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Sedrick Ellis seems to be favored over Dorsey by a lot of posters.


halsey
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I'm a USC fan so that's part of it. I actually really like both of them a lot and wouldn't be disappointed with either one. The thing that turns me off about Dorsey though is that I read an article that I think said that he had some sort of bone condition and he wore braces on both legs for quite some time to help correct the problem. Now I don't know if this condition even effects him anymore, but it's something that should raise an alarm.

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from what i can tell, ellis is more of a UT, and dorsey is more of a NT. dorsey can dominate the game from NT, and ellis from UT. but UT's generally put more pressure on the QB with their pass rush, and i dont think dorsey is as good of a pass rusher as ellis. however, he is an excellent penetrator and is great against the run, but ellis is also very good against the run. there is a reason a lot of sites have them ranked overall #2 and #3, they are both very, very good.

i have us getting ellis in my newest mock, but the pick is made simpler because dorsey was already off the board.

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I like Ellis more mostly BC I think with Ellis's Power and strong build that he will have less injuries and miss less time BC of that , Plus Ellis is a better Penatrator and Run Stuffer , Ellis could play anywhere on the line , I know he most likly will not play DE , but he could , he is that good and the Strongest player in the Draft , I've never seen a DT that could use his arms as well as Ellis . He is a powerfull man and DEMANDS a Double team every snap, and I mean every snap! And he is the most for sure player in this draft . IMO.

Bottom line thou to me is that Dorsey tends to get injured more for some reason. And if he has injuries often in College , I wonder how long he can last against NFL OL. We will find out at the combines , but I think Dorsey has about 10% more body fat than Ellis , Dorsey is over wieght and out o shape compaired to Ellis who has much more muscle mass than Dorsey.

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If you're worried about injury history, Dorsey is the clear choice over Ellis. The latter player missed several games last year due to cartilage issues and was a redshirt as a freshman after seriously breaking his ankle during two-a-days. Dorsey hasn't missed a game since high school. He even played through a stress fracture last year. Players don't come any tougher than him.

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"2003: Ellis redshirted as a freshman defensive tackle in 2003, his first year at USC. He suffered a left ankle fracture in 2003 fall practice, played briefly against BYU and then had midseason surgery, forcing him to miss the rest of the 2003 season..."

"2006: Ellis was impressive once again while starting for the second year at nose tackle as a junior in 2006. Overall in 2006 while starting 10 games, he had 34 tackles, including 8 for losses of 47 yards (with 4.5 sacks for minus 37 yards), plus 2 fumble recoveries, 1 forced fumble, a blocked field goal (at Stanford that USC returned for a touchdown) and 3 deflections. He tore cartilage in his right knee prior to the Nebraska game and had arthroscopic surgery, sidelining him for 3 games"

http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl..._sedrick00.html

I'm not saying Ellis is injury prone, but he stayed at USC 5 years for a reason. The Fact that he's older might help in strength comparisons to younger, less physically developed players.

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grendel, you have a point. dorsey may go #1 though (i still think he could, its either dorsey or long imo) but if he doesnt, we have a very good shot at him. if we end up with #5 then ellis could go at #3 so we would be left with the best consolation prize ever in glenn dorsey at #5, supposing he wasnt picked first.

but i would love either one. if we got dorsey then we could try to pick up trevor laws or lionel dotson (2 guys i am very high on now for the UT position) to add depth along with babineaux and trey lewis. if we did get dorsey, we could add ryan starks in free agency and maybe get carlton powell, dt, virginia tech to add a #3 NT behind dorsey, starks and powell.

look at this dline:

abraham

dorsey/starks/powell

babineaux/dotson/lewis

anderson/chauncey/dotson

thats a good defensive line. we could try and add chris ellis, but i dont think we have a good shot at that, id love to see that happen though.

thats just my rant about it, id be very happy with that.

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I would be very happy with either of them, to me they are both near perfect dt prospects. They are big and strong enough to play nose and quick enough to play ut and finally dang near unblockable one on one. the one thing that makes me want dorsey more is the fact that he still dominated while being injured, anyone with that kind of toughness could have a spot one my team anyday.

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moe szyslak (2/6/2008)
somecut8 (2/6/2008)
plus, dorsey is more of a ut and ellis is more of a nt. we need a nt more than a ut.

you have that backwards. Dorsey in the NT and Ellis is the UT

thank you! i know ellis played NT at southern cal, but he is a UT plain and simple at the next level, and he will be a good one. just like dorsey will be a good NT at the next level.

for me, it just depends which one is available.

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I'm not a scout...but I think most people have this wrong..

Dorsey is an UT, not a NT. If you evaluate him as a NT, he has no value in the top 15. I think Ellis is a better run stuffer, and a better NT prospect.(he's probably all of half an inch shorter than Dorsey, if that, and he's got more muscle mass, plays with better leverage, is significantly stronger, has better burst and overall athleticism, and is just as(or nearly as, anyway) as quick as Dorsey...and he uses his hands wonderfully and plays hard every down. I think Ellis can play NT, UT, De in the 3-4, maybe even DT in the 3-4...****, maybe even LE in the 4-3...he's sure as **** control the edge, and I'd be willing to bet he'd get more sacks than Anderson did. Dorsey is more limited, is coming off of a serious injury, isn't in nearly as good shape, isn't as strong, might not be as athletic, and hasn't been quite as productive....

And we need an UT, more than NT, IMO. Coleman is probably gone...and the Tampa 2 demands pressure from inside.

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I'd gladly take either one, but I'm bigger on Ellis because I believe we have a better chance of actually landing him. If we draft either of them, I will probably wet myself from excitement. :w00t:

Getting into specifics though, I believe it's very hard to break them down to find which one is the truly better prospect. They are so similar it's scary. Dorsey is a little bigger and a little heavier, has great penetration, and stuffs the run very well. Ellis isn't as big as Dorsey, but he's a little quicker and has better technique... also has incredible penetration, while being able to stuff the run.

Both of them can very effectively play UT or NT in a 4-3... and I believe both are tailor made for a 4-3 scheme, though Ellis did work in some 3-4 and hybrid sets at USC very well when they dialed them up.

It's a win-win pick if that's who we are deciding between. I believe Dorsey will go before Ellis, though.

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mr pickle (2/6/2008)
I'm not a scout...but I think most people have this wrong..

Dorsey is an UT, not a NT. If you evaluate him as a NT, he has no value in the top 15. I think Ellis is a better run stuffer, and a better NT prospect.(he's probably all of half an inch shorter than Dorsey, if that, and he's got more muscle mass, plays with better leverage, is significantly stronger, has better burst and overall athleticism, and is just as(or nearly as, anyway) as quick as Dorsey...and he uses his hands wonderfully and plays hard every down. I think Ellis can play NT, UT, De in the 3-4, maybe even DT in the 3-4...****, maybe even LE in the 4-3...he's sure as **** control the edge, and I'd be willing to bet he'd get more sacks than Anderson did. Dorsey is more limited, is coming off of a serious injury, isn't in nearly as good shape, isn't as strong, might not be as athletic, and hasn't been quite as productive....

And we need an UT, more than NT, IMO. Coleman is probably gone...and the Tampa 2 demands pressure from inside.

sorry man but most of that is just not true. Dorsey is the better run stuffer and is bigger while Ellis is quicker and the better penetrater. Dorsey can probably play both well and is more versatile but Ellis in a 4-3 is a UT. He is the Rod Coleman type not the Grady Jackson type. (obviously I m not comparing skill levels with those players only positions) yes it is true that Ellis has impeccable technique and uses his hands well and he MAY be able to play DE in a 3-4 but certainly not in a 4-3. Ellis is a stereotypical three-technique tackle.

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moe szyslak (2/6/2008)
mr pickle (2/6/2008)
I'm not a scout...but I think most people have this wrong..

Dorsey is an UT, not a NT. If you evaluate him as a NT, he has no value in the top 15. I think Ellis is a better run stuffer, and a better NT prospect.(he's probably all of half an inch shorter than Dorsey, if that, and he's got more muscle mass, plays with better leverage, is significantly stronger, has better burst and overall athleticism, and is just as(or nearly as, anyway) as quick as Dorsey...and he uses his hands wonderfully and plays hard every down. I think Ellis can play NT, UT, De in the 3-4, maybe even DT in the 3-4...****, maybe even LE in the 4-3...he's sure as **** control the edge, and I'd be willing to bet he'd get more sacks than Anderson did. Dorsey is more limited, is coming off of a serious injury, isn't in nearly as good shape, isn't as strong, might not be as athletic, and hasn't been quite as productive....

And we need an UT, more than NT, IMO. Coleman is probably gone...and the Tampa 2 demands pressure from inside.

sorry man but most of that is just not true. Dorsey is the better run stuffer and is bigger while Ellis is quicker and the better penetrater. Dorsey can probably play both well and is more versatile but Ellis in a 4-3 is a UT. He is the Rod Coleman type not the Grady Jackson type. (obviously I m not comparing skill levels with those players only positions) yes it is true that Ellis has impeccable technique and uses his hands well and he MAY be able to play DE in a 3-4 but certainly not in a 4-3. Ellis is a stereotypical three-technique tackle.

Sorry but most people say that Ellis is the beter runstuffer.

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virginiafalcon (2/6/2008)
I would rather have Dorsey over Ellis, but I've just been assuming he will have been picked by the time we get to draft in the 1st round. If they are BOTH there, that will be one **** of a decision to make.

In looking at the board, if we pick at #3 overall, I think it's quite likely both of them are on the board. The Rams just brought in two quality rookie DTs last season. They're not even a consideration. Miami could take Ellis for the 3-4, but Dorsey is more of a 4-3 guy. So, I don't think he's on their board. As long as they take anyone but Ellis, we get a shot at both guys.

In fact, in running scenarios this morning, I came to a realization. If the Falcons wanted to aggressively attack their d-line, expending a tremendous amount of cap space on it in the process, the Hall deal would allow for the following. (Feel free to disagree, everyone, this is sheer speculation.)

1) Miami - Matt Ryan...funniest #1 overall pick ever, but teams consistently overdraft QBs. In looking over their options, I honestly hate them all. In a year where only one player, McFadden, is a cut above, there are nine other players I could justify the Dolphins taking here.

2) St. Louis - Jake Long...with Pace retiring, a long term solution for the position will be appealing. With Barron, Long and Incognito, the Rams could have a solid line again in 2008. I have to believe that's appealing to them. This pick could easily be Clady, but the philosophy is the same. Protecting Marc Bulger and opening up holes for Steven Jackson are both things Long can do, albeit one better than the other.

3) Atlanta Falcons - Chris Long...beauty of this pick is that on plays where Abe is off the field, Anderson can move back to his natural position on the weak side. Everyone forgets that he was learning a new position last year. Long is a true strong side DE. We'd have our end tandem for the next five years with a healthy (hopefully) Abe in the rotation the first couple of them.

4) Oakland Raiders - Sedrick Ellis...I believe that they will do everything in their power to get the scion of Howie Long. Plan B would be to find a player who can replace Warren Sapp, who played surprisingly well for them last year given his advanced age. I suspect they would slot him next to Burgess, thereby creating weakside fits for the defense. Dorsey at the nose is also intriguing but given the way Davis covets quick twitch, Ellis' athleticism gives him the nod for this team.

5) Kansas City Chiefs - Ryan Clady...If I were betting on a pick no one else is talking up yet, this would be the one. For a decade, KC won football games due to the most consistent offensive line in football. Two retirements later, it was left in shambles. People keep trying to link them to QBs, which is crazy. They need a long term solution at LT, and this is the guy.

6) NY Jets - Darren McFadden...as crazy as it sounds, I envision multiple scenarios wherein -- barring a trade up -- the best RB in the class falls out of the top 5. Were this to happen, the reaction would be the core opposite of the Mike Nugent draft pick. The entire building might erupt in spontaneous orgasm. When I look at the board, however, I keep noticing that Miami, St. Louis and KC all have solutions at the RB position. Miami's is a bit shakier due to injury, but the other two are not taking McFadden. That means that if Atlanta or Oakland does not bite, he is on the board for the all-too-giddy Jets.

7) Atlanta (after trading Hall to the Pats) - Glenn Dorsey.

Several things have to go right for the pieces to fit, but it's there. The Falcons would have a starting DL of Anderson, Dorsey, Abraham and Lewis with Long getting a ton of snaps across the board. Frankly, I can justify this in a lot of ways save for the salary cap issue. Abe has four years left at about $7.5 million annually and Anderson makes a guaranteed $3 million a year that could be double if he reaches incentives. The #7 pick would make about that while the #3 pick would be about $4.8 million a year guaranteed. So, that would be about $19 million in cap space for four players on the line. The good news would be that Lewis is a steal for the next three seasons while Hall's contract would be about $2.6 million off the books.

This very scenario is why I asked if people would trade Hall for the #7. The idea of us getting two players from what I presume would be the foursome of Long, Dorsey, Ellis and McFadden is...well, wow.

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Draftnut57 (2/6/2008)

Sorry but most people say that Ellis is the beter runstuffer.

Not that I've seen nor should they.

Dorsey's tackles totals are 69, 64, 28, 18 (179 total).

Ellis's tackles totals are 58, 34, 50, 2 (144 total).

If you want to say that Ellis is the more disruptive pass rusher, I'm with you. Dorsey is clearly superior in collapsing the run, though. The way his presence impacts the run game is as impressive as I have ever seen from a DT, and I saw every game of John Henderson and Albert Haynesworth's careers.

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jidady (2/7/2008)
Draftnut57 (2/6/2008)

Sorry but most people say that Ellis is the beter runstuffer.

Not that I've seen nor should they.

Dorsey's tackles totals are 69, 64, 28, 18 (179 total).

Ellis's tackles totals are 58, 34, 50, 2 (144 total).

If you want to say that Ellis is the more disruptive pass rusher, I'm with you. Dorsey is clearly superior in collapsing the run, though. The way his presence impacts the run game is as impressive as I have ever seen from a DT, and I saw every game of John Henderson and Albert Haynesworth's careers.

yeah if you want to see how great Dorsey was against the run just watch LSU the first 8 games of the year when he was healthy and then look how everyone ran all over them after he was hurt. i have never seen anyone (other than Draftnut) say Ellis was better at stopping the run. don't get me wrong, Ellis is good against the run and a great pass rusher while Dorsey is great against the run and a very good pass rusher. they are both great players but there is a reason Dorsey is the top DT in this draft on everyone's board. he is more versatile and can fit into any team's scheme while Ellis can not. the great news for us though is they both fit perfectly here.

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moe szyslak (2/6/2008)
mr pickle (2/6/2008)
I'm not a scout...but I think most people have this wrong.

Dorsey is an UT, not a NT. If you evaluate him as a NT, he has no value in the top 15. I think Ellis is a better run stuffer, and a better NT prospect.(he's probably all of half an inch shorter than Dorsey, if that, and he's got more muscle mass, plays with better leverage, is significantly stronger, has better burst and overall athleticism, and is just as(or nearly as, anyway) as quick as Dorsey...and he uses his hands wonderfully and plays hard every down. I think Ellis can play NT, UT, De in the 3-4, maybe even DT in the 3-4...****, maybe even LE in the 4-3...he's sure as **** control the edge, and I'd be willing to bet he'd get more sacks than Anderson did. Dorsey is more limited, is coming off of a serious injury, isn't in nearly as good shape, isn't as strong, might not be as athletic, and hasn't been quite as productive....

And we need an UT, more than NT, IMO. Coleman is probably gone...and the Tampa 2 demands pressure from inside.

orry man but most of that is just not true. Dorsey is the better run stuffer and is bigger while Ellis is quicker and the better penetrater. Dorsey can probably play both well and is more versatile but Ellis in a 4-3 is a UT. He is the Rod Coleman type not the Grady Jackson type. (obviously I m not comparing skill levels with those players only positions) yes it is true that Ellis has impeccable technique and uses his hands well and he MAY be able to play DE in a 3-4 but certainly not in a 4-3. Ellis is a stereotypical three-technique tackle.

Sir...you are wrong...and you'll see it ome drat day and their respective careers. Dorsey is fatter...and may weigh 10 pounds more than a much trimmer Ellis, at best...Ellis is stronger and more athletic...and uses his hands just as well...and has a slightly lower center of gravity. Look, Rod Coleman is 285, a former Lb'r, and sucks against the run...Ellis is 308, with low bodyfat, a lifelong DT, and dominates against the run...their only similarity is they are both outstanding interior passrushers. Ellis is....I'm not even sure who to compare him to...he's outstanding against the run and pass, and he can take on two blockers, or penetrate as well as anyone I've seen. He could play DE in the 4-3...he's quicker than most RT's, and stronger as well...that combination would net him pressure and he'd destroy runs at his edge. Dorsey is stereotypical UT, who is more disruptive against the run than the pass.

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