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he hate me

"If he's just pretty good, they have to look hard at Matt Ryan. That guy is a franchise quarterback and you can't pass up franchise quarterbacks."

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Mayock is to the draft what Ron Jaworski is to breaking down film, and there's nobody's even a close second. So when he shares his thoughts on Boston College's Matt Ryan, it's worth paying attention:

At 2-9, they are careening toward a top-five draft pick, and there could be at least one potential franchise quarterback available, Boston College's Matt Ryan.

"If I'm the Jets, I make sure Kellen Clemens is a special quarterback," said Mike Mayock, the draft analyst for the NFL Network. "If he's just pretty good, they have to look hard at Matt Ryan. That guy is a franchise quarterback and you can't pass up franchise quarterbacks."

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I like Mayocks scouting most of the time, but.................

I believe he is a BC grad and has had a Man-Crush on Ryan all season. This year I am going to ignore his scouting of the "Top 3" QB prospects because I think his personal bias is overweighing his vision.

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flrybranch (12/17/2007)
I like Mayocks scouting most of the time, but.................

I believe he is a BC grad and has had a Man-Crush on Ryan all season. This year I am going to ignore his scouting of the "Top 3" QB prospects because I think his personal bias is overweighing his vision.

There's nobody's even a close second because hype doesn't overweigh his vision, case in point Tim Tebow:

"In a nutshell, I thought Vince [Young] was a winner ... I thought he was the kind of kid who made the people around him better. But I wasn't sure he was ever going to be able to pass the ball from the pocket well enough to lead an NFL team to a Super Bowl. Right now, I wonder the same thing about Tebow. ...

I would struggle as an NFL general manager drafting either guy [Tebow or Young] .... That's me, though. Whether it's Tebow or Young, you've got to completely retailor your offense to take advantage of what they do best. And in the event of an injury, is the next guy the same kind of guy?"

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Matt Ryan is one of the MOST ridiculously overhyped QBs that I have ever seen. He may turn out to be a good QB in the NFL but he will never be GREAT. Mayock locks onto a guy every year and says that HE is the best. He said that about Matt Leinart a few years ago and you see that Young and Cutler are both better than him.

Don't believe the hype. We should not draft a QB until the 2nd or 3rd or even the 4th round.

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Scott Wright also says Ryan is the best QB. I dont think he has been the best on paper for sure, but that is not how scouts pick their guy.

I do think after workouts and interviews Ryan will come out the top QB prospect.

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Remember a several scouts had Ryan Leaf rated higher than Peyton Manning.

Ryan has talent, but IMHO he does not deserve to be a Top 5 pick. I think he can be a "Good" NFL QB, but I just don't see "Great".

Personally I think we need to go OT, OT/OG, then QB.

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Well , I agree with Mayock on Ryan , and if we take a QB with our top pick it better be Ryan, he's the only one worth taking with a top 5 pick , And yeas I've watched him play several games this year , that's why I like him . He reminds me more of Tom Brady than any QB I've seen.

Personally thou , I think with a much improved OL and a power running back , I think Joey could do a great job for us at QB . Laugh if you want I don't care , you have to judge talent by the whole situation.

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grendel (12/17/2007)
Draftnut57 (12/17/2007)
Well , I agree with Mayock on Ryan , and if we take a QB with our top pick it better be Ryan, he's the only one worth taking with a top 5 pick , And yeas I've watched him play several games this year , that's why I like him . He reminds me more of Tom Brady than any QB I've seen.

Personally thou , I think with a much improved OL and a power running back , I think Joey could do a great job for us at QB . Laugh if you want I don't care , you have to judge talent by the whole situation.

In what way does he remind you of Brady? Brady puts up very good stats and doesn't turn the ball over. He doesn't play stupid, that's about the opposite of Brady's game, but it's exactly what Ryan does regularly.

It's all about potential , Go back and judge both QBs by what they did in College not what Brady is doing now , Duh!

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he hate me (12/17/2007)
Mayock is to the draft what Ron Jaworski is to breaking down film, and there's nobody's even a close second. So when he shares his thoughts on Boston College's Matt Ryan, it's worth paying attention:

At 2-9, they are careening toward a top-five draft pick, and there could be at least one potential franchise quarterback available, Boston College's Matt Ryan.

"If I'm the Jets, I make sure Kellen Clemens is a special quarterback," said Mike Mayock, the draft analyst for the NFL Network. "If he's just pretty good, they have to look hard at Matt Ryan. That guy is a franchise quarterback and you can't pass up franchise quarterbacks."

I agree. A lot of so called experts i blow off, but Mayock is usually spot on. And with the BC connection you can guarantee he watched the kid. I think Ryan is agreat pick for us.

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Draftnut57 (12/17/2007)
Well , I agree with Mayock on Ryan , and if we take a QB with our top pick it better be Ryan, he's the only one worth taking with a top 5 pick , And yeas I've watched him play several games this year , that's why I like him . He reminds me more of Tom Brady than any QB I've seen.

Personally thou , I think with a much improved OL and a power running back , I think Joey could do a great job for us at QB . Laugh if you want I don't care , you have to judge talent by the whole situation.

I'm laughing :) Just kidding, i like Ryan a ton (as evidenced by my posts) and think that should be our pick, followed by Offensive and defensive line picks galore. Im not sure that I can live with Joey for a year or so, even f we sign some veteran FAs to the OLine for an immediate upgrade. The guy had a fragile psyche and questionable leadership skills prior to arriving to ATL, and Im safe to say that Petrino didn't help him out.

If we upgrade the line with veterans (Flozell Adams, Starks or guys like that) I'd either throw Ryan to the wolves (ala Peyton), I think he's tough enough, or sign a brand new stop gap veteran. Regardless i say we purge the entire QB roster and all other rancid veterans from the Mora and Petrino experiments.

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You absolutely hate Ryan. Have you guys watched the kid play? He has the potential to be the best of the QB's in the draft, he can be a great NFL QB. He has the physical skills, but I don't know where you guys get off saying he doesn't have the mental skills. He can be coached to cut down on some errors, but he has ice in his veins and he has a short memory. He doesn't feel pressure and he can win you games. That is what reminds me of Tom Brady, he is calm and collected and sees the whole field very well. He really has had a mediocre cast, BC's O-line isn't even that good, let alone his receivers. I wouldn't be upset at all if we took Ryan with our first pick.

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grendel (12/17/2007)
pinkegobox (12/17/2007)
You absolutely hate Ryan. Have you guys watched the kid play? He has the potential to be the best of the QB's in the draft, he can be a great NFL QB. He has the physical skills, but I don't know where you guys get off saying he doesn't have the mental skills. He can be coached to cut down on some errors, but he has ice in his veins and he has a short memory. He doesn't feel pressure and he can win you games. That is what reminds me of Tom Brady, he is calm and collected and sees the whole field very well. He really has had a mediocre cast, BC's O-line isn't even that good, let alone his receivers. I wouldn't be upset at all if we took Ryan with our first pick.

Yes, I've seen him play horribly against medium to good defenses. Have you seen him play, or are you just repeating what Mayock said (which has in turn been repeated by others)? Did you see him play against VT? You can't coach stupid.

You keep quoting VT. Did you see the first game?

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goosedaddy70 (12/17/2007)
Matt Ryan is one of the MOST ridiculously overhyped QBs that I have ever seen. He may turn out to be a good QB in the NFL but he will never be GREAT. Mayock locks onto a guy every year and says that HE is the best. He said that about Matt Leinart a few years ago and you see that Young and Cutler are both better than him.

Don't believe the hype. We should not draft a QB until the 2nd or 3rd or even the 4th round.

Wrong. Mayock made himself a household name by locking onto Cutler. Do some research.

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grendel (12/17/2007)
Draftnut57 (12/17/2007)

It's all about potential , Go back and judge both QBs by what they did in College not what Brady is doing now , Duh!

Draft, you are right on with the potential bit.

Interestingly a can't miss DL prospect was the first overall that year, a guy by the name of Cortney Brown.

There were no second round picks, 2 third round picks (one was Chris Redman), one 5th round, 4 sixth rounders (Bulger & Brady were the only ones to ascend to starter), Bulger btw was drafted and cut by New Orleans he was so good. And 2 7th rounders, of which only Tim Rattay, a career backup is still around. Great year for QBs, huh? 3 starters out of the bunch, one superstar.

But, hey let's don't stop there, you keep throwing out how great Brady was at Michigan and how crap Ryan was and how disparate they are stats wise. Here's Brady's stats at Michigan:

How bout his junion year : 1998

350 214 61.1 2636 15 TDs 12 INTS

Looks like Brady wasn't very good at decision making back then.

And Brady attempted 691 passes in his junior and senior season, compared to Ryan's almost 600 attempts this year alone. More attempts more risks. Now Brady did all this on a team that had Anthony Thomas at RB, and WRs David Terrell and Marquise Walker all great collegiate stars. Thomas had almost 1300 yds and 16 rushing tds in Brady's season and Terrell had almost 900 yds receiving.

In short, Michigan had a very balanced and potent attack and was a solid college team.

Ryan's cast is no where near that good, yet he has a better college win/loss record than Brady did...Still ##### in your mind?

Yeah, you're right, Matt Ryan should be picked in the 6th round ;)

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grendel (12/17/2007)
Yeah, Brady had a bad Junior year (his first year as starter), so it's only natural that he wasn't given full credit for his good senior year, but the point was that Brady's senior year was better than Ryan's in EVERY STATISTICAL MEASUREMENT, and he still went in the 6th. Brohm and Woodson both have better stats than Ryan. Henne's had an off year, and he still managed to have a 2/1 TD/INT ratio.

Brady was also in a draft that saw only one QB picked in the first round! It was not a year of great prospects and he didn't stand out. He was a rare late rounder that turned out great. But keep in mind if he was drafted today, he'd probably have been a 2nd or 3rd rounder--they've gotten a lot better at scouting in the NFL since 2000

You keep mentioning the number of passes that Ryan threw as some sort of excuse for the INTs. Ok, so why doesn't he have more TDs? The TD/INT ratio is a RATIO. With more throws you should have proportionally more TDs and INTs, and it's the ratio of TD throws to INT throws that tells you something, not the raw numbers. Ryan's numbers back up what I've seen, and that is that Ryan doesn't understand coverage and makes poor decisions.

Could it be lack of supporting cast? Red zone is awful hard to pass TDs in--don't you agree? You keep saying he is a poor decision maker, but he is one of the best ball distributors at the QB position. So he obviously can read coverage.

You also keep harping on his supporting cast... Tell me who from ARMY's secondary is going to the pros? How come he threw 2 INTs against freakin' ARMY? He plays a bunch of pretty weak teams, and he still plays like crap, so yeah, my opinion remains unchanged.

Oh, yeah, beating Vtech was against a weak team. I understand he's not your fav prospect, but geez you really hate this kid. Grendel, youre a smart guy, but i guarantee youre wrong on this kid--he'll be a stud. In fact, Woodson has a much greater potential for bust than Ryan. I guarantee it. Pin it. Save it. I said it.

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grendel (12/17/2007)
MSalmon (12/17/2007)

Oh, yeah, beating Vtech was against a weak team. I understand he's not your fav prospect, but geez you really hate this kid. Grendel, youre a smart guy, but i guarantee youre wrong on this kid--he'll be a stud. In fact, Woodson has a much greater potential for bust than Ryan. I guarantee it. Pin it. Save it. I said it.

I don't want Woodson either. In the 1st the only QB I'd take is Brohm. In the 2nd I'd look at Flacco after around #40 or possibly Dixon a little later. If Flacco and Dixon are off the board I might look at Ryan or Woodson. 3rd I'd look at Josh Johnson and in the 6th or 7th I'd look at Paul Smith out of Tulsa. I'm not looking to take a journeyman QB like Henne or JDB until the 4th since I don't think they'll be more than depth. I might take a flyer on Brennan in the 4th, even though I don't think he's going to pan out, just to take a chance.

I like Brohm pretty well, myself and he would be a great phone.

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grendel (12/17/2007)
MSalmon (12/17/2007)

I don't want Woodson either. In the 1st the only QB I'd take is Brohm. In the 2nd I'd look at Flacco after around #40 or possibly Dixon a little later. If Flacco and Dixon are off the board I might look at Ryan or Woodson. 3rd I'd look at Josh Johnson and in the 6th or 7th I'd look at Paul Smith out of Tulsa. I'm not looking to take a journeyman QB like Henne or JDB until the 4th since I don't think they'll be more than depth. I might take a flyer on Brennan in the 4th, even though I don't think he's going to pan out, just to take a chance.

I dont understand how you can claim Henne and Booty as "journeymen" backups at best, but then want guys like Paul Smith and Josh Johnson. Booty and Henne returned from injuries, and their teams went on rampages. I would take either of these guys years before the DII hopefuls you mentioned.

Brohm

Ryan

Flacco

Henne

Booty

Woodson

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grendel (12/17/2007)
1989fan (12/17/2007)

I just don't have a good feeling about Henne or JDB and they haven't lived up to their hype or big-school credentials. I could be wrong about them, it's just the feeling I've got. I've seen more of Ryan, and feel stronger about his being all hype.

For Josh Johnson and Paul Smith... like I said, they're later round fliers to take a shot at getting that next no-name turned superstar, but they've put up impressive numbers in admittedly small-time programs.

OK. I understand where you are coming from. Everyone has their preferences, and that is fine. I wasnt trying to be harsh with my post, glad you didnt take it that way.

I just look at Henne's career @ Michigan and his leadership and toughness, and really like him as a prospect. Booty I am unsure on myself, but it is hard to overlook USCs emergence since he returned. He has been lights out since his return from the injury, as has Henne for the most part.

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Both teams got a significant boost when their starters returned though. i wouldnt chalk that up to coincidence myslef.

With Hennes injury, he came back early and not 100%. When he left game(s) because of aggrevation to the injury the team faltered with Mallett at the helm.

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goosedaddy70 (12/17/2007)
Matt Ryan is one of the MOST ridiculously overhyped QBs that I have ever seen. He may turn out to be a good QB in the NFL but he will never be GREAT. Mayock locks onto a guy every year and says that HE is the best. He said that about Matt Leinart a few years ago and you see that Young and Cutler are both better than him.

Don't believe the hype. We should not draft a QB until the 2nd or 3rd or even the 4th round.

I think Matt Ryan may actually be more overrated than Bush.

At least Bush had ridiculous numbers in college as he dominated the competition. (Even if his success was deceptive because of competition and supporting cast)

But my goodness, Ryan doesn't even have the gaudy numbers. They said it was because he's a winner. Well now he's not even going to a BCS Bowl game because he laid an egg vs VT this time without the prevent defense minus Vince Hall

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Look, I don't care what Mel Kiper, Scott Wright, Mike Mayock, or Todd McShay says. They get some right and a lot wrong, just like the rest of us.

But with regards to this particular thread, the following does merit consideration:

Mike Mayock is an alumnus of Boston College.

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Peyton (12/17/2007)
Look, I don't care what Mel Kiper, Scott Wright, Mike Mayock, or Todd McShay says. They get some right and a lot wrong, just like the rest of us.

But with regards to this particular thread, the following does merit consideration.

Mike Mayock is an alumnus of Boston College.

The difference between scouts and the rest of us is that scouts get paid to watch football

The bottomline is that they miss more than they make.

Otherwise their rankings of players would reflect the rankings of players in the NFL.

But that's not how it works because of other factors like intangibles

Now I'll give Ryan credit because he does have intangibles, but you have to have more than just intangibles.

You have to make good decisions with the football which Ryan does not.

People say, well he's just gun slinging like Favre.

Well even Favre would have a 2/1 TD/INT ratio for a year in college.

The way Ryan is careless with the way he passes the ball is beyond just a mild bad habit, it's the way he plays football.

Now obviously if he somehow curtailed this problem he could be a great QB, but by no means are we in a position to spend that high a pick on a guy who MAY all of a sudden start taking better care of the football.

And isn't the guy allegedly not interested in this team?

My goodness we could be drafting the next Ryan Leaf headcase

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its all speculation, there college QBs

now in the case of Matt Ryan he is highly overrated & a huge scum bag who stated he doesn't want to play in Atl

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