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Would a great Rb change our offense? Some say a single man can't...


heretic
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2006 Vikings rushing offense: #16 (rushing yds/game)

2006 Vikings rushing offense: #14 (avg yds/rush)

2007 Vikings rushing offense: #1 (rushing yds/game)

2007 Vikings rushing offense: #1 (avg yds/rush)

A great player CAN change an offense

The problem is: where can we find GREAT players

If McFadden is really a GREAT player, he could change our offense

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please... your are forgetting one KEY thing... the vikings actually have a very good offensive line... we will not have that next year if we draft McFadden and not Jake Long and another O lineman in the second.. and make a huge FA of someone... we better not draft McFadden... we need Jake Long.. and then we can get some later rounds like Mendenhall or James Davis.. its a deep Running back class

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LOL! It was all Adrian Peterson that revamped their offense. It had absolutely nothing to do with these three guys...

Bryant McKinnie LT - 7th overall pick, 6'8", 335lbs

Steve Hutchinson LG - 17th overall pick, 6'5", 313lbs, 4 time Pro Bowler

Matt Birk C - 6'4", 309lbs, 5 time Pro Bowler

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pzummo (12/5/2007)
LOL! It was all Adrian Peterson that revamped their offense. It had absolutely nothing to do with these three guys...

Bryant McKinnie LT - 7th overall pick, 6'8", 335lbs

Steve Hutchinson LG - 17th overall pick, 6'5", 313lbs, 4 time Pro Bowler

Matt Birk C - 6'4", 309lbs, 5 time Pro Bowler

Thank You! Some people don't realize how bad we need offensive lineman. We have a new scheme so lets get the players for it...starting in the trenches.

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heretic (12/5/2007)
2006 Vikings rushing offense: #16 (rushing yds/game)

2006 Vikings rushing offense: #14 (avg yds/rush)

2007 Vikings rushing offense: #1 (rushing yds/game)

2007 Vikings rushing offense: #1 (avg yds/rush)

A great player CAN change an offense

The problem is: where can we find GREAT players

If McFadden is really a GREAT player, he could change our offense

If you take a close look at the Vikings, you will see that Chester Taylor had a good season behind their O-line before Petereson ever arrived. So the answer to your question is no. Two really great O-lineman would make a huge change in our Offense though.

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pzummo (12/5/2007)
LOL! It was all Adrian Peterson that revamped their offense. It had absolutely nothing to do with these three guys...

Bryant McKinnie LT - 7th overall pick, 6'8", 335lbs

Steve Hutchinson LG - 17th overall pick, 6'5", 313lbs, 4 time Pro Bowler

Matt Birk C - 6'4", 309lbs, 5 time Pro Bowler

Where were they in 2006?

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heretic (12/5/2007)

Where were they in 2006?

They were in Minnesota, Steve Hutchinson's first season with them, along with an all new coaching staff. This is their product one year after working with them. Are you denying how much talent they have on their OL? How does Adrian Peterson make Chester Taylor average 4.8 yards per carry?

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RSH YD | RECYD | TD |

303 1216 | 288 | 6 |

That's about 4yds a carry from taylor in 06'...now mcfadden could do better than that.

But so could Norwood if we had a o-line. Norwood has more talent than Taylor and if he was behind that Vikings line he would do the same. Look at the difference Hutchinson alone, made for Seattle and now Minny.

D-Mac is special...I agree but we have too many holes.

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pzummo (12/5/2007)
heretic (12/5/2007)

Where were they in 2006?

They were in Minnesota, Steve Hutchinson's first season with them, along with an all new coaching staff. This is their product one year after working with them. Are you denying how much talent they have on their OL? How does Adrian Peterson make Chester Taylor average 4.8 yards per carry?

Taylor stats in BAL:

2003 BAL 63 276 4.4

2004 BAL 160 714 4.5

2005 BAL 117 487 4.2

he was not SO bad after all...

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You should note that the foundation for improvement was laid a few years ago. The OL has been greatly improved via the draft and Free Agency. Once the OL was built, the offense was ready to take off with the addition of one player......a star RB.

You should also take note that the drastic improvement took place with the addition of a star RB paired with a mediocre QB.

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no 1 player makes a team. But ask Emmit Smith how many rings he has.

But the vikes like the saints the year before with bush got a play maker. We need a bruising powerhouse back like saints have with duce. Dunn just isnt doing it and its not all his fault. Our line does suck and we have injuries as well as other issues. But that doesn't replace the need for a goal line back or a 3rd down back who can just run people over.

Will a stud rb win us a sb? probably not but it couldnt hurt either. It would be another step in the right direction. If we can get a solid running game our passing game should benefit. if nothing else a good running game controls the clock and keeps the other teams O sitting on the sideline.

So if we can get us a powerhouse back we should, it can only help. Not to take away from dunns blocking, because the man has tons of heart. But times have changed and we are paying him way to much for this performance. I wish dunn would stay as a 3rd back and take a pay cut. But i doubt that will happen. With injuries it would be great to keep him if he was cheaper. But at his money he has to be starting and thats not working.

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Alot of people are pointing to Minnesota's O-Line as the reason for their running game improvement. But Minnesota has had McKinnie and Birk for a while and I always remember their O-Line as being quite strong (big too). The addition of Steve Hutchinson made them quite a bit better.

But...Peterson is averaging 6.5 YPC. The three guys mentioned above...noone's run at that type of clip before behind them. Alexander? His best was 5.1 and that was after he'd been a pro for a good long time and been able to really learn and understand his blocking schemes and the talent and tendencies of his O-Line.

Here is the interesting thing about Peterson. Chester Taylor in his two seasons prior to Minnesota acquiring him carried the ball at a 4.33 YPC. In Minnesota, behind this O-Line, he's carried it at a 4.24 clip. So he's really not seen such an uptick - he's producing like he always has really.

I recognize that Minnesota's O-Line is top tier, but the evolution you might be seeing in the running game here is this:

Can an RB, if properly rested and cared for (and not being asked to touch the ball 400-450 times), be fresh throughout the game and average 5.5-6.0 YPC, provided that RB is talented enough to do it?

Brad Childress caught alot of heat for bringing Peterson along slowly and not putting so much on his shoulders. But Peterson has has one 30 carry game (the record breaker), one 25 carry game. The rest have been at 20 or below. You can say that as he's increased in stature and his abilities become more 'public' as the season has worn on that his workload has increased. That is true. But Chester Taylor in the games Peterson has played in has averaged 9+ carries/game.

As it relates to the Falcons, is Jerious Norwood a guy that can carry 80% of a teams running attack? Or is he better suited to take on a supporting role? Would a McFadden/Norwood backfield allow the Falcons to always have a tremendous threat in the backfield, while being able to easily keep both RB's fresh? Absolutely. Does the O-Line need to improve for this vision to realize it's full potential? Yes...but it's not just about the O-Line. The talent you have in the backfield, and how you manipulate and massage it is becoming a greater factor in the success of NFL franchises.

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heretic (12/5/2007)

Taylor stats in BAL:

2003 BAL 63 276 4.4

2004 BAL 160 714 4.5

2005 BAL 117 487 4.2

he was not SO bad after all...

Where did I say he was "so bad"?!? I don't think he is a "good" RB. I could name at least 20-30 RB's that I would rather have on my team over Chester Taylor. They have an OL that makes a decent RB (Chester Taylor) look very good (4.8ypc is very good). We don't. It's really as simple as that. There will be a great RB prospect next season, and the season after, there always is. I don't think we should take him and risk ruining a great prospect because we can't keep bodies off of him. I think he would turn into a bust if we don't fix our OL.

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The Vikings set themselves up by having great linemen.

Hutchinson - 4 probowls in 4 years

Birk - 5 probowls in 7 years

Bryant McKinnie - should have gone to the probowl AT LEAST twice, but because he has good/bad alternating years this may be his first year at it

...the left side has a valuable and solid Cook, with the 'weak link' being Hicks that has been replaced by the average Herrera. The RG spot is the only spot of the 5 that has any sort of issues with it.

We have issues at every spot sans LG. Our guys cant stay healthy...and the ones that play arent that good to begin with.

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McFadden is a great talent......no doubt. However, Peterson gets his big yards behind McKinney and Hutchinson. Hutch is the key to their running game. We don't have a Hutchinson on this team. Before we invest a huge chunk of change on a RB, shouldn't we first pave the way for him?

Ask poor Ronnie Brown how it feels to run behind a suspect OL. BTW, ask the Dolphins if they regret drafting a RB #2 in the draft. I bet they would rather have taken an OL.

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pzummo (12/5/2007)
heretic (12/5/2007)

Where did I say he was "so bad"?!? I don't think he is a "good" RB. I could name at least 20-30 RB's that I would rather have on my team over Chester Taylor. They have an OL that makes a decent RB (Chester Taylor) look very good (4.8ypc is very good). We don't. It's really as simple as that. There will be a great RB prospect next season, and the season after, there always is. I don't think we should take him and risk ruining a great prospect because we can't keep bodies off of him. I think he would turn into a bust if we don't fix our OL.

If our O-Line is so bad, how is Jerious Norwood averaging 6.4 YPC?

IMO it's because:

1) He's used situationally so he's never on the field tired.

2) He's good.

The one constant though between him and Dunn is that they run behind the same blockers. I think Dunn is a major reason why we can't establish the running game. Does the O-Line need an upgrade. Sure. Most of the team does.

But at the end of the day, at least where the Falcons are concerned...Dunn overstayed his usefuleness. He's had bursts of productivity, but he's has stretches of ineptitude.

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bgarcia28 (12/5/2007)
McFadden is a great talent......no doubt. However, Peterson gets his big yards behind McKinney and Hutchinson. Hutch is the key to their running game. We don't have a Hutchinson on this team. Before we invest a huge chunk of change on a RB, shouldn't we first pave the way for him?

Ask poor Ronnie Brown how it feels to run behind a suspect OL. BTW, ask the Dolphins if they regret drafting a RB #2 in the draft. I bet they would rather have taken an OL.

Before Ronnie Brown injured his ACL, he was playing better than any RB in the NFL. He was averaging 140+ yards from scrimmage/game...and he was gaining 5.1 YPR. In fact the example of Brown is a great one to highlight the case FOR McFadden. His line was not good, but his ability was still able to shine through. Did it take a while for him to get to that point, yes. But every prospects transition to the NFL is a variable.

I don't underestimate the value of an elite OT or OG. But I think the value of an elite RB is being underestimated.

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Keep in mind Birk had a terrible injury in 2005 that caused him to miss the whole season. When he got back in 2006 he also had some nagging neck injury, and while it didn't caused him to miss any game, he didn't exactly played like he did before the injury. I guess you can said he might have recovered fully from that 2005 injury now.

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