Jump to content

WTH is wrong with people putting Reagan on a pedastal?


Recommended Posts

First, I can understand the Republican's not wanting to talk about Bush but Bush in the long run may be tied with Reagan as the worst president ever.

To put such a buffoon on a god like pedestal just shows how pathetic the republican party is right now because I guess they cannot reach all the way back to Lincoln.

1. Does anyone remember Grenada?

2. Does anyone remember the Iran-Contra affair?

3. Does anyone remember Reagan putting a wreath on Nazi SS soldiers graves at Bitburg

4. Does anyone remember "Star Wars"?

5. Does anyone remember Reagan green lighting the Israeli invasion of Lebanon then when the Marine barracks were bombed tucking tail and getting out.

6. Does anyone remember "trickle down economics" and the deficit going from $930 Billion when he took office to $2.6 trillion in 1988. Reagan went from a deficit of about 1 billion that took 200 years to accumulate and he TRIPLED it in EIGHT years.

7. PLEASE do not say that REAGAN ended the Cold War. THERE is not ONE historian that I have ever read that says that Reagan ended the cold war. ONLY conservative politicians and GOP sheep. I am not saying he did not play a SMALL role, however most historians agree that the demise of the USSR was in full effect before Reagan took office and for many many many reasons.

But I know Republicans love to say that it was Reagen that ended the Cold war but most of the time these are the same people that try and give Reagan the credit for the release of the Iran Hostages because they were officially handed over on his inauguration day although it was Carter and only Carter that got them released.

I had to get that off my chest because I am so sick and tired of hearing about Reagan as if he is a GOD.

Oh yeah, I forgot the fact that he was in the early stages of Alzheimer's when he took office and was getting bad at the end of his Presidency. That is why some of his Presidential Quotes are better than almost ALL of Bush quotes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone remember 15% inflation?

Does anyone remember 21% interest rates?

Does anyone remember 11% unemployment?

Does anyone remember gasoline rationing?

Does anyone remember an American military so depleted that pilots refused to fly their aircraft for safety reasons?

Does anyone remember the Soviet Union?

Does anyone remember the Iran hostage crisis?

Yeah, that Reagan.....HE SUCKED.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and it's ridiculous to try to pin that all on one man. You want to make the president responsible for every bad thing that happened during that time and not put any blame on Congress? The only people I know who do that are Democrat/Liberal sheep considering that the Democrats had the majority at that time

before anybody responds, I am not blaming all the problems on Congress...I am merely pointing out the idiocy of trying to blame it all on one man and give Congress a pass

Link to comment
Share on other sites

octoslash (2/7/2008)
Does anyone remember 15% inflation?

Does anyone remember 21% interest rates?

Does anyone remember 11% unemployment?

Does anyone remember gasoline rationing?

Does anyone remember an American military so depleted that pilots refused to fly their aircraft for safety reasons?

Does anyone remember the Soviet Union?

Does anyone remember the Iran hostage crisis?

Yeah, that Reagan.....HE SUCKED.

Was I talking about Carter? NO

Was this topic about Carter? NO

Are the Democrats saying Carters name every other sentence? NO

This is not about who was a better choice Carter or Reagan it is about how BAD of a President REAGAN was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dago (2/7/2008)
and it's ridiculous to try to pin that all on one man. You want to make the president responsible for every bad thing that happened during that time and not put any blame on Congress? The only people I know who do that are Democrat/Liberal sheep considering that the Democrats had the majority at that time

before anybody responds, I am not blaming all the problems on Congress...I am merely pointing out the idiocy of trying to blame it all on one man and give Congress a pass

maybe he is pointing out the problems he had to deal with left over from the previous administration? trying to judge a president's time in office without looking at the context of what came before is also pretty idiotic

Link to comment
Share on other sites

braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
First, I can understand the Republican's not wanting to talk about Bush but Bush in the long run may be tied with Reagan as the worst president ever.

To put such a buffoon on a god like pedestal just shows how pathetic the republican party is right now because I guess they cannot reach all the way back to Lincoln.

1. Does anyone remember Grenada?

2. Does anyone remember the Iran-Contra affair?

3. Does anyone remember Reagan putting a wreath on Nazi SS soldiers graves at Bitburg

4. Does anyone remember "Star Wars"?

5. Does anyone remember Reagan green lighting the Israeli invasion of Lebanon then when the Marine barracks were bombed tucking tail and getting out.

6. Does anyone remember "trickle down economics" and the deficit going from $930 Billion when he took office to $2.6 trillion in 1988. Reagan went from a deficit of about 1 billion that took 200 years to accumulate and he TRIPLED it in EIGHT years.

7. PLEASE do not say that REAGAN ended the Cold War. THERE is not ONE historian that I have ever read that says that Reagan ended the cold war. ONLY conservative politicians and GOP sheep. I am not saying he did not play a SMALL role, however most historians agree that the demise of the USSR was in full effect before Reagan took office and for many many many reasons.

But I know Republicans love to say that it was Reagen that ended the Cold war but most of the time these are the same people that try and give Reagan the credit for the release of the Iran Hostages because they were officially handed over on his inauguration day although it was Carter and only Carter that got them released.

I had to get that off my chest because I am so sick and tired of hearing about Reagan as if he is a GOD.

Oh yeah, I forgot the fact that he was in the early stages of Alzheimer's when he took office and was getting bad at the end of his Presidency. That is why some of his Presidential Quotes are better than almost ALL of Bush quotes

So Congress was responsible for Lebanon and Grenada?

Congress was responsible for the Iran Contra affair?

Congress was responsible for putting a wreath on NAZI soldiers graves?

I could go on and on here. Congress had nothing to do with it and Reagan could have vetoed ANY of the Spending bills that Congress passed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
First, I can understand the Republican's not wanting to talk about Bush but Bush in the long run may be tied with Reagan as the worst president ever.

To put such a buffoon on a god like pedestal just shows how pathetic the republican party is right now because I guess they cannot reach all the way back to Lincoln.

1. Does anyone remember Grenada?

2. Does anyone remember the Iran-Contra affair?

3. Does anyone remember Reagan putting a wreath on Nazi SS soldiers graves at Bitburg

4. Does anyone remember "Star Wars"?

5. Does anyone remember Reagan green lighting the Israeli invasion of Lebanon then when the Marine barracks were bombed tucking tail and getting out.

6. Does anyone remember "trickle down economics" and the deficit going from $930 Billion when he took office to $2.6 trillion in 1988. Reagan went from a deficit of about 1 billion that took 200 years to accumulate and he TRIPLED it in EIGHT years.

7. PLEASE do not say that REAGAN ended the Cold War. THERE is not ONE historian that I have ever read that says that Reagan ended the cold war. ONLY conservative politicians and GOP sheep. I am not saying he did not play a SMALL role, however most historians agree that the demise of the USSR was in full effect before Reagan took office and for many many many reasons.

But I know Republicans love to say that it was Reagen that ended the Cold war but most of the time these are the same people that try and give Reagan the credit for the release of the Iran Hostages because they were officially handed over on his inauguration day although it was Carter and only Carter that got them released.

I had to get that off my chest because I am so sick and tired of hearing about Reagan as if he is a GOD.

Oh yeah, I forgot the fact that he was in the early stages of Alzheimer's when he took office and was getting bad at the end of his Presidency. That is why some of his Presidential Quotes are better than almost ALL of Bush quotes

So Congress was responsible for Lebanon and Grenada?

Congress was responsible for the Iran Contra affair?

Congress was responsible for putting a wreath on NAZI soldiers graves?

I could go on and on here. Congress had nothing to do with it and Reagan could have vetoed ANY of the Spending bills that Congress passed.

"the spending bills that Congress passed"

thank you for proving my point so well. Baaaaa indeed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hasn't anyone learned yet that this 'pointing fingers' stuff doesn't solve a thing in the long run?

And please don't give me the "trying to keep history from repeating itself" speel either.

The next President is going to be either a Dem or a Repub that will do good works and make mistakes.

I'll be happy just to see the next President, Senate and House work together for once for the good of the country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
Oh yeah, I forgot the fact that he was in the early stages of Alzheimer's when he took office and was getting bad at the end of his Presidency.

This is not a factual statement. There is ZERO evidence that Reagan had any signs or symptoms of Alzheimer's AT ALL while in office. He certainly was not in the "early stages" in 1980, because he'd have been dead long before he actually departed this earth.

My recollection is you made this statement on the old boards, and it was debunked there. If that's the case, you should be ashamed for repeating it. If not, do some research. The truth is out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JDaveG (2/7/2008)
braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
Oh yeah, I forgot the fact that he was in the early stages of Alzheimer's when he took office and was getting bad at the end of his Presidency.

This is not a factual statement. There is ZERO evidence that Reagan had any signs or symptoms of Alzheimer's AT ALL while in office. He certainly was not in the "early stages" in 1980, because he'd have been dead long before he actually departed this earth.

My recollection is you made this statement on the old boards, and it was debunked there. If that's the case, you should be ashamed for repeating it. If not, do some research. The truth is out there.

No I did not make this statement before. And there are a NUMBER of people that worked with Reagan that have said this very thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Waterproof_ace83 (2/7/2008)
:)

RememberingReagan.jpg

He I forgot he was a big supporter of the 2nd biggest enemy we have faced Saddam.

I also forgot that he supported the apartheid.

Also snake here is the link to where your GOD like HERO laid a wreath on Nazi SS soldiers graves in Bitberg.

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/06/internat...ope/06REAG.html

And I know the sheep that you are that you will make an 3excuse for this just like you have for everything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
[No I did not make this statement before. And there are a NUMBER of people that worked with Reagan that have said this very thing.

Of course you didn't....

Since a NUMBER of people that worked with Reagan said this, why don't you provide names, quotes and citations.

Here, I'll start:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthr...es/s1126442.htm

"I was unable to find any evidence by any medical criteria that is known to the medical profession that Mr Regan had any symptoms or signs of Alzheimer s when he was President. The signs and symptoms developed several years after he left office, but interviews with senior Cabinet officials in his last term, with his doctors who treated him on a regular basis, and other people who knew him, could turn up no evidence that there was any incidence or incidents that suggested that he had Alzheimer s. And even his biographer didn t find any evidence of it."

-- Dr Larry Altman, Chief Medical Correspondent, Chief Senior Medical Columnist, The New York Times

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A961958260

"But even with the hindsight of Mr. Reagan's diagnosis, his four main White House doctors say they never detected any evidence that his forgetfulness was more than just that. His mental competence in office, they said in a series of recent interviews, was never in doubt. Indeed, they pointed out, tests of his mental status did not begin to show evidence of the disease until the summer of 1993, more than four years after he left the White House.

'There was never anything that would raise a question about his ability to function as President,' said Dr. Lawrence C. Mohr, one of Mr. Reagan's physicians in his second term. 'Ronald Reagan's cognitive function, belief structure, judgment, ability to choose between options, behavior and ability to communicate were totally and completely intact.'"

-- Dr. Altman, again

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/147/story_14713_1.html

"Did Reagan have Alzheimer's disease in office? Yes and no. Without a doubt, he was on his way to getting the disease, which develops over many years. But it is equally clear that there was not yet nearly enough decline in function to support even a tentative diagnosis. Reagan's mind was well within the realm of normal functioning. Even if his doctors had been looking intently for Alzheimer's, it is still likely that they would not have been able to detect the disease-in-progress. A slight deterioration of memory is so common among the elderly that even today it is considered to be a natural (if unwelcome) consequence of aging. About a third to a half of all human beings experience some mild decline in memory as they get older, taking longer to learn directions, for example, or having some difficulty recalling names or numbers."

-- David Shenk, award-winning, national-bestselling author of five books, and a contributor to National Geographic, Slate, The New York Times, Gourmet, Harper's, The American Scholar, NPR and PBS, who has written about pandemics, music, technology, chess, politics, bioethics, the brain, corporate malfeasance and kids' toys, and who frequently lectures on health, education and technology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan...mer.27s_disease

"Reagan's doctors, however, note that he only began exhibiting overt symptoms of the illness in late 1992, several years after he had left office. His former staff also defended him; Chief of Staff James Baker considered 'ludicrous' the idea of Reagan sleeping during cabinet meetings."

--Wikipedia

So we have a physician and journalist, an award winning author who frequently speaks on the subject, and the ubiquitous Wikipedia article.

And then we have you. Who says something so close to what some boob on the other board said that it stuck in my memory even after all these months.

Yeah, I'll take your word for it.....

..........NOT

borat_lebanon0109.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JDaveG (2/7/2008)
braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
[No I did not make this statement before. And there are a NUMBER of people that worked with Reagan that have said this very thing.

Of course you didn't....

Since a NUMBER of people that worked with Reagan said this, why don't you provide names, quotes and citations.

Here, I'll start:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthr...es/s1126442.htm

"I was unable to find any evidence by any medical criteria that is known to the medical profession that Mr Regan had any symptoms or signs of Alzheimer s when he was President. The signs and symptoms developed several years after he left office, but interviews with senior Cabinet officials in his last term, with his doctors who treated him on a regular basis, and other people who knew him, could turn up no evidence that there was any incidence or incidents that suggested that he had Alzheimer s. And even his biographer didn t find any evidence of it."

-- Dr Larry Altman, Chief Medical Correspondent, Chief Senior Medical Columnist, The New York Times

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A961958260

"But even with the hindsight of Mr. Reagan's diagnosis, his four main White House doctors say they never detected any evidence that his forgetfulness was more than just that. His mental competence in office, they said in a series of recent interviews, was never in doubt. Indeed, they pointed out, tests of his mental status did not begin to show evidence of the disease until the summer of 1993, more than four years after he left the White House.

'There was never anything that would raise a question about his ability to function as President,'' said Dr. Lawrence C. Mohr, one of Mr. Reagan's physicians in his second term. ''Ronald Reagan's cognitive function, belief structure, judgment, ability to choose between options, behavior and ability to communicate were totally and completely intact.'"

-- Dr. Altman, again

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/147/story_14713_1.html

"Did Reagan have Alzheimer's disease in office? Yes and no. Without a doubt, he was on his way to getting the disease, which develops over many years. But it is equally clear that there was not yet nearly enough decline in function to support even a tentative diagnosis. Reagan's mind was well within the realm of normal functioning. Even if his doctors had been looking intently for Alzheimer's, it is still likely that they would not have been able to detect the disease-in-progress. A slight deterioration of memory is so common among the elderly that even today it is considered to be a natural (if unwelcome) consequence of aging. About a third to a half of all human beings experience some mild decline in memory as they get older, taking longer to learn directions, for example, or having some difficulty recalling names or numbers."

-- David Shenk, award-winning, national-bestselling author of five books, and a contributor to National Geographic, Slate, The New York Times, Gourmet, Harper's, The American Scholar, NPR and PBS, who has written about pandemics, music, technology, chess, politics, bioethics, the brain, corporate malfeasance and kids' toys, and who frequently lectures on health, education and technology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan...mer.27s_disease

"After his diagnosis, there was considerable speculation over whether Reagan had demonstrated symptoms of mental degeneration while in office. Former CBS White House Press Corps Lesley Stahl recalls in her book Reporting Live, an "unsettling" interview with the president where "a vacant Reagan barely seemed to realize anyone else was in the room", and that before he "reemerged into alertness" she recalls that "I had come that close to reporting that Reagan was senile." Reagan would also encounter occasional difficulty recalling names and titles, notably while meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Nakasone wherein he repeatedly referred to his Vice President as "Prime Minister Bush." Reagan's doctors, however, note that he only began exhibiting overt symptoms of the illness in late 1992, several years after he had left office. His former staff also defended him; Chief of Staff James Baker considered "ludicrous" the idea of Reagan sleeping during cabinet meetings."

--Wikipedia

So we have a physician and journalist, an award winning author who frequently speaks on the subject, and the ubiquitous Wikipedia article.

And then we have you. Who says something so close to what some boob on the other board said that it stuck in my memory even after all these months.

Yeah, I'll take your word for it.....

..........NOT

borat_lebanon0109.jpg

Pffft, those are obviously conservative scientists who will say anything to support their guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
Waterproof_ace83 (2/7/2008)
:)

He I forgot he was a big supporter of the 2nd biggest enemy we have faced Saddam.

I also forgot that he supported the apartheid. Also snake here is the link to where your GOD like HERO laid a wreath on Nazi SS soldiers graves in Bitberg.

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/06/internat...ope/06REAG.html

And I know the sheep that you are that you will make an 3excuse for this just like you have for everything else.

From your article:

Mr. Reagan, in his address, said: ''I have just come from the cemetery where German war dead lay at rest. No one could visit here without deep and conflicting emotions.''

He added: ''The evil world of Nazism turned all values upside down. Nevertheless, we can mourn the German war dead today as human beings, crushed by a vicious ideology.''

FYI - On this trip he also layed a wreath at a concentration camp and spoke of its horrors. You make it sound like he was goosestepping and singing the praises of Hitler.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JDaveG (2/7/2008)
braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
Oh yeah, I forgot the fact that he was in the early stages of Alzheimer's when he took office and was getting bad at the end of his Presidency.

This is not a factual statement. There is ZERO evidence that Reagan had any signs or symptoms of Alzheimer's AT ALL while in office. He certainly was not in the "early stages" in 1980, because he'd have been dead long before he actually departed this earth.

My recollection is you made this statement on the old boards, and it was debunked there. If that's the case, you should be ashamed for repeating it. If not, do some research. The truth is out there.

I'm not trying to debate whether Reagan had Alzheimers or not. But "The duration of survival following a diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease depends critically on the subject's age at diagnosis. The results of this study indicate that the median survival of patients with Alzheimer's disease could range from nearly 9 years for persons diagnosed at age 65 to approximately 3 years for persons diagnosed at age 90 years," said Ronald Brookmeyer, PhD, professor of biostatistics at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

http://www.alzheimersupport.com/library/sh...cle.cfm/id/1840

Link to comment
Share on other sites

holymoses (2/8/2008)
I'm not trying to debate whether Reagan had Alzheimers or not. But "The duration of survival following a diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease depends critically on the subject's age at diagnosis. The results of this study indicate that the median survival of patients with Alzheimer's disease could range from nearly 9 years for persons diagnosed at age 65 to approximately 3 years for persons diagnosed at age 90 years," said Ronald Brookmeyer, PhD, professor of biostatistics at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

http://www.alzheimersupport.com/library/sh...cle.cfm/id/1840

I'm fully aware of that, which is exactly why I made the statement. Reagan was in office for 8 years. He wasn't even diagnosed until 1993. If he had "the early stages of Alzheimer's" when he took office in 1980 (which implies that a diagnosis could have been made, because how can you "have" a disease the doctors cannot even diagnose?), he NEVER would have lived until 2004.

In itself, it is no small miracle that he lived nearly 11 years after being diagnosed. Had he had the disease in 1980, he would not have lived another 24 years. The statement is not only a made up farce, but it is nonsensical on its face. In other words, it's a REALLY bad lie, because it's not only untrue, it's actually untenable.

FWIW, our grandmother and my wife's grandmother died of Alzheimer's. I'm pretty familiar with it, which is another reason the implications of the statement offend me. It's an attempt to use a caricature of a very real, horrible disease to slander a President.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DomeGnome (2/7/2008)
A Conservative hero through and through.

Who will ever forget Reagan providing amnesty to 3.7 million illegal aliens in 1987.

which of course he did without the approval of the democrat-controlled congress :hehe:

/sarcasm off

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JDaveG (2/7/2008)
braves_n_falcons (2/7/2008)
[No I did not make this statement before. And there are a NUMBER of people that worked with Reagan that have said this very thing.

Of course you didn't....

Since a NUMBER of people that worked with Reagan said this, why don't you provide names, quotes and citations.

Here, I'll start:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthr...es/s1126442.htm

"I was unable to find any evidence by any medical criteria that is known to the medical profession that Mr Regan had any symptoms or signs of Alzheimer s when he was President. The signs and symptoms developed several years after he left office, but interviews with senior Cabinet officials in his last term, with his doctors who treated him on a regular basis, and other people who knew him, could turn up no evidence that there was any incidence or incidents that suggested that he had Alzheimer s. And even his biographer didn t find any evidence of it."

-- Dr Larry Altman, Chief Medical Correspondent, Chief Senior Medical Columnist, The New York Times

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A961958260

"But even with the hindsight of Mr. Reagan's diagnosis, his four main White House doctors say they never detected any evidence that his forgetfulness was more than just that. His mental competence in office, they said in a series of recent interviews, was never in doubt. Indeed, they pointed out, tests of his mental status did not begin to show evidence of the disease until the summer of 1993, more than four years after he left the White House.

'There was never anything that would raise a question about his ability to function as President,' said Dr. Lawrence C. Mohr, one of Mr. Reagan's physicians in his second term. 'Ronald Reagan's cognitive function, belief structure, judgment, ability to choose between options, behavior and ability to communicate were totally and completely intact.'"

-- Dr. Altman, again

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/147/story_14713_1.html

"Did Reagan have Alzheimer's disease in office? Yes and no. Without a doubt, he was on his way to getting the disease, which develops over many years. But it is equally clear that there was not yet nearly enough decline in function to support even a tentative diagnosis. Reagan's mind was well within the realm of normal functioning. Even if his doctors had been looking intently for Alzheimer's, it is still likely that they would not have been able to detect the disease-in-progress. A slight deterioration of memory is so common among the elderly that even today it is considered to be a natural (if unwelcome) consequence of aging. About a third to a half of all human beings experience some mild decline in memory as they get older, taking longer to learn directions, for example, or having some difficulty recalling names or numbers."

-- David Shenk, award-winning, national-bestselling author of five books, and a contributor to National Geographic, Slate, The New York Times, Gourmet, Harper's, The American Scholar, NPR and PBS, who has written about pandemics, music, technology, chess, politics, bioethics, the brain, corporate malfeasance and kids' toys, and who frequently lectures on health, education and technology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan...mer.27s_disease

"Reagan's doctors, however, note that he only began exhibiting overt symptoms of the illness in late 1992, several years after he had left office. His former staff also defended him; Chief of Staff James Baker considered 'ludicrous' the idea of Reagan sleeping during cabinet meetings."

--Wikipedia

So we have a physician and journalist, an award winning author who frequently speaks on the subject, and the ubiquitous Wikipedia article.

And then we have you. Who says something so close to what some boob on the other board said that it stuck in my memory even after all these months.

Yeah, I'll take your word for it.....

..........NOT

borat_lebanon0109.jpg

OK, I haven't used this in a long time, but it fits so nicely here...

O-W-N-E-D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...