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Not to pile on Mckay, but it's these kind of moves that separate the good teams from the Falcons


halsey
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In 2004 the Falcons traded up to get a WR by the name of Michael Jenkins. The team they traded with was the Colts, who traded down into the second, traded that pick down again with Pittsburgh, and drafted a guy by the name of Bob Sanders, who just won NFLDPOY.

The Falcons also traded up for Jimmy Williams who's looked like a bust so far and Chris Houston who looks promising, but the jury is still out on.

It seems to me that good teams are usually the ones trading down and bad ones are the ones getting carried away over a player and giving away extra picks to get him. I'm sure thier are exceptions, but generally I hate seeing the Falcons trade up in the draft.

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I totally agree that hoarding picks is a pretty good philosophy when it comes to team building through the draft.

FYI, we did not trade up for Chris Houston - that pick came from the Houston Texans as a part of our trade of Matt Schaub. We tried to trade up into the late first to pick up Justin Blalock in last years draft, but were unable to do so - but luckily he fell into our laps on our first pick in the 2nd round.

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halsey (1/7/2008)
In 2004 the Falcons traded up to get a WR by the name of Michael Jenkins. The team they traded with was the Colts, who traded down into the second, traded that pick down again with Pittsburgh, and drafted a guy by the name of Bob Sanders, who just won NFLDPOY.

The Falcons also traded up for Jimmy Williams who's looked like a bust so far and Chris Houston who looks promising, but the jury is still out on.

It seems to me that good teams are usually the ones trading down and bad ones are the ones getting carried away over a player and giving away extra picks to get him. I'm sure thier are exceptions, but generally I hate seeing the Falcons trade up in the draft.

This is where a guy like Heckert or McKenzie will help the Falcons. Very good draft records.

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Agree totally. As poor as this team is, we need to add picks in bulk. Trade down when we can and add a few extra picks. We're not 1 (or even 2,3,or 4) players away from contending. IMO the only teams that should trade up are teams with a very specific need that would put them over the top.

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xnex (1/7/2008)
Agree totally. As poor as this team is, we need to add picks in bulk. Trade down when we can and add a few extra picks. We're not 1 (or even 2,3,or 4) players away from contending. IMO the only teams that should trade up are teams with a very specific need that would put them over the top.

quoted for truth.

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On the flipside, maybe you are missing something. Good teams trade down because they have a good team and need depth.

Bad teams that trade down and lose out on a star player for that position are stupid. For example if you trade down our 3rd (in best circumstances after coin toss) if Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey, or DMac are there it's like losing out on a LT or a Joe Thomas.

Why not go with the Flow?

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FalconWong88 (1/7/2008)
On the flipside, maybe you are missing something. Good teams trade down because they have a good team and need depth.

Bad teams that trade down and lose out on a star player for that position are stupid. For example if you trade down our 3rd (in best circumstances after coin toss) if Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey, or DMac are there it's like losing out on a LT or a Joe Thomas.

Why not go with the Flow?

I can't think of a team that traded up for a "star" and ended up getting the better end of that trade. I'm sure there are some examples, but I can't think of any. A lot of players who are supposed to be 'guarenteed stars' coming out of college don't end up that way. Feel free to provide some examples of a team that traded up for someone they thought would be a star and got the better end of a trade.

The Broncos got Elway in a post draft day trade, but the Colts didn't have much choice so the Broncos had an advantage most teams won't have in that sort of trade.

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DavidsonFalcon (1/7/2008)
I totally agree that hoarding picks is a pretty good philosophy when it comes to team building through the draft.

FYI, we did not trade up for Chris Houston - that pick came from the Houston Texans as a part of our trade of Matt Schaub. We tried to trade up into the late first to pick up Justin Blalock in last years draft, but were unable to do so - but luckily he fell into our laps on our first pick in the 2nd round.

FYI yes we did.We took Blalock with the Texans pick.we traded up with Minnesota to get Houston,they took Sidney Rice with our pick/

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halsey (1/7/2008)
In 2004 the Falcons traded up to get a WR by the name of Michael Jenkins. The team they traded with was the Colts, who traded down into the second, traded that pick down again with Pittsburgh, and drafted a guy by the name of Bob Sanders, who just won NFLDPOY.

The Falcons also traded up for Jimmy Williams who's looked like a bust so far and Chris Houston who looks promising, but the jury is still out on.

It seems to me that good teams are usually the ones trading down and bad ones are the ones getting carried away over a player and giving away extra picks to get him. I'm sure thier are exceptions, but generally I hate seeing the Falcons trade up in the draft.

The Jury is still out on Jimmy too and this is the first year Jenkins has served up picks,so I don't get that pick six nickname,this is Roddy's first good year now people are saying he's on of the best in the league.I don't get u guys.I supported Roddy the whole time,i'm still supporting Jimmy and Jenkins aswell as Anderson the guy who starts the stupidest comments of them all.

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Don't trade up is a stupid philosophy. If there's a player the organization really covets and its worth it to the organization to go after the guy, do so. The problem is not that Rich McKay was willing to trade up to go after a player. The problem is that Rich McKay does a terrible job of picking the players he wants to pursue.

I want quality over quantity and ideally both. Who gives a $%^$% if you have the maximum number of picks in each draft if you're using them to pick mediocre players. Having a ton of picks doesn't imply that you're building a good team...it just means you have a ton of picks.

Give me 2-3 quality players each draft over 4-5 mediocre guys any day.

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I'm still waiting on someone to provide some examples of where teams that have traded up ended up coming out better in the long run than the team that traded down. I see people saying that trading up is a good thing but not backing up thier opinion with examples. Trading up does not mean a team will get a better player. The example I provided of the Colts trading down twice and getting Sanders backs up my points. The Chargers trading down and getting LT instead of YKW is another example.

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btrain5489 (1/7/2008)
Don't trade up is a stupid philosophy. If there's a player the organization really covets and its worth it to the organization to go after the guy, do so. The problem is not that Rich McKay was willing to trade up to go after a player. The problem is that Rich McKay does a terrible job of picking the players he wants to pursue.

I want quality over quantity and ideally both. Who gives a $%^$% if you have the maximum number of picks in each draft if you're using them to pick mediocre players. Having a ton of picks doesn't imply that you're building a good team...it just means you have a ton of picks.

Give me 2-3 quality players each draft over 4-5 mediocre guys any day.

I have to disagree. It really depends on the situation and trading up, at ANY time in this draft would be bad. We need to build depth on this team. This team has very few impact players on it. So if you're in a hole like we are, two supposed superstars will not get you out of that hole. I'm going to assume you would want a superstar RB, well someone like that needs a great oline and a good QB to be successful, we don't really have that. Also, what if we sell the farm for these 2 or 3 supposed superstars, and two of them are busts? No team will find success having the drafts we had in 2006.

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DavidsonFalcon (1/7/2008)
I totally agree that hoarding picks is a pretty good philosophy when it comes to team building through the draft.

FYI, we did not trade up for Chris Houston - that pick came from the Houston Texans as a part of our trade of Matt Schaub. We tried to trade up into the late first to pick up Justin Blalock in last years draft, but were unable to do so - but luckily he fell into our laps on our first pick in the 2nd round.

No, I'm afraid you wrong about that. We DID trade up to get Chris Houston. We had to trade our second 2nd round pick along with one of our three 4th round picks to move up a couple of spots to get Houston.

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that's a BS philosophy. At the time ATL traded up, many experts on this board (and real ones) lauded both the Jimmy Williams move and Michael Jenkins. JWill had been mockdrafted as high as top ten--he slipped because of character concerns. Jenkins, lest you forget, ran a 4.3 or some ridiculous time.

the pats hoard picks because they trade up or down depending on who they want. That's different than drafting say 11 players.

Quantity over quality is stupid. Remember the Jon Olinger's of the world, back in the days of 7 6th rounders that Reeves would hoard.

I'm not fond of McKay's moves always, but those I can't blame on him--they made sense at the time. In fact, if memory serves me correct, you were a big Williams fan back then

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MSalmon (1/8/2008)
that's a BS philosophy. At the time ATL traded up, many experts on this board (and real ones) lauded both the Jimmy Williams move and Michael Jenkins. JWill had been mockdrafted as high as top ten--he slipped because of character concerns. Jenkins, lest you forget, ran a 4.3 or some ridiculous time.

the pats hoard picks because they trade up or down depending on who they want. That's different than drafting say 11 players.

Quantity over quality is stupid. Remember the Jon Olinger's of the world, back in the days of 7 6th rounders that Reeves would hoard.

I'm not fond of McKay's moves always, but those I can't blame on him--they made sense at the time. In fact, if memory serves me correct, you were a big Williams fan back then

Guys like you keep claiming that trading up guarentees quality yet I provide an eample of where the Colts traded down with the Falcons and got Bob Sanders. How hard is it to understand that trading up doesn't guarentee more quality? I back up my point with examples and guys that have held your view don't have any.

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