spouse, children, etc.)

The account would be controlled by the individual and investments could be made in any legitimate market with investment advisor's at the banking institutions.

The retirement age would then be controlled by the individual.

The determining factor would be when the individual accumulated enough wealth to support their standard of living for their projected life expectancy without any government assistance. Several computer programs are now available for retirement planning and could be used for projections.

Not only would this encourage saving, but these funds would be the property of the individual to dispose of how ever they saw fit in the event of their demise.

Several gray areas would be the cut off point for the current population and how to "buy out" people that already have many years invested into the current SS system.

This is a workable, doable fix to a never ending problem.

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eatcorn (2/14/2008)
I'm perfectly fine with being taxed so that there is a safety net for the elderly. It's not a government teet, it's citizens paying for care to people who need it.

But of course like anything else the federal government has taken it upon itself to confiscate my earnings to fund, it's mismanaged Social Security to the point of insolvency. And SS is something that should be solvent forever without another dime of imput from the tax payers if they had just left the fund alone and let it earn anything close to market interest.

And some people want this same entity to manage a several hundred billion dollar socialised medicine plan. :hehe:

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Eatcorn, its nice to know that you are okay with it. Its also nice to know that you are okay with the government taking money from everybody else. Do you also cheer for muggers on the street?

If someone were to do the exact same thing that the Federal Government does with Socialist Security, you would go to jail for fraud because it is what is known as a Ponzi scheme, named after Charles Ponzi, the man who dreamed it up in the 20's and went to prison for doing it.

So not only did our government get to take this idea from a fraudulent criminal and get to run it without any regard for the law, they are able to use the police power of government to force all wage earners to take part in it.

If Bob's Security did what Social Security does, he would go to jail. So why does our government get to do it and FORCE people to throw their money away at it?

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Doc_2957 (2/13/2008)

The account number would then be provided to the employer and a flat rate of 10% would be deducted from the salary and deposited into the account monthly by the employer with any matching funds.(Of course the individual could contribute more or whatever amount they wished without penalty.)

The only part I'd take issue with is the 10%. I think it's far too high (especially when 3.75% would yield millions). The problem is that it's an increase that some people really can't afford but I think you could easily do the 3.75% and keep taxing the rest to keep the system intact for those who are too entrenched to get out. I'd also highly encourage people to add more if able and educate them on the difference of doing it now vs. waiting.

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eatcorn (2/14/2008)
I'm perfectly fine with being taxed so that there is a safety net for the elderly. It's not a government teet, it's citizens paying for care to people who need it.

For the current elderly, sure, so are we all.

However, for those under 50, it's a total rip off. That's the problem...

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alfred e. neuman (2/14/2008)
eatcorn (2/14/2008)
I'm perfectly fine with being taxed so that there is a safety net for the elderly. It's not a government teet, it's citizens paying for care to people who need it.

But of course like anything else the federal government has taken it upon itself to confiscate my earnings to fund, it's mismanaged Social Security to the point of insolvency. And SS is something that should be solvent forever without another dime of imput from the tax payers if they had just left the fund alone and let it earn anything close to market interest.

And some people want this same entity to manage a several hundred billion dollar socialised medicine plan. :hehe:

I prefer to hold them accountable and fix the system than absolve them of all responsbility.
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morphy (2/14/2008)
Eatcorn, its nice to know that you are okay with it. Its also nice to know that you are okay with the government taking money from everybody else. Do you also cheer for muggers on the street?

If someone were to do the exact same thing that the Federal Government does with Socialist Security, you would go to jail for fraud because it is what is known as a Ponzi scheme, named after Charles Ponzi, the man who dreamed it up in the 20's and went to prison for doing it.

So not only did our government get to take this idea from a fraudulent criminal and get to run it without any regard for the law, they are able to use the police power of government to force all wage earners to take part in it.

If Bob's Security did what Social Security does, he would go to jail. So why does our government get to do it and FORCE people to throw their money away at it?

The intent is to pay for the needs of the elderly. The government has abidcated responsible management of the funds, so we need to put mechanisms in place to keep that from happening. i do not think that privatisation is the asnwer.

Social security is not based on that scheme. Social security was implement correctly during a time of great and appropriate need and has since been bastardized.

Fix it, don't get rid of it.

Yes, I totally cheer for muggers.

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eatcorn (2/14/2008)
morphy (2/14/2008)
Eatcorn, its nice to know that you are okay with it. Its also nice to know that you are okay with the government taking money from everybody else. Do you also cheer for muggers on the street?

If someone were to do the exact same thing that the Federal Government does with Socialist Security, you would go to jail for fraud because it is what is known as a Ponzi scheme, named after Charles Ponzi, the man who dreamed it up in the 20's and went to prison for doing it.

So not only did our government get to take this idea from a fraudulent criminal and get to run it without any regard for the law, they are able to use the police power of government to force all wage earners to take part in it.

If Bob's Security did what Social Security does, he would go to jail. So why does our government get to do it and FORCE people to throw their money away at it?

The intent is to pay for the needs of the elderly. The government has abidcated responsible management of the funds, so we need to put mechanisms in place to keep that from happening. i do not think that privatisation is the asnwer.

Social security is not based on that scheme. Social security was implement correctly during a time of great and appropriate need and has since been bastardized.

Fix it, don't get rid of it.

Yes, I totally cheer for muggers.

The road to **** is paved with good intentions. The problem is that our federal government is horribly inefficient in virtually everything in which they are involved. Alfred is right, when the politicians discovered that they could help themselves to the SS fund to pay for other programs designed to "help people", the program was doomed.

And many have tried to "fix it" over the years and most of them have found themselves out of a job because that person was invariably characterized by his opponents was want to "hurt the old folks", and that is a demographic that votes the most. That is why political types refer to SS as the "third rail of politics", if you touch it, you fry.

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raptorial bird (2/14/2008)
The problem is, old people vote.

I used to say the same thing lol. Then I got OLD!! :hehe:

The MAIN problem is, nobody saves for their retirement... period. I'm only planning on using my social security for gas money and slot machines. Anyone who's actually relying on social security to fund their retirement is either a fool or has some gourmet dog food recipes.

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