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Now that we are reorganizing the team, who will be gone?


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lets look at how much several people made this year and I leave it up to you to gauge their worth.

brooking $7,197,000

dunn $6,278,000

coleman $5,919,000

forney $3,852,000

gandy $3,751,000

horn $2,000,000

finneran $1,743,000

All of these salaries will be MORE for 2008 as of right now we are 5.8 million under the cap. I am not sure if that covers the $7.6 million of dead money we had this year for webster and hartwell.

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DavidsonFalcon (2/7/2008)
brooking $7,197,000 - Paycut or GONE

dunn $6,278,000 - Paycut or GONE

coleman $5,919,000 - Not sure - health is a big issue

forney $3,852,000 - GONE

gandy $3,751,000 - GONE

horn $2,000,000 - GONE

finneran $1,743,000 - GONE

I pretty much agree here. I see Coleman stickingand maybe Forney. But I'd say the rest are gone. Warrick may need to renegotiate to stick.

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trubirdfan4life (2/7/2008)
lets look at how much several people made this year and I leave it up to you to gauge their worth.

brooking $7,197,000

dunn $6,278,000

coleman $5,919,000

forney $3,852,000

gandy $3,751,000

horn $2,000,000

finneran $1,743,000

All of these salaries will be MORE for 2008 as of right now we are 5.8 million under the cap. I am not sure if that covers the $7.6 million of dead money we had this year for webster and hartwell.

coleman if he's healthy.

forney if that cap isn't any higher than that.

finneran if he still got legs. Dat about it.

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trubirdfan4life (2/7/2008)
lets look at how much several people made this year and I leave it up to you to gauge their worth.

brooking $7,197,000

dunn $6,278,000

coleman $5,919,000

forney $3,852,000

gandy $3,751,000

horn $2,000,000

finneran $1,743,000

All of these salaries will be MORE for 2008 as of right now we are 5.8 million under the cap. I am not sure if that covers the $7.6 million of dead money we had this year for webster and hartwell.

Our FO and coaching staff are in a honeymoon period. Now is the time to clean house. I really like just about everyone on that list, but we can not afford them. They all go.

I would try to trade McClure and Forney as a package to a team that is switching to the zone blocking style. I would take a second or third rounder for the pair. I would also trade D Hall for a first rounder. Sorry, but Hall is not a guy that can withstand a rebuilding project.

I would keep Crumpler because he still has at least three more years of high quality value to this team and to our new QB (who ever that may be). Crump's knee will get better with the rest and he will show up to camp in proper shape.

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Not looking talent just looking dollars for 2008

Brooking - Cap hit for this year if cut Approx 11 Million - Don't cut 8 million - Keep

Dunn - Cap hit for this year if cut Approx 4 Million - Don't cut 7.5 million - Cut

Coleman - Cap hit for this year if cut Approx 4.5 Million - Don't cut 8 million - Restructure - if not Cut

Forney - Cap hit for this year if cut Approx 3 Million - Don't cut 5 million - Push

Gandy - Cap hit for this year if cut Approx 1 Million - Don't cut 5 million - Cut

Horn - Cap hit for this year if cut Approx 15 Million - Don't cut 6 million - Keep - he has gaurenteed money this year so if we cut him we take the pro-rated signing bonus hit as well as base salary hit for 2008

Finneran - Cap hit for this year if cut Approx 1 Million - Don't cut 2.5 million - Push - if injured again push him for retirement then we get full cap relief

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trubirdfan4life (2/7/2008)
sanders didn't make any money 620,000

jennings made 383,000

D-mo is a free agent

jimmy williams will stay at least through camp.I think mike smith will get something out of him

jimmy did make 750,000

harrington is gone 2.1 mil

I wasn't speaking strictly in terms of cap money..those are just the people I think we should either cut or not re-sign.

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BruceReville (2/7/2008)

Horn - Cap hit for this year if cut Approx 15 Million - Don't cut 6 million - Keep - he has gaurenteed money this year so if we cut him we take the pro-rated signing bonus hit as well as base salary hit for 2008

Horn's contract included a $4 million signing bonus. Where are you getting that $15 million number? One million was accounted for in 2007's cap. If he is cut before the June deadline, it should just be a cap hit of $1.5 million this year and $1.5 in 2009.

Base Salaries don't count against the cap if the player is cut.

Maybe you just forgot the decimal point.

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It's easy to look at the salaries and say we can save this much money but do not forget that their replacements have to be paid..

Would you replace brooking with T. Taylor or Travis Williams?? if you naswer NO then hhow much would you have to pay a FA to replace him?

Same for Coleman, Forney, and Dunn

So its a lot of money but by the time you pay their replacements it will drop a whole lot.

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btheman71 (2/7/2008)
BruceReville (2/7/2008)

Horn - Cap hit for this year if cut Approx 15 Million - Don't cut 6 million - Keep - he has gaurenteed money this year so if we cut him we take the pro-rated signing bonus hit as well as base salary hit for 2008

Horn's contract included a $4 million signing bonus. Where are you getting that $15 million number? One million was accounted for in 2007's cap. If he is cut before the June deadline, it should just be a cap hit of $1.5 million this year and $1.5 in 2009.

Base Salaries don't count against the cap if the player is cut.

Maybe you just forgot the decimal point.

Horn's contract has a gaurentee of 7.5 million for the first 2 years - if he is cut he would automatically get 6.5 million (7.5 minus 1 million in base salary paid last year) plus we would take the hit for his signing bonus which would be 3 million - so it would be a 10.5 million dollar cap hit -- and I just noticed I typed it in wrong as 15 - lol (**** Decimal Point)

Sorry bout that - but it would still come out to 10.5 million - it would not be feasible to cut him this year

EDIT: And I noticed I can't add as well 9.5 million - Sheesh Bruce -- still way too expensive this year - wait until next year where the cap hit may only be 2.5 million

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BruceReville (2/7/2008)
Horn's contract has a gaurentee of 7.5 million for the first 2 years - if he is cut he would automatically get 6.5 million (7.5 minus 1 million in base salary paid last year) plus we would take the hit for his signing bonus which would be 3 million - so it would be a 10.5 million dollar cap hit -- and I just noticed I typed it in wrong as 15 - lol (**** Decimal Point)

Sorry bout that - but it would still come out to 10.5 million - it would not be feasible to cut him this year

EDIT: And I noticed I can't add as well 9.5 million - Sheesh Bruce -- still way too expensive this year - wait until next year where the cap hit may only be 2.5 million

LOL...I'm not that familiar with the particulars of his contract. I know he got a $4 million signing bonus and there is $2.5 million available in incentives.

What is the $7.5 million in guaranteed money? It has to be classified as something, roster bonus, signing bonus, etc. It makes a difference on how it affects the cap and when they cut him.

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What is the $7.5 million in guaranteed money? It has to be classified as something, roster bonus, signing bonus, etc. It makes a difference on how it affects the cap and when they cut him.

Guarenteed money is just as it says -- basically it is money he gets regardless of being cut that he will receive no ifs - ands - or buts about it (And he has this guarentee for the first 2 years of his contract) - only if he decided to retire does the guarentee go away - and all 100% will be added as a cap hit if we cut him - he has received 1 million in base salary so that leaves 6.5 million in guarenteed money - signing bonus does not equate into this money as it is reflected as a seperate type of money that is pro-rated over the length of his contract - so even if they wait until after June 1st to cut him the 6.5 will roll-over into 2009's cap figure because he was cut during the 2008 season

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I could be wrong, but it looks like his contract included a total of $7.5 million in "guaranteed" bonuses over the first two years. Signing bonus is guaranteed money, of which he got $4 million.

So, the Falcons would probably be up against a cap hit of $6.5 million (at most) if they cut him. Which is $7.5 million minus the $1 million paid against the cap last year.

They are not responsible for ANY of his base salary if they cut him before the June deadline.

Horns total contract is $19 million, which includes the $7.5 in guaranteed bonuses. He is scheduled to make $2.5 in 2008, $2.9 in 2009, and $4.6 in 2010. So, if you add up all of those years and the $7.5, it equals $17.5 million. So he must have got $1.5 million in base salary last year to bring the total up to $19 million. Which means up to this point he has been paid a total of $5.5 million by the Falcons ($4 signing bonus + $1.5 in base salary for 2007).

So it is not possible that the signing bonus is outside of the $7.5 million.

I'm not trying to badger this to death, I'm just curious to understand it.

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btheman71 (2/7/2008)
I could be wrong, but it looks like his contract included a total of $7.5 million in "guaranteed" bonuses over the first two years. Signing bonus is guaranteed money, of which he got $4 million.

So, the Falcons would probably be up against a cap hit of $6.5 million (at most) if they cut him. Which is $7.5 million minus the $1 million paid against the cap last year.

They are not responsible for ANY of his base salary if they cut him before the June deadline.

Horns total contract is $19 million, which includes the $7.5 in guaranteed bonuses. He is scheduled to make $2.5 in 2008, $2.9 in 2009, and $4.6 in 2010. So, if you add up all of those years and the $7.5, it equals $17.5 million. So he must have got $1.5 million in salary last year to bring the total up to $19 million.

So it is not possible that the signing bonus is outside of the $7.5 million.

I'm not trying to badger this to death, I'm just curious to understand it.

His base salary last year was only 1 million dollars and a cap hit of 1 million for his signing bonus - his cap hit was only 2 million last year - guarenteed bonuses even though called bonuses are still guarenteed money regardless and count toward cap if he is cut because the contract guarentees it for 2 years - after 2 years the guarenteed bonus will then be prorated out over the remainder of his contract - it's kind of a way to keep the cap to a minimum for teams for a couple of years as it doesn't count towards the cap until after the guarenteed period has expired - then if he is cut it goes into dead money status which is prorated out over a period equal to the remaining length of his contract - but also can work against the team if they are hamstrung by an under-performing player for if they cut him it all comes back as one lump cap hit sum

Here is an article which gives examples of pros & cons on guarenteed bonuses for pro athletes - and as long as I don't have a cell phone in the car - BADGER AWAY!!!! - Lol

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/08/sports/f...8guarantee.html

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I understand what guaranteed money is, but they can't just say "guaranteed money" in his contract. It has to be classified as something.

$4 million of his guaranteed money is his signing bonus which he has already been paid. Since it is a 4 year contract, the Falcons account for $1 million of that against the cap in each year of his contract.

I don't know how the other $3.5 million of guaranteed money is classified. One web site called it incentive bonuses. That could be anything like catches, games played, etc. But that would be more like LTE or "Likely To Be Earned" money and not YTE "Yet To Be Earned."

But it has to be classified as something. Not just "guaranteed." Different kinds of guaranteed monies are treated differently under the cap.

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btheman71 (2/7/2008)
I understand what guaranteed money is, but they can't just say "guaranteed money" in his contract. It has to be classified as something.

$4 million of his guaranteed money is his signing bonus which he has already been paid. Since it is a 4 year contract, the Falcons account for $1 million of that against the cap in each year of his contract.

I don't know how the other $3.5 million of guaranteed money is classified. One web site called it incentive bonuses. That could be anything like catches, games played, etc. But that would be more like LTE or "Likely To Be Earned" money and not YTE "Yet To Be Earned."

But it has to be classified as something. Not just "guaranteed." Different kinds of guaranteed monies are treated differently under the cap.

Hmmm - honestly I don't know what it would be classified under - can't be incentive unless the incentive is to honor the contract and not try to renegotiate -- I know some team have actually put that in after the TO/Philly Incident

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