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Beef

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Posts posted by Beef


  1. 1 hour ago, blkbigdog35 said:

    John Collins: Season-high 35 points, 17 rebounds was a beast tonight!!!

    Dude, it's like so past time to trade this bum.  He's clearly not improving.  17 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1 steal... man he's such a liability on defense.  And going 3 of 3 on 3pt'ers?!?  Totally reminds me of those cringe-worthy Josh Smith shots.

    So frustrating.


  2. 3 hours ago, red2play said:

    Trae, Reddish, Hunter, PF (Crowder/ Harkless/Wilson Chandler, etc), Capella for starters

    Teague, Huerter, Brembry, Collins, Dedmon

    Draft Deni Avdija for future PF.

     

    Trade Collins for a future pick if possible.  I'm 100% against players asking for MAX before they deserve it and will leave Trae as the undisputed leader of the team.

    Gezuz F'ing Christmas, your overwhelming bleeding eyes hate for Collins is beyond nauseating at this point.

    We get it.  You don't like the guy.  You think he's 4 inches shorter than he really is... some how, even though you supposedly "have season tickets and go to the games!", and even though he's never played the 3 for us, you seem to be mad he hasn't improved at the 3 since we drafted him.  You also seem to be mad he hasn't improved at defense, even though he absolutely has, significantly.  Go figure.

    It's time you deal with it.  He's here and he's not going anywhere.  And no amount of repeating yourself over and over again with the same nonsense is going to change that.  His contract isn't up until AFTER next season, and nobody wants to hear this same BS for another 20 freaking months.


  3. 2 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

    Yeah, Collins and Giannis are not comparable.  In his first 4 years Giannis was listed as a SF in year 1, SG year 2, PG year 3, SF year 4 before settling into his natural PF position year 5.  

    In other words, Giannis didn't begin to shine until year 5, where he began doing exactly what TS and CLP are trying to mold Collins into, but in year 3.  As I said.

    Thanks for the input, though.


  4. 2 hours ago, jayu70 said:

    It's good to dream, but my guess is Giannis resigns with the Bucks this offseason with his SuperMax deal.

    I agree.

    After hearing more about that "Core 5" meeting, I'm pretty certain TS is planning to ride with these guys to the end.  I believe he feels Collins can become something similar to Giannis.  He!!, Giannis didn't really begin to shine until at least year 5 (2017-18 season), and even then he was only just doing what Collins is already doing at year 2.5.

    I think we will lock Collins up at $28m/yr and make him the permanent 4, and only a 4 (although multiple on defense, of course).

    I believe we ride with Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish rotating the 2/3, and then draft a backup 4 this draft.  So we're probably leaning towards Toppin, Reed, Smith, or Perry.  And I would prefer Reed as he's a defensive beast.

    The writing is on the wall.  We are good at Center now through 2023.  Fernando can develop there behind Capela and Dedmon.  The wings are set.  Probably just need a vet backup to replace Carter.  And if Teague is willing to continue his role, we're obviously set at PG.

    The only hole is a backup PF, if we stick with what we got.

    Now all that said, IF... IF... we can get Giannis, I truly believe TS would still do it and simply add him to this equation, and either offload Collins or simply relegate Collins to a combo 4/5 like he has been doing for 2.3 years, up until just recently when there has been an obvious shift in his time away from the 5.


  5. 8 hours ago, GEORGIAfan said:

    Giannis is 6'11. We can play him at the 5. 

    Trae, Cam, Hunter, Collins, Giannis. With Capela/Dedmon, Huerter, and AE comes off the bench. 

    Again, Giannis has never played the 5 a day in his life. He’s a 4, averaging 31 mins a game and scoring 30/13/2 from that position doing EXACTLY what we have Collins trying to do now.

    There’s 48 minutes in a game and Collins has tons of experience splitting his time between the 4 and 5.

    You play Capela at the 5 for 30 mins and Giannis at the 4 for 30 mins, and there’s still 36 minutes left between the 2 positions.  Collins can get 18 mins at the 4 and 12 mins at the 5, and nobody is complaining about not getting enough minutes when everyone is getting a minimum of 30.

    And Reddish, Hunter, and Huerter do the exact same thing at the 2/3.


  6. 9 minutes ago, jayu70 said:

    Teams are scoring more in general.

    Miami is supposed to be a great defensive team, we just put up 129 points on them.

    We are bottom in the league giving up an average 119 ppg.  Toronto and Boston are giving up 106.  The Bucks, 107.

    13 teams are giving up less than 110 ppg. 25 teams are giving up less than 115.  29 teams are giving up less than 119.

    124 isn’t good.

    We average 110 ppg scoring. We aren’t going to be able to put up 120+ every night.

    Excited about the win, but man we gotta learn how to keep teams under 110 somehow.  Was really hoping we’d come out of the break with a shutdown game.


  7. Love the win, but good grief can we please stop allowing teams to score 120+ on us?

    And it actually looked like we were playing great defense tonight for a change.  I just don’t get where the points come from.  It just seems like everyone we play shoots way above their average from the perimeter.

    Can’t wait for Capela to be healthy, though. Really hope he causes a cascade/compounding effect on defense.


  8. 17 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

    I’d be on board with trading our first round pick this year unless it’s Edwards.  His ceiling is so much higher than anyone else.

    But who are we moving off of with a top 5 pick?

    Trae

    Cam

    Hunter

    Collins

    Capela

     

    Logic says the FO doesn’t want a top-5 pick.  They are clearly wanting to win games. 

    If we just win 30-35%, we likely end up picking between 6-10.  Anything more than that and we’re likely 8-12.

    Between 6-12 we’re likely looking for a combo 2/3 3-and-D specialist off the bench, or a backup combo-defender at the 4.  But obviously a high caliber starter is no longer a necessity and probably not a goal.

    OR, we trade back to get multiple picks and get both of those.

    But it’s pretty obvious we’re not gunning for a top-5 pick anymore in a very weak lottery draft board.


  9. 3 hours ago, blkbigdog35 said:

     

    @BeefI checked out Paul Reed and he is an interesting prospect.

     

    While Tyler Bey is the best 1/2/3 defender in this draft, Reed is easily the best 3/4/5 defender.

    He has tremendous hand-to-ball accuracy with reaching in, either for blocks or steals.  And he’s also a stellar rebounder.  Combine his rebounds, blocks, and steals, along with his knack for disrupting shots and passes, and his DWS is through the roof.

    His downside is that he’s not very athletic on the offensive side of the ball. He’s sorta heavy-footed (slow’ish) and his handles are average.  However, he’s smart with the ball and doesn’t turn it over much in spite of this.  He’s an efficient scorer, although has a very wonky but accurate shot, but certainly isn’t going to wow anyone with superlative athleticism.

    I think he’d actually be a great fit for us off the bench if our goal is to continue refining Collins as our go to long term primary 4.


  10. 1 hour ago, GEORGIAfan said:

    About the same time as when the Rockets traded their only center and when the guy leading the league in rebounding, who is still in his prime, was traded for a used lollipop and toenail clippings. 

    It isn't about what Giannis can do. It is about what we need to do to maximize him. As I said, Trae could learn to play next to another ball dominant small guard, but that isn't going to maximize him. Trae and Giannis are elite players Capela is not. No sane team is going to put their star players in unoptimal positions to hamper the success. 

    Collins and Giannis as a backcourt can handle rebounding. We will also have Dedmon, who is an ideal fit next two both of them. 

    I am really not sure why you care about keeping capela on this team if we get Giannis. I like Capela, but if he cannot fit next to Giannis, he has to go. We can find other bigs to complement Giannis. 

    We’re just going to have to agree to disagree, I guess.

    This FO and coaching staff is very obviously trying to turn Collins into precisely the same thing Giannis currently is, and they just traded for Capela for the purpose of developing Collins next to that guy.

    Every single thing Giannis can do, pick-n-roll, slash from the elbow, stop-n-pop short game, fast-breaks, set screens, give-n-go, space and pass, hit 3’s, putbacks, rim defend, secure rebounds, switch, guard mid to perimeter on shooting 4/5’s, blockout, bang with bigs for position... they want EXACTLY this too from Collins.

    I mean by your logic, Collins can’t coexist with Capela if he improves at the 4 and develops into what they want/hope for.

    But they clearly have a system in place, or believe they do, where a Giannis type player at the 4 is supposed to fit with a Capela type player at the 5.

    So you can armchair definitives all ya like, but this organization clearly disagrees with you. Not just me.


  11. 1 hour ago, GEORGIAfan said:

    Lopez Bros can space the floor. They aren't strict need to be around the basket guys like Capela. Lanes don't open up when one guy has to be in the dunker spot to be effective(See Embiid + Simmons). 

    You don't get Giannis and hope they can coexist. Collins isn't that player yet to command that, so he has to learn to coexist. If someone doesn't fit with Giannis, you let that guy go. You don't sign someone like Giannis and tell them to coexist. You trade for assets to max his potential/skills. It is like drafting Garland over Hunter. Trae and Garland could learn to coexist, but you aren't maxing trae by doing so. 

    Uhh, I'm not sure when it supposedly became taboo to have 2 guys who dominate the paint and boards on the floor at the same time, but that's just silly talk.

    It's not like Giannis can't spread the floor.  24% of his shots are from 3pt, 35% are from 10'+, and only 49% are actually at the basket. And even then, only 16% of his attempts are dunks.  And he's still scoring 30ppg with an effective fg rate of 59%.

    One of the reasons our defense is so horrible is because of our lack of rebounding.  I mean we look like we get a lot of rebounds, but that's only because we let our opponents take an astronomical number of shots compared to most teams in the league... because we don't get first chance rebounds.  ESPECIALLY on offense.

    It honestly wouldn't hurt to have two bigs who can bully balls off the boards.  So what if Giannis scores 27 instead of 30, and Capela scores 12 instead of 15.  If we're holding teams under 110ppg while we score 112, mission accomplished.

     


  12. 38 minutes ago, jayu70 said:

    Trae was pressing on his 3's, but they shouldn't have kept him off the floor at the end of that game.  He was facilitating better than anyone on the floor and that's what was missing in the last 10 minutes.  He'd have probably drawn 2-3 fouls and gotten another 3-4 assists in those last 10 minutes and helped the red team put the game away.


  13. 10 minutes ago, GEORGIAfan said:

    IMO, Giannis would be a Center on our team and couldn't work with Capela. He needs floor spacers. 

    I don't know, there's a lot of teams out there with multiple rim protectors who are flexible scorers.

    I mean he already plays with the Lopez brothers.  I'd imagine with us being a pick-n-roll team, he'd love it if he wasn't the only rebounder on the squad and could spread out more and wait for lanes to open up.

    And we have floor spacers.  Trae already draws defenders 30' out, and our wings are becoming reliable threats on the corners.  Collins is even taking shots outside while Jones and Fernando work the roll sometimes.

    You need to read that article that explains how Collins can coexist with Capela.  There's no reason that same logic can't be applied to Giannis.


  14. 2 hours ago, jayu70 said:

    How the Collins/Capela pairing will work!

    Good Read!

     

    Great article.  You can see already we are giving Collins more time on the perimeter and allowing him to do something other than pick-n-roll dunks, including 3-pt'ers when on offense.

    JC's natural position is OBVIOUSLY the 4.  His defensive woes almost exclusively come when he's at the 5 and we're playing small-ball.  And the real reason we consistently went to this lineup was because Alex Len is one of the worst rim defenders and rebounders that's ever played the Center position, Damian Jones isn't much better, and Bruno Fernando is confused on what he's supposed to be doing and is rarely in position to make a defensive play.

    As a result, I think JC and Capela will gel just fine.  Probably better than fine.


  15. Assuming we do NOT get Wiseman or Edwards and end up with a pick somewhere between 6-10, this is what my dream scenario for the Hawks would look like after this season:

    PG: Trae | Teague | Goodwin

    SG: Reddish | Huerter | Tyler Bey

    SF: Hunter | Reddish | Tyler Bey

    PF: Giannis | Collins

    C: Capela | Dedmon | Vernon Carey Jr.

    Obviously this means we traded back with our likely top-10 pick and got 2 mid-round picks, as well as obviously signing Giannis to a big deal.  And no, I'm not going to continually spell out his last name.  F that. LOL  This also assumes we re-sign Teague again as he's a UFA after this season.  BUT, I think Teague likes it here.  He knows he's a backup now and he's still getting good minutes.  Wish he was scoring more, but he's a decent facilitator, plus Goodwin has become a pretty good handcuff who we just extended.

    Skal could be an option somewhere in there too, but he's basically Damian Jones 2.0 at this point (gone with the wind after this season), and frankly, his upside in our lineup is completely unknown still, so not worrying about him.  Also I'm not really sure about the longterm viability of Bruno Fernando.  He's really struggling to find his place here, and we just loaded up on Centers, plus Dedmon will very likely get more time at the 4 and 5 to spell Collins and Capela once Capela comes back.  Hate it for Bruno, but he's essentially an injury handcuff at this point and will probably get more time in the G-league than up here.  Especially if Skal shows out in our system.  As a result, I'm taking him out of the equation because I just don't see him stepping on the floor for us after this season unless there's an injury.  Remember, this is a projection for NEXT season, not this current one.

    As for the draft picks, Tyler Bey is probably the best wing defender in this draft.  He's a much better version of Bembry as he can actually shoot and isn't a maniac with the ball in his hands.  Bembry's time is up.  Dude can play great D on a 1/2/3 star when needed, but he turns our offense into mush when he's on the floor and is clearly a square peg trying to fit in a round hole.

    Vernon Carey Jr. is the Center we can groom for a couple years behind Capela.  Kid is an absolute beastly rebounder and rim protector, as well as potential to score from everywhere on the floor with some work.  He's another Andre Drummond in the making.

     

    And here would be our lineups throughout games:

    Starting Set (maybe 20-24 mins a game):

    1. Trae

    2. Reddish

    3. Hunter

    4. Giannis

    5. Capela

     

    Spells as needed:

    1. Teague or Goodwin

    2. Huerter

    3. Bey

    4. Collins

    5. Dedmon or Carey

     

    Scoring Set (maybe 8-12 mins a game):

    1. Trae

    2. Huerter

    3. Hunter or Reddish

    4. Giannis

    5. Collins

     

    Defensive Set (maybe 2-6 mins a game):

    1. Reddish

    2. Bey

    3. Hunter

    4. Giannis

    5. Capela or Carey

     

    And here's their average minutes played, and separated by position:

    PG: Trae (~30m) - 1~30m

    PG: Teague (~16m) - 1~16m

    PG/SG/SF: Reddish (~28m) - 1~2m; 2~21m; 3~5m

    SG: Huerter (~21m) - 2~21m

    SG/SF: Bey (~17m) - 2~4m; 3~13m

    SF: Hunter (~30m) - 3~30m

    PF: Giannis (~30m) - 4~30m

    PF/C: Collins (~28m) - 4~18m; 5~10m

    C: Capela (~28m) - 5~28m

    C: Dedmon (~6m) - 5~6m

    C: Carey (~4m) - 5~4m

     

    As you can see, I really want to keep everyone at 30 minutes or less.  I really believe this would be the solution to our defensive woes.  Fewer minutes played so more effort and energy can be expelled for defense.  And there are enough scorers always on the floor that lopsided runs or large blocks of dead scoring minutes should be a thing of the past.

    We would have a bonafide starting corps that can both put up points and play serious D to set the tone of games, plus a killer scoring set that allows us to step on throats and put games out of reach, plus an insane defensive set that allows us to lock teams down in tight games where we're ahead or games we simply need to demoralize the other team and beat them before its even over.

    I think we could win a championship with that roster.  Not sure if it's even possible though as we'd have to probably go into lux tax to sign anyone after getting Giannis on a max deal and locking up Collins to anything longterm.

    Our window is 2021-2024.  4 years.  After that, the gang is probably splitting up and we're trying to replace at least 2 of our cogs at 2/3/4, not to mention signing Trae to a likely max deal.

    Needless to say, we have to make our big push for a max deal superstar after this season, and I really hope we can be enticing enough for a guy like Giannis.


  16. 13 hours ago, jayu70 said:

    - what will Hunter's long term position be - SF or PF? Maybe with Capela as C, he can be a more impactful perimeter defender, something he has struggled with all year, might be better as a PF.

    This is perplexing from Kirschner.  I mean in what world has he ever seen Hunter doing what our PF's normally do?  I don't get it.  He even mentions being a "more impactful perimeter defender", which is not something we really expect from our PF's.  We expect our PF's to guard that 12' to 0' area and banging around the boards with our center trying to create blockouts to secure rebounds.  So he's making no sense.

    I mean some teams do have 6'10 PF's playing both the 3 and 4, but nobody plays small-ball anymore with 6'7 SF's at the 4.  They'd just get abused and foul out in this current environment.  Not to mention, it's just not in Hunter's skillset to bang around the boards and compete for high-points.

    Hunter is about 100x more a 2 than he is a 4.  And reality is, he's a bonafide 3 and ONLY a 3, who can guard 1-4 as needed.  But on offense, the dude is a wing with slash-n-go/roll capability, and that's his more than OBVIOUS skillset.


  17. 3 hours ago, GEORGIAfan said:

    Hunter has played the 4. Reddish has played the 4. I didn't imply either were starting at 4. I am pointing out that both are being groomed to become multi-positional wings. The goal is to have two wings at 2/3 that can switch/defend 1-4 as well as mask trae's defensive abilities.  Collins and Trae need 3 and D guys around them. 

    Remember Robert Covington specifically credited Lloyd Pierce with his growth. We are hoping CLP can work his magic and make Reddish and Hunter into elite defenders as well. 

    ^^ This ^^

    Hunter and Reddish only ever touch the 4 spot when there are forced switches off a pick or the opposing 4 has slipped out into the perimeter and looks to possibly shoot from their zone.

    They've never run the pick-n-roll or banged around the paint waiting for alley oops or putbacks.

    Hunter and Reddish are only 6'7-6'8, and they are exclusively wings who can multiple on defense, but that's it.  Both of them barely average 4 rebounds a game for a reason.

    Anyone (and we know who that is) who suggests Hunter could/should play the fulltime 4 is a monumental buffoon and really bad at this theory-craft stuff.


  18. 3 hours ago, blkbigdog35 said:

    Issac Okoro is a 3 which we are set there.  Not crazy about this mock.  However here is a scouting report link on Issac.

    https://www.nbadraft.net/players/isaac-okoro/

    Ugh. If Golden State ends up with Wiseman I’m gonna be sick.  That would be crazy once Thompson and Curry are back.

    Can you imagine a lineup of Curry, Lee, Thompson, Green, and Wiseman?  That would be hard to beat.  Don’t want to see it.

     

    I’m starting to like Paul Reed as a defensive specialist at the 4.

    Also, Okoro is a terrible mock selection. Horrible defender and not even a good shooter.   Guy is projected for early-mid teens or later on most big boards.  So this is a dumb mock.


  19. 53 minutes ago, jayu70 said:

    4. Hunter at the 4 is road kill. He'll foul out quickly. Hawks are moving forward, they aren't drafting and starting a rookie. Skal might be out for the rest of a season with a knee injury.  Seems to always have an injury so I'm not banking next season on SKal who has only showed enough to be a backup.

    So far, this dude has Collins playing the 3, Hunter and Capella playing the 4, Collins shorter than Hunter, Collins not improving at anything since entering the league, Jaren Jackson rebounds the ball, Collins doesn't rebound the ball, Huerter is slow and has no chance to improve, and some Israeli SF should be drafted to replace Collins because he will be a superstar and won't cost us a max deal.

    And he knows all this because he has season tickets and goes to the games.

    So legit we should all just give up trying.

     


  20. 24 minutes ago, ATLBrave said:

    Doesn’t have rebounding? He’s total rebounding percentage is a full 6 percentage points ahead of Siakam’s and, if he qualified, his career 17 TRB% would rank him in the top 40 of ALL time. **** out of here with that nonsense. Going to games doesn’t entitle you to some special insight into what a player actually does. 

    This clown doesn’t go to games. He’s lying. He already proved that when he said Collins was a SF and shorter than Hunter.

    Nearly everything he’s said in this thread has been laughably wrong or just an absurd assertion.  I stopped wasting my time on him.

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