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All the complaints that GOPers have about McCain make me want to vote for him...


Ramen
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I would think the GOP would WANT someone with a great shot at beating the Dems.

What will GOPers get if they nominate Romney or someone very conservative? A Democrat. Perhaps Hillary.

I'd prefer Obama to any of the GOPers, and I'd prefer McCain to Hillary even after all the pandering.

I don't understand why the GOP is attacking their strongest presidential candidate. You'd think given the current political environment (sour public mood, Bush with 35% approval, desire for a change in direction), they would view McCain as a Godsend for their party.

What am I missing?

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Ramen (2/1/2008)
I would think the GOP would WANT someone with a great shot at beating the Dems.

What will GOPers get if they nominate Romney or someone very conservative? A Democrat. Perhaps Hillary.

I'd prefer Obama to any of the GOPers, and I'd prefer McCain to Hillary even after all the pandering.

I don't understand why the GOP is attacking their strongest presidential candidate. You'd think given the current political environment (sour public mood, Bush with 35% approval, desire for a change in direction), they would view McCain as a Godsend for their party.

What am I missing?

The fact that Stevens is going to die.

Rest assured: The Conservatives will RALLY around McCain like he WAS Reagan incarnate. The mantra I heard over and over and over today was "It's all about the Judges". They see the next President as a golden opportunitty to shift the ideology of the Supreme Court to a very narrow Constitutional Construction (ie . . . screw individual liberty)

You think I'm kidding? They were talking about the biggest mistake Reagan made: Appointing Sandra Day O'Connor to the Supreme Court.

Really want to vote for McCain?

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Ramen (2/1/2008)
I would think the GOP would WANT someone with a great shot at beating the Dems.

What will GOPers get if they nominate Romney or someone very conservative? A Democrat. Perhaps Hillary.

I'd prefer Obama to any of the GOPers, and I'd prefer McCain to Hillary even after all the pandering.

I don't understand why the GOP is attacking their strongest presidential candidate. You'd think given the current political environment (sour public mood, Bush with 35% approval, desire for a change in direction), they would view McCain as a Godsend for their party.

What am I missing?

You're missing the fact that McCain wasn't even able to beat out mr. bush in 2000. Haha, can you imagine the clinton machine, or obama's intelligence and powerful message on stage with a loser to bush at the debates!!!!

As for the judges, you're wrong there too. McCain is fairly moderate, and not likely to select a highly conservative justice. Romney and Huckabee surely will.

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charlestonchad (2/1/2008)
Ramen (2/1/2008)
I would think the GOP would WANT someone with a great shot at beating the Dems.

What will GOPers get if they nominate Romney or someone very conservative? A Democrat. Perhaps Hillary.

I'd prefer Obama to any of the GOPers, and I'd prefer McCain to Hillary even after all the pandering.

I don't understand why the GOP is attacking their strongest presidential candidate. You'd think given the current political environment (sour public mood, Bush with 35% approval, desire for a change in direction), they would view McCain as a Godsend for their party.

What am I missing?

You're missing the fact that McCain wasn't even able to beat out mr. bush in 2000. Haha, can you imagine the clinton machine, or obama's intelligence and powerful message on stage with a loser to bush at the debates!!!!

As for the judges, you're wrong there too. McCain is fairly moderate, and not likely to select a highly conservative justice. Romney and Huckabee surely will.

Have you been reading my "Nov. 5th headline" thread???

As for the judges . . . I WANT to believe you, but I can't be sure. McCain is SUCH an enigma. He has the reputation of a moderate but has a near perfect record on social conservative issues (which is to say perfectly horrible in my opinion) he wants called Falwell and his ilk the "agents of intolerance" but has since been kissing the religious right's #####.

And he HAS promised to appoint strict Constructionists . . . but the religious right still doesn't trust him . . . and neither do I.

For a guy who is a maverick, he does a TON of flip flopping and can pander with the best of him.

So he's a wild card on the appointments. It's not worth the risk. I'm voting for the Democrat.

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holymoses (2/1/2008)
charlestonchad (2/1/2008)
Ramen (2/1/2008)
I would think the GOP would WANT someone with a great shot at beating the Dems.

What will GOPers get if they nominate Romney or someone very conservative? A Democrat. Perhaps Hillary.

I'd prefer Obama to any of the GOPers, and I'd prefer McCain to Hillary even after all the pandering.

I don't understand why the GOP is attacking their strongest presidential candidate. You'd think given the current political environment (sour public mood, Bush with 35% approval, desire for a change in direction), they would view McCain as a Godsend for their party.

What am I missing?

You're missing the fact that McCain wasn't even able to beat out mr. bush in 2000. Haha, can you imagine the clinton machine, or obama's intelligence and powerful message on stage with a loser to bush at the debates!!!!

As for the judges, you're wrong there too. McCain is fairly moderate, and not likely to select a highly conservative justice. Romney and Huckabee surely will.

Have you been reading my "Nov. 5th headline" thread???

As for the judges . . . I WANT to believe you, but I can't be sure. McCain is SUCH an enigma. He has the reputation of a moderate but has a near perfect record on social conservative issues (which is to say perfectly horrible in my opinion) he wants called Falwell and his ilk the "agents of intolerance" but has since been kissing the religious right's #####.

And he HAS promised to appoint strict Constructionists . . . but the religious right still doesn't trust him . . . and neither do I.

For a guy who is a maverick, he does a TON of flip flopping and can pander with the best of him.

So he's a wild card on the appointments. It's not worth the risk. I'm voting for the Democrat.

What's wrong with "flip flopping"? Not everyone gets it right the first time.

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As a GOP'er I would just like to say that I feel that there is a very significant sect of the party that A) Still buys into the trashing that W laid on McCain in 2000 (and if the fact that a draft dodger gets away with calling into question a POW's patriotism doesn't boggle your mind, then W's on stage debate "success" sure should), and/or B ) Believes that his willingness to compromise across the aisle is a sign of his liberalism. I for one voted for him in the 2000 primaries, so my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt. However, I do believe that he best balances conservatism with the modern day state of the world.

I am not religious, nor do I cling to many of those values, but I do appreciate individual liberty. I think the true essence of individual liberty is letting each decide their own fate, and making sure no one else is responsible for that persons decisions or their consequences. That may mean that many social programs are cut, but so be it. I happen to think that any politician that employs a religious temperament in their decision making process can not possibly agree with what I just said, therefore I vote for the least religious person I still see as conservative. Flame away, I am going to bed, I will respond in the morning. And if you want to correct my grammar, or a poor choice of words, know that the Chivas Royal Salute will have much less of an effect tomorrow morning so perhaps my responses will make more sense.

Bottom Line: McCain is electable, so long as conservatives realize that dedicating your life to Jesus is not the only way to ensure a just morality and individual responsibility.

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ucsbdirtybird (2/1/2008)
As a GOP'er I would just like to say that I feel that there is a very significant sect of the party that A) Still buys into the trashing that W laid on McCain in 2000 (and if the fact that a draft dodger gets away with calling into question a POW's patriotism doesn't boggle your mind, then W's on stage debate "success" sure should), and/or B ) Believes that his willingness to compromise across the aisle is a sign of his liberalism. I for one voted for him in the 2000 primaries, so my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt. However, I do believe that he best balances conservatism with the modern day state of the world.

I am not religious, nor do I cling to many of those values, but I do appreciate individual liberty. I think the true essence of individual liberty is letting each decide their own fate, and making sure no one else is responsible for that persons decisions or their consequences. That may mean that many social programs are cut, but so be it. I happen to think that any politician that employs a religious temperament in their decision making process can not possibly agree with what I just said, therefore I vote for the least religious person I still see as conservative. Flame away, I am going to bed, I will respond in the morning. And if you want to correct my grammar, or a poor choice of words, know that the Chivas Royal Salute will have much less of an effect tomorrow morning so perhaps my responses will make more sense.

Bottom Line: McCain is electable, so long as conservatives realize that dedicating your life to Jesus is not the only way to ensure a just morality and individual responsibility.

Outside of not being "electable", it sounds like Paul should be your guy.

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Ramen (2/1/2008)
I would think the GOP would WANT someone with a great shot at beating the Dems.

What will GOPers get if they nominate Romney or someone very conservative? A Democrat. Perhaps Hillary.

I'd prefer Obama to any of the GOPers, and I'd prefer McCain to Hillary even after all the pandering.

I don't understand why the GOP is attacking their strongest presidential candidate. You'd think given the current political environment (sour public mood, Bush with 35% approval, desire for a change in direction), they would view McCain as a Godsend for their party.

What am I missing?

what? the strongest candidate? :laugh

I dont like hillary or obama but they would DESTROY mccain in a debate and the majority of americans will not vote for this guy.

The guy cant even keep his own facts and quotes straight. He flip flops just as much as romney. At least romney is well scripted, mccain is just a horrible debater.

The biggest reason mccain is big because republicans are dumb and they still feel that the big bad terrorist are hateing us for our freedom and "mccain was in the miltary so he knows how to protect us" Mccain doesnt have a single clue about anything else besides how to make the miltary stronger.

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Ramen (2/1/2008)
I would think the GOP would WANT someone with a great shot at beating the Dems.

What will GOPers get if they nominate Romney or someone very conservative? A Democrat. Perhaps Hillary.

I'd prefer Obama to any of the GOPers, and I'd prefer McCain to Hillary even after all the pandering.

I don't understand why the GOP is attacking their strongest presidential candidate. You'd think given the current political environment (sour public mood, Bush with 35% approval, desire for a change in direction), they would view McCain as a Godsend for their party.

What am I missing?

They'd rather lose than abandon their principles. The dumbasses.

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octoslash (2/1/2008)
They'd rather lose than abandon their principles. The dumbasses.

So they would rather throw the pie on the floor rather than share it with a few moderates in the party. They'd rather say "if we can't have it all to ourselves then NOBODY can have it".

Sounds childish to me.

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holymoses (2/1/2008)

The fact that Stevens is going to die.

Rest assured: The Conservatives will RALLY around McCain like he WAS Reagan incarnate. The mantra I heard over and over and over today was "It's all about the Judges". They see the next President as a golden opportunitty to shift the ideology of the Supreme Court to a very narrow Constitutional Construction (ie . . . screw individual liberty)

You think I'm kidding? They were talking about the biggest mistake Reagan made: Appointing Sandra Day O'Connor to the Supreme Court.

Really want to vote for McCain?

I didn't say that I had a strong preference for McCain over Hillary, just that I'd prefer him to her right now.

I'm not convinced that McCain would appoint hard-core conservatives. He reminds me a lot of the first Bush...talking rightwing in order to get in power but ultimately is more pragmatic then his party likes.

Funny thing is that cons justices don't scare me when it comes to abortion. I think overturning Roe would be the GOP's worst nightmare. Allowing states to ban abortion would put pressure on Congress to pass national legislation allowing it, and nationally that's a fight the GOP will lose every single time. The GOP has already given up the "state's rights" banner by passing the FEDERAL partial birth abortion ban, so they won't even have the "federalist" high ground in the debate.

I do worry about cons justices when it comes to matters that don't have widespread national appeal, especially gay rights and privacy rights ("enemy combatant", etc). That does concern me a great deal.

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Steve_Bartkowski (2/1/2008)
McCain isn't my first choice but he's not a horrible choice either. I kinda like most of his platform on his website:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

I think it's ridiculous for Republicans or Conservatives to say they would rather have Obama or Clinton than McCain. That's just going way overboard and it is damaging to the conservative cause.

You mean Ann Coulter isn't right when she says that Hillary is stronger on terrorism, is smarter, and lies less than John McCain?

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Ramen (2/1/2008)
octoslash (2/1/2008)
They'd rather lose than abandon their principles. The dumbasses.

So they would rather throw the pie on the floor rather than share it with a few moderates in the party. They'd rather say "if we can't have it all to ourselves then NOBODY can have it".

Sounds childish to me.

Well, DUH....... THEYR'E CONSERVATIVES

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Steve_Bartkowski (2/1/2008)
McCain isn't my first choice but he's not a horrible choice either. I kinda like most of his platform on his website:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

I think it's ridiculous for Republicans or Conservatives to say they would rather have Obama or Clinton than McCain. That's just going way overboard and it is damaging to the conservative cause.

The Conservative cause will be damaged either way, my thinking in this is that if McCain is elected, in four years we will still have only a Liberal pretending to be a Conservative as an option. If the Dems win this race we still get a Lib in the White House, but in four years we may get a candidate who actually has Conservative-like values. The country will be screwed either way, I prefer some hope at the end of this God-awful term.

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Steve_Bartkowski (2/1/2008)
McCain isn't my first choice but he's not a horrible choice either. I kinda like most of his platform on his website:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

I think it's ridiculous for Republicans or Conservatives to say they would rather have Obama or Clinton than McCain. That's just going way overboard and it is damaging to the conservative cause.

One note on this, Politicians Lie, especially McCain. Look at his record, that goes much further in revealing his ideology than his bs talking points.

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silentbob1272 (2/1/2008)
One note on this, Politicians Lie, especially McCain. Look at his record, that goes much further in revealing his ideology than his bs talking points.

Really? Then why in the world are you supporting Mitt "I flip-flopped on guns, taxes, abortion, and global warming" Romney?

http://www.falconsblogs.com/forums/Topic3167114-59-1.aspx

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silentbob1272 (2/1/2008)
Steve_Bartkowski (2/1/2008)
McCain isn't my first choice but he's not a horrible choice either. I kinda like most of his platform on his website:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

I think it's ridiculous for Republicans or Conservatives to say they would rather have Obama or Clinton than McCain. That's just going way overboard and it is damaging to the conservative cause.

One note on this, Politicians Lie, especially McCain. Look at his record, that goes much further in revealing his ideology than his bs talking points.

I've tried explaining this a dozen times, Romney stated that he had a fundamental change of heart on these issues. I had a very similar change of heart several years back, Ten to fifteen years ago I was as Liberal as I am Conservative today, I changed. I cannot be sure that Romney is being truthful, but I believe and hope that he is. McCain is a political whore only equaled by Hillary and I will not vote for that guy.

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silentbob1272 (2/1/2008)
silentbob1272 (2/1/2008)
I've tried explaining this a dozen times, Romney stated that he had a fundamental change of heart on these issues. I had a very similar change of heart several years back, Ten to fifteen years ago I was as Liberal as I am Conservative today, I changed. I cannot be sure that Romney is being truthful, but I believe and hope that he is. McCain is a political whore only equaled by Hillary and I will not vote for that guy.

You know, I can actually respect this view because you're open about the possibility that Romney could be lying.

For myself, I think the timing of the changes is too fortuitous and, for some issues, a change of heart doesn't make sense (e.g., gun control or global warming). I think it's more likely that he's pandering, but like you I understand that there's an alternative possibility (that the change is sincere).

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Ramen (2/1/2008)
silentbob1272 (2/1/2008)
silentbob1272 (2/1/2008)
I've tried explaining this a dozen times, Romney stated that he had a fundamental change of heart on these issues. I had a very similar change of heart several years back, Ten to fifteen years ago I was as Liberal as I am Conservative today, I changed. I cannot be sure that Romney is being truthful, but I believe and hope that he is. McCain is a political whore only equaled by Hillary and I will not vote for that guy.

You know, I can actually respect this view because you're open about the possibility that Romney could be lying.

For myself, I think the timing of the changes is too fortuitous and, for some issues, a change of heart doesn't make sense (e.g., gun control or global warming). I think it's more likely that he's pandering, but like you I understand that there's an alternative possibility (that the change is sincere).

I'll be honest, the fact that you have seemed so much more reasonable in the past few weeks is scary as **** to me.

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judas yeast (2/1/2008)
ucsbdirtybird (2/1/2008)
As a GOP'er I would just like to say that I feel that there is a very significant sect of the party that A) Still buys into the trashing that W laid on McCain in 2000 (and if the fact that a draft dodger gets away with calling into question a POW's patriotism doesn't boggle your mind, then W's on stage debate "success" sure should), and/or B ) Believes that his willingness to compromise across the aisle is a sign of his liberalism. I for one voted for him in the 2000 primaries, so my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt. However, I do believe that he best balances conservatism with the modern day state of the world.

I am not religious, nor do I cling to many of those values, but I do appreciate individual liberty. I think the true essence of individual liberty is letting each decide their own fate, and making sure no one else is responsible for that persons decisions or their consequences. That may mean that many social programs are cut, but so be it. I happen to think that any politician that employs a religious temperament in their decision making process can not possibly agree with what I just said, therefore I vote for the least religious person I still see as conservative. Flame away, I am going to bed, I will respond in the morning. And if you want to correct my grammar, or a poor choice of words, know that the Chivas Royal Salute will have much less of an effect tomorrow morning so perhaps my responses will make more sense.

Bottom Line: McCain is electable, so long as conservatives realize that dedicating your life to Jesus is not the only way to ensure a just morality and individual responsibility.

Outside of not being "electable", it sounds like Paul should be your guy.

While I do like a good portion of the things Ron Paul says, I really think pulling out of Iraq immediately, and pulling all of our troops from overseas are two terrible ideas. Those two alone will prevent me from ever voting for him.

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