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joremari (1/29/2008)
right, but can he just carry his weapon around with him? would an air force pilot be able to fly his fighter jet around when off duty?

correct me if i'm wrong, but i have never seen a security guard carry a gun.

Thats because most security guards arent cops. They are just random people who don't hold any legal power and are there as a deterrent more than anything. They cant arrest you, they cant detain you, and they dont really have the legal ability to do anything.

Off duty cops are still cops though.

Anyways tasers are there for when an officer cant control a suspect and doesn't need to shoot him... its not a compliance tool.

Honestly speaking, some of the cops out there are genuinely good people, but some of them are just people who like to go on power trips and knew that being a cop was the only way to do it without going to college.

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i still don't see any laws or statutes that give off-duty police officers any kind of police powers. i know that's often how it works in reality, as i've seen off-duty cops working bars and clubs in their unis and with their guns. but do they actually have the powers?

i'm sorry- if some random dude in street clothes comes up to me and says he's an off-duty cop and i'm under arrest, i'm laughing at him. (unless he has a taser, in which case i'm shooting him and waiting for the real police to show up)

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lax32 (1/29/2008)
joremari (1/29/2008)
right, but can he just carry his weapon around with him? would an air force pilot be able to fly his fighter jet around when off duty?

correct me if i'm wrong, but i have never seen a security guard carry a gun.

Thats because most security guards arent cops. They are just random people who don't hold any legal power and are there as a deterrent more than anything. They cant arrest you, they cant detain you, and they dont really have the legal ability to do anything.

Off duty cops are still cops though.

Anyways tasers are there for when an officer cant control a suspect and doesn't need to shoot him... its not a compliance tool.

Honestly speaking, some of the cops out there are genuinely good people, but some of them are just people who like to go on power trips and knew that being a cop was the only way to do it without going to college.

i agree with almost all of that, which is why IMO it's unacceptable that (on-duty) cops are using tasers on a guy who won't accept a traffic ticket, or a woman who won't leave her vehicle (both of these stories got a lot of media attention, i'll supply links if needed). or the annoying college kid who wouldn't shut up.

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I'm not saying this cop was in the wrong or right, but it seems like there's much support for excessive force in this thread. Some of you tools are acting like every cop out there is a ******** saint. I got slammed against my truck last year for telling an officer I already gave him my insurance card. I don't give a **** what you think I did before that either. I was pulled over for speeding and literally saw him for 10 seconds. Oh yea, I'm white.

Cop caught beating 62 year old in wheelchair last week: http://www.nowpublic.com/cop-caught-tape-b...-old-wheelchair

There was a guy that had a website dedicated to busting corrupt cops. After that happened to me, I watched I kept up with the site. You can be blind or turn your f'n shoulder all you want, but it sickens me.

And don't even get on your f**kin high horse and talk to me about how brave they are. I never took anything away from them. I DON'T AGREE WITH EXCESSIVE FORCE. End.

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XLDenaliReturns (1/29/2008)
i was also involved in a civil case where a cop tasered a young man who fell, cracked open his head, and ended up losing about 30 IQ points and basically being a borderline ****** for the rest of his life. (he died a couple years later, likely stemming from his injuries). the kid had stolen a cellphone. and while some idiots on here will tell you that leaves you open to be tasered and/or killed, IT DOES NOT.

In that case, the fall injured the young man, not the Taser. The same could have happened if the cop tackled him to stop him from running away. Is it murder for a law enforcement officer to tackle a fleeing suspect?

also- wouldn't the fact that a person's extenuating circumstances could make them susceptible to DEATH if tasered be good enough reason for cops to quit using them for every little disagreement and every situation?

cops have no idea if you've got a heart condition or something to where the electrical

shock from a taser will kill you.

The electrical shock from a Taser will not disrupt your heart, even if you have a heart condition. The PAIN from a Taser might cause you to have a heart attack. It's a pretty intense experience. But the shock will not.

And again, the shock and fear from being tackled and beaten could also cause a heart attack. The difference is that the Taser is materially safer for the suspect than the tackling and beating.

that's why it's important that tasers only be used in critical situations where it's absolutely necessary NOT because some woman refuses to get out of her car, or some obnoxious college kid won't shut up, or some old Korean man giving a security guard a hard time about getting kicked out of a store. Not complying with police orders DOES NOT give them the right to potentially murder you.

(i'm ignoring the fact that your argument pretty much hinges on semantics. if you deny a severe diabetic their medicine, they'll die. it's technically because of the "extenuating circumstances" that they're a diabetic and need meds, but you sure as ##### murdered them in that situation just as in this)

Your problem is you are sensationalistically spouting garbage you read on websites and making sweeping overstatements based on said garbage. You MIGHT have a good point to make about MISUSE of Tasers, but you seem to think they should not be used under any but the most extreme circumstances merely because of the limited instances where they are misused.

Tasers are a legitimate law enforcement tool. They are safer to the suspect in most instances than the alternatives (physical force, batons, pepper spray, etc.). Their misuse does not negate their proper use.

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http://www.reason.com/brickbat/#124684

http://www.ktbs.com/news/Police-chief-won'...-incident-8021/

Surveillance video shows Shreveport police officer Ryan Robinson looking around to make sure officers aren't watching before walking up behind Carnado Brown, who was talking on a cell phone outside a night club. Robinson then Tased Brown. Robinson was suspended for 45 days, but no criminal charges were filed against him. And police chief Henry Whitehorn says he has no plans to do a criminal investigation of the case, which happened before he took office.

Why don't these people know to get on the ground before the police tell them to? Sheesh... deadbeats.

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JDaveG (1/30/2008)
Tasers are a legitimate law enforcement tool. They are safer to the suspect in most instances than the alternatives (physical force, batons, pepper spray, etc.). Their misuse does not negate their proper use.

Are you kidding me? Id much rather get pepper sprayed than tased. Pepper spray (Id assume) is terrible for the 20 minutes until you get all of it out, but its most likely not going to do any serious damage.

Tasers on the other hand can kill you... I mean they shoot small barbs into your body and send electricity through them. I learned one thing from AP physics, and thats never to screw around with electricity. You can kill yourself with a 9 volt battery. Your entire body knows to move muscles and basically function because your brain sends small electrical currents to your muscles, so its no wonder peoples hearts stop and develop serious damage from cops tasing them.

I wouldnt have a problem if they were used correctly, but cops use them as tool for compliance through pain... thats not what they exist for.

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lax32 (1/30/2008)
Are you kidding me? Id much rather get pepper sprayed than tased. Pepper spray (Id assume) is terrible for the 20 minutes until you get all of it out, but its most likely not going to do any serious damage.

Tasers on the other hand can kill you... I mean they shoot small barbs into your body and send electricity through them. I learned one thing from AP physics, and thats never to screw around with electricity. You can kill yourself with a 9 volt battery. Your entire body knows to move muscles and basically function because your brain sends small electrical currents to your muscles, so its no wonder peoples hearts stop and develop serious damage from cops tasing them.

Your problem is that you know nothing about Tasers and what they do. The electricity involved is PAINFUL, but it is not DANGEROUS. And no one who has been Tasered EVER complains about the damned barbs. They leave a superficial, shallow puncture wound. You won't even notice it -- you'll be too focused on the shock itself. People die from Tasers not because of the electricity, but because of drug overdose, heart issues, falls, etc. And physical restraint can trigger the same issues in people with those problems. It ain't the Taser, it's the force. You can't do anything about that.

As to your alleged preference, trust me on this: I've taken a Taser hit AND been pepper sprayed by certified instructors for both weapons. No contest -- I'll take the Taser 10 times before I'll ever let anyone get near me with pepper spray again.

BTW, you can die from being pepper sprayed, too, in a variety of ways. You can also have lasting effects from it. For one thing, it remains applied for a long time. The Taser ride is over once they turn it off.

I wouldnt have a problem if they were used correctly, but cops use them as tool for compliance through pain... thats not what they exist for.

That's EXACTLY what they exist for. The problem is not that they are used for pain compliance (which is legitimate), but that they are used where compliance is not necessary to enforce the law.

To use some examples already mentioned, you don't legally need the guy to accept his ticket, so why give him a Taser ride? You don't need a woman to be polite and get out of her car nicely, so unless she tries to flee, why Taser her? Why not call backup and inform her she is now going to jail for disobeying a police officer?

But that doesn't mean they are illegitimate where, for example, a suspect is trying to escape, or is threatening to do harm to himself with a knife (GREAT example of proper use of a Taser where nothing else will work as well, BTW), or is charging an armed officer to try and take his gun, etc. It is still pain compliance, but in those instances, it is legitimate pain compliance.

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