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Return of the Gaucho

Pure Football
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Posts posted by Return of the Gaucho

  1. Also, posted in the other thread, but Shembo's attorney says he kicked the dog after it bit him while he was trying to put it in its crate, but didn't mean to kill it.

    Okay, boss. Game, set, match. I hope he goes to prison. Both because I believe he kicked the everloving **** out of that dog, and because he think's we're all stupid enough to believe that story.


    Well, there are the connected dots. Means, motive and intent. Throw the book at him, and I'm glad the Falcons cut his sorry ***.

  2. I know you posted this for him, but I'm a lecture junkie on stuff like this. I will be watching, thanks emot-tiphat.gif

    I specifically did not post it for him. I assume he already knows that lesson.

    I posted if for anyone interested in why two lawyers were saying that. I am glad you are taking the time to watch it, it's very informative. Though, the first guys talks a tad bit fast.

  3. Indeed. Just plead the 5th and get a lawyer. Talking to the police is never a good idea, even if you absolutely 100% didn't do it.

    Not directed to you JDave, but it seems relevant to post this here.

    I post this video on some forum or another about once a year when it is relevant. I used to make clients I thought had a decent bone in their body watch it too.


    I didn't embed it for one simple reason: it is nearly an hour long. But if you want to be convinced that one should never talk to the police, grab a beer and watch the video. Enjoy.

  4. Not for nothing, but ......

    "Police conducted multiple telephone interviews with Shembo before test results from a necropsy at Gwinnett County Animal Shelter and additional tissue sample testing at the University of Georgia showed the dog had significant internal injuries and that the cause of death was blunt-force trauma.

    Police issued a warrant for Shembo on a felony charge of aggravated cruelty to animals."

    Multiple interviews with Shembo. You think he admitted having the dog there? That maybe he gave statements indicating he didn't know what happened, and then the necropsy came back showing his story was complete bull?


    So in addition to the evidence already mentioned, there is the fact that Shembo has given statements to the police before the necropsy was completed. We don't know what they say, but I'm willing to bet they are along the lines of "the dog was acting sick, but I don't know what happened. Then we took him to the vet and he died."

    At this point that is pure speculation, but giving demonstrably false statements to the police is not a good way to help your defense attorney. The biggest mistake that I used to see was giving the police enough to let yourself think you talked your way out of it by telling a half truth. Not knowing what evidence they had, or would get, often led to their admission used against them. Over and over and over again...

    Word to the wise kids, whether you did or didn't do a crime, don't talk to the police.

  5. The Falcons don't need reasonable doubt. The prosecutor does, but the Falcons do not. He'll get his day in court. But it doesn't look good right now for him.

    What the Falcons do need is to ensure that there is enough chance of fire from this particular smokestack to justify cutting a player and potentially burning $600K in the process. I bet Arthur Blank isn't the kind of man to make decisions like that lightly.

    All reasonable points, I just personally hope they had more info than what we have, and I assume they did. I just don't, so I will wait and judge by what is in front of me now.

  6. Sure, you can indict a ham sandwich. But DAs don't go around wasting their time charging people without proof absent extraordinary circumstances. Like, conspiratorial type circumstances.

    I can't think of a single reason why the Gwinnett police would have any reason to charge Prince Shembo without evidence. Not one. Can you?

    I practice in California and haven't lived in Georgia for 20+ years, so I would not be the one to ask about the Gwinnett DA/PD's office. I can say that even after practicing on the other side of the aisle I still have the utmost respect for prosecutors 95% of the time. But I will always wait until the facts are in before condemning someone personally.

  7. Which is more reasonable -- that the woman killed the dog and blamed it on him to get him arrested and fired, or that she reported he killed the dog after it died in his possession?

    Do you think the police might have looked into whether they could prove the dog was in his possession independent of her allegations? I'll bet you they did. Do you think the Atlanta Falcons looked into it before they waived a player with a nearly $600,000 cap number and some upside in the system? I'll bet you they did that too.

    I think you are misunderstanding my intent here. I am not saying one scenario is more or less reasonable. I am saying that the record before us in this thread does not overcome reasonable doubt. I hope the Falcons have more, I assume the DA has more. I just don't know what it is, and I will wait until I hear more to make a personal determination about the man's culpability. You can go back to my earlier posts if you want, but I more or less agreed with your original post that the Falcons know something, I just don't know what that something is so I will wait to hear what it is before I fall in line.

  8. Have you ever been involved in a criminal case, in any capacity? I ask because it's not ordinary to bring charges with no evidence. And I don't mean "he said/she said" evidence. I mean the police investigate, and they gather facts, and then they and the prosecutor determine whether they can prove a charge, and then they charge someone.

    Since this is a felony, the Gwinnett County DA's office was involved, too. Meaning an attorney has given an opinion that they can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, does that mean they can? Of course not, or prosecutors would always win. But prosecutors win a lot. Why? Because they get to pick which cases they charge.

    Yes, I practiced criminal defense my last 2 years of law school and first 3 years out of it. I am not Johnny Cochrane, but I know what I am talking about to an extent. You went to law school too, you know the phrase "You can indict a ham sandwich?"

    Like I said, I don't have all the facts, I just want the dots connected.

  9. Gaucho, I've owned pit bulls my entire life. Great dogs. (My 12 yr old red pit(Zoe) is chillin on the couch right now. lol)But Ive seen Pit Bulls that were raised to fight from day 1(like Vicks was)..Not your avg house pet to say the least..And Im not trying to justify what either of these clowns did.Just sayin.

    True, but sociopaths breeding these dogs for a couple generations for their aggressive traits does not magically put them back in the wild...

  10. You haven't? Fact 1 -- dead dog, died of blunt force trauma. Fact 2 -- girlfriend told the police he admitted to kicking the dog. Fact 3 - the dog was in his custody when it died.

    Again, I'm not saying he did it, but those are all facts that point to his guilt.

    Dog was in her custody when it was brought to the vet, everything else is her testimony. It died of blunt force trauma apparently. Her statement says who did it and where it happened. Nothing else does that we have seen yet.

  11. Unless you're saying his girlfriend lied, then he admitted to kicking it multiple times. So I guess the question is, should we believe the person who filed the report, which by the way is consistent with the physical evidence (a dead dog who was determined to have died of blunt force trauma) or the guy who was with the dog when it died of blunt force trauma?

    I'm not saying he did it, but it doesn't look good. And I bet the Falcons have information we don't or he'd still be on the team.

    Ex-girlfriend. You don't think that should be taken into account in weighing the reliability and probative value of her testimony? I am certain Shembo's attorney will consider it.

    The thing is though, there is litterally so little evidence that is needed beyond her statement and the vet's report, that that I can't imagine the Falcons would cut him without it. Was there a camera in the elevator or lobby of his building? Did it show him there about the time she said? Toll booth camera? Credit card receipt in proximity? I mean, there are countless reasonable pieces of evidence out there that could corroborate her story sufficiently. I just want to see what it is before crucifying the guy. I hope the Falcons took that approach too.

  12. I'm usually first to say we should wait and see, and I'll say it now, with this caveat.

    The Falcons know something. This happened April 18, she went to the police April 19. They knew this was coming. And my guess is they've independently investigated it. There is no self defense claim -- it was a Yorkie. So he was with the dog, alone, and the dog is dead from what turns out to be blunt force trauma. The girlfriend says he admitted kicking the dog more than once.

    Maybe she's lying. Maybe she killed the dog after he broke up with her. Maybe the dog jumped off a bookshelf and hit its head. Maybe the Yorkie gnomes came into his house and bludgeoned the dog to death. But it sure looks like he not only killed the dog, but admitted it. And even if he didn't, the Falcons have determined they have enough information to waive a 4th round pick who was showing promise. I'd bet dollars to donuts they didn't do that just because. This doesn't look good for him. I hope it all turns out to be untrue, but he's gotta go. I'm glad they cut him.

    I hope you are right.

  13. You're not an employee of the NFL. You're basically an independent contractor giving your services for negotiated pay.

    The distraction this causes outweighs the potential benefit he has to the team, therefore it's a simple cost/benfefit analysis. You terminate his contract because the cost outweighs the benefit even if he is found not-guilty of the charges.

    Are you trying to make an employment law argument? One of my clients is a professional football team in California. They are not independent contractors in the eyes of the law, but even so there is nothing stopping an employee being fired either. Being an at will or a contract employee makes little difference.

  14. Problem being, he's not that valuable to begin with. If it's Julio Jones, you wait until he's guilty. If it's a 3rd string linebacker, you get rid of the problem before it escalates.

    I mean, I get that. It's the real world, not some esoteric intangible perfect world. So is true due process, so I can always hope for better without being ignorant of how the world works.

    I also think that if it were many other organizations that wouldn't be looking at their 3rd player killing a dog in 7 years, the leash might have been a bit longer.

    What is done is done, and it is not like I'm angry at the Falcons, I just hope they know more and didn't simply have a knee jerk reaction to PR and a police report.

  15. So he should have NOT been waived for killing the dog?

    Alright, I'm outta here.

    Unless the Falcons know more, then I don't think he should have been waived at this time. I am hoping they know something because a man losing his livelihood solely on the word of an ex who literally crafts probable cause perfectly in a police report is not something I'd be comfortable with.

    I don't think it is unreasonable to be completely against animal cruelty and completely for due process by both the law and your employer.

  16. Guys, there are certain posters that are just trying to get a rise out of people. They are trolls. They WANT you to get mad. They WANT you to insult them. They feed on it. It is likely the only power and control they ever have in their otherwise failed and miserable lives.

    Either ignore them or report them. Don't feed them.

    This, don't engage the troll directly if all they seek is your attention.

  17. People are angry, but has anyone seen the living conditions that animals that are farmed for food love under? They are tortured their whole lives, but where is everyone that is angry about Shelby at then. It's a double standard when it comes to dogs and cats, like I said if he is found guilty then he should be suspended and fined.

    Whataboutism doesn't make what Shembo has been accused of doing ok. I also vote with my wallet on that issue and would happily support legislation to fix that aspect of the meat industry.

  18. It is just a dog but it wasn't his dog. & you just can't go around killing things for no reason. Unless he was attacked or something then i dont see how its ok. If someone kicked & killed my dog id be pissed dogs are like family sometimes. Gotta control your temper. But on the flip side. No one should lose their careers for that. Kill him in his pockets.

    WTF does who owns the dog have to do with anything?

  19. In all seriousness people kill animals everyday for sport; so I don't see the big deal Shembo was practicing his punting skills....punting is a sport.

    I see this argument a lot, but it assumes that the killing of domesticated animals and wild animals are the same thing. Dogs and cats have had thousands of years of breeding, training and conditioning to be docile and trusting around humans. Killing them is a little different than an animal who truly views a human as a predator.

    I don't like trophy hunting simply for the trophy, but I can understand the sporting aspect if it is done responsibly and everything is used. Killing an animal looking at you with doe eyes in a completely trusting and vulnerable state is not the same thing.

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