the legend about lack of first rounders in the falcons o-line

[turbo]

i bet the colts have the same problem...

colts depth chart:

lt tony ugoh year 2007: round 2 (42 overall)

lg ryan lilja year 2004: udrafted free agent

c jeff saturday year 1998: undrafted free agent

rg jake scott year:2004 round:5 pick:9

rt ryan diem year:2001 round:4 pick:23

i wanted tony ugoh last year.instead we took blaylock and then houston. im still happy with our pic although i thought we need a lt more than a g

[swishersweets]

wasn't tarrik glenn a 1st -rounder?

either way, he was an all-pro.

[plato]

drafting woodson with our first pick would be a mistake. we aren't ready to contend because we can't protect anyone holding the football and we need bodies that can block. we can pick up good qb in fa this year (mcnabb, derek anderson) but we can't pick up a franchise lt.

draft long, draft a qb at the top of the second,...

long is overrated. we won't be ready to contend next year regardless of who we draft. mcnabb may or may not be available in fa, and derek anderson is a 1/2 year wonder. we can pick up starks to be our franchise rt and we can draft a lt with a second round pick. this draft is deep with tackle talent.

[JDaveG]

um. you build a team around the line. not around playmakers. we have playmaker. we dont have a solid core on offense. we have guys who can make plays. that's not enough.

exactly right. the best playmaker in the world can't beat 4-6 guys who are coming virtually unblocked.

tom brady would get killed behind our o-line. randy moss can't get open fast enough to help our o-line. we need to rebuild the line badly. then the playmakers we have (norwood, white, crumpler) can shine.

and i don't care if we go qb in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd, we have to use 2 of the 4 picks on o-line or address that position solidly in fa (and still use at least 1 first day pick for a good o-lineman). it has been neglected for too long, and it is by far our worst hole on the team. harrington and leftwich ain't the answer, but they would do much better behind a solid o-line. bank on that.

and whoever we get at qb with the possible exception of brohm won't play next year anyway, meaning that we have to rebuild the o-line now to protect harrington/leftwich, regardless of what qb we end up with (again, excepting maybe brohm).

[plato]

drafting woodson with our first pick would be a mistake. we aren't ready to contend because we can't protect anyone holding the football and we need bodies that can block. we can pick up good qb in fa this year (mcnabb, derek anderson) but we can't pick up a franchise lt.

draft long, draft a qb at the top of the second,...

long is overrated. we won't be ready to contend next year regardless of who we draft. mcnabb may or may not be available in fa, and derek anderson is a 1/2 year wonder. we can pick up starks to be our franchise rt and we can draft a lt with a second round pick. this draft is deep with tackle talent. again i repeat, the cowboys, pats and colts show prove that you don't need top five tackles. woodson is the black peyton manning. under petrino he would flourish. no he won't be ready his rookie year. but guess what? the falcons won't be ready to contend either. we are rebuilding. not drafting a franchise qb will simply set the rebuilding process back a year. and next year's qb class is very weak compared to this one.

[215FalconsFanatic]

what yall are missing is the fact that those linemen have been in the same system with the same guys for years. they just plug in a new cog and keep going. pats been running the same o forever now. indy as well even after a head coaching change. we have changed everything 3 times in that time frame. all the points that have been made arent relevant till after a few years of running the offense with players acquired by the current coaches no matter what the round.

[peedue]

they also have tom brady and randy moss.

we have joey harrington and joe horn.

please don't forget....................rich mckay.

[plato]

also, here's a look at the ots voted into the 2007 pro bowl (matt light was a replacement fill in)::

willie anderson: #10 overall

jonathan ogden: #4 overall

tarik glenn: #19 overall

walter jones: #6 overall

orlando pace: #1 overall

chris samuels: #3 overall

all of them are top 20 picks and all but 1 is a top 10 pick.

another thing, notice that all of these guys comes from teams that were actually able to either run the ball, pass the ball, or both last year.

flozell adams, dallas, 38th overall

marcus mcneill, san diego, 50th overall s-

afc pro bowl qbs: manning (1st overall), palmer(1st overall), rivers(4th overall),

[Falcomatic]

look at what happened to st louis and kc after roaf and pace got hurt/retired - they suck. you never hear of a great tackle available as a fa. maybe a great og or center (faneca, hutchinson, mawae).

admittedly you also never hear of great fa qbs unless they are on the tail end of their careers.

i say get the anchor lt with round 1, and get a promising qb prospect and another ot with our 2nd rd picks.

qb scouting is tough - you can't judge them as easily since it's mostly a mental game. a scout can tell more about a lineman than a qb from their college footage. i'd say a top ranked ot is less of a gamble to bust than a top ranked qb is.

[plato]

exactly right. the best playmaker in the world can't beat 4-6 guys who are coming virtually unblocked.

tom brady would get killed behind our o-line. randy moss can't get open fast enough to help our o-line. we need to rebuild the line badly. then the playmakers we have (norwood, white, crumpler) can shine.

and i don't care if we go qb in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd, we have to use 2 of the 4 picks on o-line or address that position solidly in fa (and still use at least 1 first day pick for a good o-lineman). it has been neglected for too long, and it is by far our worst hole on the team. harrington and leftwich ain't the answer, but they would do much better behind a solid o-line. bank on that.

and whoever we get at qb with the possible exception of brohm won't play next year anyway, meaning that we have to rebuild the o-line now to protect harrington/leftwich, regardless of what qb we end up with (again, excepting maybe brohm).

good post. the key point is that we don't need to draft a tackle in the top five to solidify the position.

[plato]

look at what happened to st louis and kc after roaf and pace got hurt/retired - they suck. you never hear of a great tackle available as a fa. maybe a great og or center (faneca, hutchinson, mawae).

admittedly you also never hear of great fa qbs unless they are on the tail end of their careers.

i say get the anchor lt with round 1, and get a promising qb prospect and another ot with our 2nd rd picks.

qb scouting is tough - you can't judge them as easily since it's mostly a mental game. a scout can tell more about a lineman than a qb from their college footage. i'd say a top ranked ot is less of a gamble to bust than a top ranked qb is.

we can get talent at tackle in the second round and fa(starks). there's no way we can get a sure fire franchise qb this year without drafting woodson.

[defensewinscliche]

i dont think anyone is positive that andre woodson is a sure fire franchise qb. i'm not in any way impressed with his arm strength. he has alot of the same minuses joey has.

also. we're a team that has their top 3 tackles all out with injuries. there's a good chance that we take a jake long, and then look at someone like otah later in the first day.

[JDaveG]

good post. the key point is that we don't need to draft a tackle in the top five to solidify the position.

i don't disagree at all, but i would not at all be disinclined to do so. if we got long in the 1st and a qb in the 2nd/3rd, i'm good with that too. i think petrino knows enough about these guys to get a gem in the mid 1st-day picks.

mckay got schaub there without a college coach to help evaluate. we also got robinson in the 3rd.

i could go either way.

[swishersweets]

i dont think anyone is positive that andre woodson is a sure fire franchise qb. i'm not in any way impressed with his arm strength. he has alot of the same minuses joey has.

also. we're a team that has their top 3 tackles all out with injuries. there's a good chance that we take a jake long, and then look at someone like otah later in the first day.

woodson has great arm strength. the velocity he puts on some his medium-to-deep balls is exactly what you look for in an nfl qb. he's definitely got more of a gun than brohm or ryan (or harrington hahaha)

[plato]

nfc pro bowl qbs: drew brees (2nd round), marc bulger (6th round), tony romo (udfa)

and of course:

tom brady - 6th round.

brees and bulger suck now. products of their offensive systems imo. romo and brady are exceptions, not the rule.

the fact that 3 of the best olines in the nfl have one first rounder between them, and a late first rounder at that, tells me that we don't have to reach for long. long is overrated.

[defensewinscliche]

woodson has great arm strength. the velocity he puts on some his medium-to-deep balls is exactly what you look for in an nfl qb. he's definitely got more of a gun than brohm or ryan (or harrington hahaha)

i disagree. he has the harrington arching rainbow on his deep passes, and lacks a ton on his out routes. he's also got a slow wonky release.

[plato]

let's look at the facts:

- offensive line is the weakest link of the team.

you keep acting as if oline is one position. it's composed of five players, so obviously they collectively are the weakest link of the team. but lt is not the weakest link on the team. the weakest link of the team is qb. harrington is pretty much the least successful qb in the history of the nfl, and leftwich can't stay healthy. we can draft a lt at the top of the second round. and this is a deep draft for ot so the player will be rated as a 20-25 overall talent. and don't forget we can sign starks and or faneca to help sure up the line. long is not the only answer to out oline woes.

[plato]

i disagree. he has the harrington arching rainbow on his deep passes, and lacks a ton on his out routes. he's also got a slow wonky release.

he has one of the strongest arms in the draft actually. his release is not that slow either.

[swishersweets]

i disagree. he has the harrington arching rainbow on his deep passes, and lacks a ton on his out routes. he's also got a slow wonky release.

what are you talking about? go back and watch the lsu game or the game before that ( i think it was the s carolina game which was his worst of the year). the guy can put some serious zip on the ball. waaaaaaaaaaaay stronger than harrington in any case. did you see harrington have to step into that hail-mary like he was throwing a javelin? that was pathetic.

i used to agree about his delivery. really it looks like he just carries the ball too low and that adds time to his delivery. his actual throwing motion is ****-near textbook-perfect.

[plato]

what you constantly fail to grasp is that it takes 11 guys to succeed on offense. every team has different skill levels at different positions. ne and ind have very good guys across their entire o-line....no superstar studs but guys more than capable of doing their job. guys like walter jones and orlando pace are superstar studs. just their presence upgrades and offense and their non-presence can downgrade an offense (ask the rams who lost pace for the season this year). when we have the worst o-line in the league and a chance to get a stud at the most important o-line position, you do it.

what you fail to realize is that harrington is probably the worst long term starting qb in the history of the frickin game, and when you have a chance to draft a guy like woodson you do it. are you too stubborn to understand that we have cap space to pursue starks, and a high second round pick in a draft deep with talented tackles? are you too stubborn to understand that we can sure up our line without drafting an overrated ot who would not be a top five pick in a stronger draft?

i think your dream is for every weakness on the offensive to be upgraded except for joey when. do you understand that joey is the weakest individual link on the offense? do you understand that qb is the most important position in the nfl? does it not matter to you when the most important position on the field is being manned by the worst long term starting qb in history?

[plato]

at this moment lt is the weakest position on the team. we are on our 3rd string guy who wasn't even listed at lt at the beginning of the season on the depth chart (was the backup rt).

he isn't but getting the top rated o-lineman in the draft for the worst o-line in the league sounds like a **** good step in the right direction.

the tackle position at the top of the draft is weak this year. but the talent near the late first-early second is strong. not hard to understand. we can address the position in fa and the draft, and in the mean time pick up a qb with pro bowl potential.

[plato]

another thing to consider. if you draft a qb in the top 5 they will either boom or bust (like anybody). if they boom, great, if they bust, you set your franchise way back. pretty much your only option is to cut them to get rid of the top 5 contract. if you draft a lt in the top 5 they will either boom or bust (like anybody). if they boom, great, if they bust, you move him to another o-line position and still benefit. gallery was considered a bust then this year the raiders moved gallery from lt to lg and now he is doing very well.

so it's not possible for a lineman to bust, move to guard, and still suck?

[defensewinscliche]

the tackle position at the top of the draft is weak this year. but the talent near the late first-early second is strong. not hard to understand. we can address the position in fa and the draft, and in the mean time pick up a qb with pro bowl potential.

it's not that weak. i dont know what you're talking about. jake long is a complete monster.

[plato]

jake long 6'7, 313

sam baker 6'5, 305 lbs

gosder cherilus 6'7, 318 lbs

ryan clady, 6'6, 317 lbs

michael oher, 6'5, 325 lbs

barry richardson, 6/7, 320 lbs

mike mcglynn 6'5, 315 lbs

all of these guys are pretty **** good. some of them will slip, like ugoh, mcneil etc.

woodson is the best qb prospect we've seen in severall years.

[plato]

- starks is a rt, not an lt. and if vick doesn't pay some money back we will have a hard time being able to afford any free agents next year.

- there are no good lts in free agency! almost never!

- a 2nd round ot is a lot riskier than a 1st round ot. 1st round ots typically can come in and start from day 1 (see joe thomas and levi brown). 2nd round ots usually can't.

yes starks is a rt. we can draft a lt in the second round, which will be more like a first rounder because it's high and the pats forfeited their pick. so we have a very high second rounder in a draft deep with 1st round quality tackles. you know what that means? one will slip and we'll be able to draft a first round quality tackle at the top of the second round.

and i believe we get the cap relief regardless of if vick pays or not.