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Posts posted by ShadyRef

  1. On 8/23/2020 at 8:46 PM, Ergo Proxy said:

    Right. I also thought going back to last year it was interesting to note Dirk was cutting down on some of the verbiage. Less wordiness to accomplish the same thing, so to your point putting your stamps and style on the system and tools is where it’s at. Trying to just copy won’t ever work. I think the trust for Ryan to communicate what he wants should be helping Dirk navigate the adjustment phase between year 1 & 2. Getting the run game back to 2016 and 2017 levels is going to go a long way. It’s basically the factor to look for. It feeds everything else they do from the “make everything look the same” aspect instead of always going 11 personnel and being predictable.

    Part of also what made the system work was Ryan not being able to audible. That's why the run attempts were always adequate under Kyle. Do you think it will be necessary to eliminate the RPOs and return to no audibles again this season? 

  2. 1 hour ago, falconsd56 said:

    The saints were 2nd in dvoa?


    Every time I watched them, their defense was trash......atleast their secondary was.

    They are pretty good upfront but that back end was terrible.


    Its sad how under every coordinator Ryan had been with except for Shanahan, we can't capitalize on defenses with huge weaknesses or dominate ones injury riddled fielding street free agents with our high powered talent. 

    We watch the same struggling defenses get lit up and embarrassed by lesser talented offenses the week after playing us lol. I still don't understand for the life of me how New York giants with washed up Eli and barely any receivers were able to light up the eagles only to watch Sark not use the same game plan on them in our playoffs defeat. 

    I remember Vel or PMF breaking it down. Phillies secondary was getting lit up repeatedly with all the injuries they had that year. Yet Julio Calvin or any of our guys couldn't set it off against them because of repeatedly weak game calling by Sark. We didn't perform against top defenses that year. 

    I never thought Sark was good. His numbers were inflated. I remember too many games his final year when the offense would stagnate for 2 whole quarters only to finally open up after the defenses have sort of put the game away. People tend to forget that but point to stats lying to our eyes claiming it was top 10 because he reached certain numbers. 

    I will miss Kyle and his assistants. I don't think Chris Morgan is a good assistant coach either. He is still living off his time with Kyle. 

  3. 3 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

    It takes a lot of guts for a head coach to hold his hands up and then transfer play calling duties to someone else midseason, so I give DQ a lot of credit for doing that, BUT... That DQ led defense for first half of the year was atrocious (like historically bad, like Saints 2012 bad). For a guy previously known as a defensive guru, I think DQ somehow managed to get off pretty lightly for that sh*t show. 

    Could we argue that the db coach was just horrible for both Manuel and Quinn? I still think Quinn is very capable. Look at the turn around job he did during our superbowl year when he took over from Richard (i forgot his last name). I am not sure if he is good at making assistant coaching decisions.

    He let 2 Shanahan disciples go despite knowing he wanted to keep the offense. If he would've retained one of them and we still performed badly, then the organization and fan base would have supported letting him go. He moved a premium secondary coach in Raheem to offense just to promote Manuel. He hired Henderson who was garbage for both Manuel and him. 

    I hope the growing pains with him are over. Hopefully the loyalty butterflies in him are gone. I like coach whit and the new defensive line coach. I've always thought they've been underperforming for more than a while now. 

  4. 3 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

    I think the most interesting point is how often Morris dropped into coverage on 3rd down, rushing only 3 players.  People hated Manuel for this, but Morris did it as well

    “Morris also wanted more bodies in coverage in general. In fact, the Falcons utilized 3-man rushes on 3rd down twice as much under Morris as they did during the first half of the season. Through those first 8 games, opponents converted 87.5% of 3rddown attempts against these 3-man rushes versus just 6.25% in the second half of the season.”

    To be fair, Manuel had better results rushing 4 that year. We were giving up egregious amount of completions rushing 3. I think that was where the frustration with Manuel boiled with ppl. He didn't have a feel for his guys when they were finally in a rhythm on defense. He will get cute and take them out of it.

    Raheem is just night and day better in what ever look we fielded during the second half last year.

  5. On 7/21/2020 at 8:37 AM, k-train said:

    Season starts under Quinn:

    2015: 6-1 to start, 6-2 halfway through

    2016: 4-1 to start, 5-3 halfway through

    2017: started 3-0 before going 4-4 halfway through

    2018: started 1-4 before going 4-4 halfway through

    2019: 1-7 halfway through to start the year

    So, it’s really only been the past two years that the team had starts that were particularly bad.

    That’s hardly “notorious”, and makes it seem like your statement is suffering from a bit of recency bias... which is understandable, but perhaps not entirely accurate.

    I think he probably means for the team to start hitting their stride on both sides of the ball regardless of record. 

    2016: even though we started the season with a good win/loss record, the team especially the defense didn't start hitting their stride until Quinn to over second half of season. 

    2017: the new defensive coordinator (forgot the name of Quinns buddy) didn't really start hitting their stride with the defense until second half of the season as well.

  6. On 7/15/2020 at 6:06 PM, athell said:


    Matt can't throw a fade to save his life.  Supposed to be high and away, Matt's are always flat and inside.  You will not convince me, not that you are trying, that Julio freaking Jones wouldn't win 50/50 balls majority of the time with his physical traits.

    Matt also struggles with deep balls to Julio and seemingly only Julio.  idk why or what it is, but that is the one connection (outside of fades) these two don't have.

    Great point Athell. As much as I get on Matt about this aspect of his game which contributes to our red zone efficiency woes, i also think it has as much to do with Matt beating himself up for his high turnover rate his rookie year for being aggressive (i prefer this Matt by the way). I think coach Smith coached him out of it. That's why he only attempts these kind of throws only when the game is on the line or back is against the wall instead of making this part of his regular arsenal. If you play as if you are scared of throwing interception all game, those high risk throws become even harder to make when needed. 

    This is where the elite qbs shine over Matt to me. The break the defenses back with these difficult high risk throws because they trust the wr to win even when the defense knows its coming. They make the back shoulder throw, fades, jump balls, even a good jump ball pass on go routes that isn't wobbling in the air for the defender to gather and make a play on the ball. 

  7. 58 minutes ago, atljbo said:



    They got 3 dudes triangle Julio


    the double of julio free up rid


    With the julio thing... I truely think julio gets covered differently man during all hhis snaps.... Im not saying AB and Nuke dont get doubled team but it just seem different for Julio.

    Something that helps is moving around your guy... putting him in the slot or tight alignments to get him away from the double teams..... I remember i think during the 2015 season (shanny) after Julio put them thangs on the Cowboys.... Jerry Jones said he was jealous by how our offense moved julio around and got him favorable matchups.

    But thats why a guy like Hoop can eat good, make the probowl and get a huge contract.... I think Rid will have a big year and Gurley if healthy is about  to eattttttt


    I think Dirk has to get better at critical times during the game and what really really hurt us is penalties at the wrong **** time man...... That just kills everything thing.... We get rolling and get inside the 20 then a dumb*** penalty now has us 1st and 20.


    But yea im just hoping a RB like Gurley and having a legit run game should make Dirk playcalling job more favorable for him and this team

    I totally agree with how Kyle used Julio. I was shocked to see Julio getting schemed open. I will miss Kyle. I wish we would have brought in someone else asides from Dirk. I don't know why we didn't poach any of Kyle's assistants after we fired Sark.

    I know Gurley will eat. I'm more worried once we get either injury along the oline or Todd. We don't fare well. We always blame injuries when we don't do well. Injuries are going to happen. Yes there might be a drop in production but the teams with very good coaches somehow help their units overachieve. Whether that's through masking through scheme or plays... or simply coaching the next man up like Raheem did when he took over. 

  8. 1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

    I wish the Falcons ran more pick plays with receivers crossing each other near LOS.

    The year Peyton threw 50+ TDs in Denver the Broncos ran those plays to perfection and Refs never called penalties on them.

    A good pick play is almost impossible to stop inside 5 yard line.

    Yet why is it hard for our coordinators to do these things? Everything for our offense airways seem like we're plodding and hoping to get a first down. Other teams with less have players running wide open multiple times a game while our players have to execute perfectly with almost any margin of error just to get 5 yards. 

    I laugh when I'm getting ready to watch a game with my friends and the announcer mentions how the opponent is missing 2 corners and are fielding a bunchof street free agents. 4th quarter with 4 minutes left, we're in a close game barely reaching 20 points🤣. We somehow squeak out the win. The same opponent gets blown out or loses convincingly the following week😂


  9. 2 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

    it has to be mostly Matt's problem because not getting the ball to Julio in redzone is a recurring theme across many playcallers.    Maybe Julio is partially to blame as well - dunno.

    I just think Matt is scared to throw picks in the redzone and refuses to throw into a double-team in a compact area.

    Yes. I think he had a phenomenal rookie campaign. I think the playoff loss made him gun shy ever since. I relent during that year, all we had were Roddy and turner. He took chances on those go routes with Roddy even if his defender was stride for stride with him or in the end zone. Turner was the number 1 so he was guaranteed to get his touches. Then Matt to Roddy was number 2. I wish we can get back to that formula. 

  10. 56 minutes ago, atljbo said:

    I know this will not go along with the majority but i dont think  Dirk is a bad OC...Its just after having shanny you can see the difference between the Elite play callers that makes the game easier for the QB, OLine, RB, TE, and WR and the good to OK OCs that can score points but as a fan you can see the flaws big time.


    Thats why im hoping a good to go Gurley will help Dirk with his problem..... The run game andddd scoring within the 20.... Gurley is a big back that can and will help in the 3rd and short game and dude is going to give you 10+ TDs.

     Dude had 14 TDs last year

    With the exception of 2016 and 2015, we always have problem getting our playmaker the ball. Heck I think Tony Gonzalez was probably the main one that overachiever in Dirk's scheme. We always hear excuses that teams are double our triple gaming Julio yet,  Antonio brown, DeAndre, Marques Colston, Micheal Thomas and the list goes on....are getting schemed open or favorable one on one matchups so they could thrive.

    I don't know if it's a Matt problem or play caller problem. We've had some stacked teams only to get easily shut out or drastically underperform with everyone except for kyle. Playoff Teams with much less are executing much better than us on offense. It's just annoying. 

  11. 1 hour ago, Snafu said:

    It's a Shanny staple. The system he runs and the threat of his run game and play action passing game helps protect the O-line.

    I don't understand it to the level of Vandy Vel PMF KOG and the rest of our geniuses on the board. I remember how in one of PMF threads he talks about how well Kyle's mind works by integrating so many parts in to every play design to use as chess pieces for home run plays later during the game. That depth and creativity isn't there with Dirk. It flashes at times but it requires everything to be so perfect at every position to get average results while kyle helps his unit out with so many disguises. 

  12. 18 minutes ago, BUBBASBEANS said:

    Agreed!  Everyone was in awe of KS but the system (which is dependent upon “the threat of and eventual success outside”  from associated commitment and execution) really feeds itself once it’s rolling and that is the beauty which makes the OC a genius is what it opens up.  As you said, staying committed and then understanding how to take advantage of the many opportunities in a way that keeps opponents on their heels is the real key.  I know we’re all praying he can/will.  If DQ is a HC, he will lay down clear expectations and make swift changes if this edict isn’t followed from get go.  I think OL will be an asset in this system (Lindstrom, McGarity, Mathews and Boss Hoss at C).  

    That would mean taking audibles away from Matt. According to this board, they want Matt to call the plays instead. Kyle doesn't allow his qbs to audible because the percentage of run plays will decline. It was evident last year when Matt checked out of them with those run pass option plays. This is something Dirk will have to enforce this season.  I really hope he is studying san Frans plays during this lockdown. He needs to literally steal every run play they ran last year. 

    Anyways, we can only hope. I just don't know why our guys always have blown assignments in the run game but thrived in executing blocks at a high rate when Kyle was here. What does that say about Chris Morgan's ability?

  13. 31 minutes ago, atljbo said:

    If we are going to go in depth into it.... I think that's more shanny system....  His system and his play calling is OLINE friendly... That's why I can't stand the guy but he is a genius... He calls run plays and pass plays out the same sets... So a pass play can look like a run play set and a run play out a normal pass play looking set...  He runs reverse and screens...

    He keeps Defenses off balance so teams can rarely just T off on the QB.


    So a lot of it has to do with playcalling.

    We seem to be having that problem very often with hiring average or below average coaches on the offensive side of the ball despite allocating majority of our cap space to it during Quinn's tenure. I'm still angry we didn't retain any of Kyle's guys after he left. Quinn mucked up there. I don't know why TD or blank didn't step in to smack him upside his head before hiring Sark.

    I have no faith in Dirk. I didn't during his first stint here and I still don't now. I just need him to do enough against playoff caliber defenses and hope our usually under resourced (before Dante Fowler happened) to overachieve this year in to top 5 minimum top 10 again but this time from start to finish. 

  14. 9 hours ago, atljbo said:

    i agree.... But to be fair when we had the established healthy talent.... Our OLine looked good..... Last year the Linstrom  got hurt..... McGary had heart surgey as a rookie and had a rookie type year..... Carpenter was just straight up bad.

    Im still frustrated that Matt Gono never got his chance when chris morgan has rapidly said Matt Gono will be a player.. He just need a opportunity.


    But right now he has the pieces.... He needs to put this **** together

    This is why i question his ability as an oline coach. Under him, we need 1st round picks and elite talent at every position just to be good. Yet been garland and others have filled in seamlessly for their injured line in San Fran and didn't miss a beat.

    That's the sign of a good/great coach to me. Injuries are going to happen in the NFL but we keep granting this man excuses as to why this unit keeps underperformed. A good or great coach get their guys to usually over achieve. Heck look at the job Raheem did mid season with no trufant, what we thought was a regressed Oliver and Rico/kazee at safety. Kyle Shanahan injury or not continue to churn out overachieving offensive units even with an injured oline, back up qb, no receivers etc. One goes down and there isn't much drop off. Same with belicheck and Harbaugh in Baltimore.

    I would have fired him by now Chris Morgan by now. Our cast-offs are outperforming our guys with Kyle. They aren't missing blocks or anything but our line filled with first round picks keep having blown assignments. Something is wrong!

  15. 3 hours ago, takeitdown said:

    I think Ryan has shown he can lead with a throwing team.  I think the disconnect is we've tried to surround him with receivers, but have never (until very recently) seriously invested in OL.

    Yes he's shown that in 2016 but it wouldn't be getting the most out of the offense. It wouldn't be maximizing Ryan's stake in the offense. It would require too many resources (unless we get another Shanahan caliber coordinator) just to see Matt come close to playing like an mvp caliber player consistently.

    If you told me we could have a probowl OL and we had to get 2nd and 3rd round receivers....or a shoddy interior OL and good receivers, I'd always choose the former for a guy like Ryan (really anyone).  If he has a second to pause and throw, he'll find the open guy.  If he doesn't have time, he can't buy it.  

    I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point. Unfortunately Blank's meddling has killed any chances of that which has made things difficult for TD. When the owner makes it public Julio should be given new money, what is TD suppose to do? I don't mind any athlete getting a much as they can honestly. It's just that the shrewd gms would have either traded Julio or Ryan because they are sinking the cap space(not a cap expert) . The cap relief could have been used on defense and shoring up the line. 

    Our lack of focus on pass blocking stability on the OL, particularly OL has never made sense to me.  It enables your QB to flourish, makes the run game better, and makes it so you don't need to spend so much on WR.

    Can't say he hasn't been trying. We have almost all first round picks on the line. First in NFL history. Very expensive line.

    I mean, I know pretty much every team surrounds good QBs with talent (KC is doing it, AZ is doing it, etc) but I like the New Orleans and Patriot model of keeping your QB upright is the best thing you can do for him.

    KC has Patrick on a rookie contract. That enables them to have a gluttony of supporting cast on offense while still being able to spend on defense. Also, asides from their weapons, defenses fear Patrick as well. Can't say the same about Ryan. Defenses fear Julio on offense, Mike turner, Roddy and Gonzo (back in the day because they were great or elite) and dared Matt to beat them deep. Hopefully Todd Gurley will help change that.

    Tom Brady's contract wasn't tying up much cap space. In exchange, he doesn't have barely the arsenal of weapons both Mannings, Matt Ryan, Patrick, Big Ben and many qbs have had.  Even with barely any weapons, defenses still feared Tom Brady (Josh McDaniels is up there with Shanahan). It gave patriots plenty of flexibility to spend on defense and oline.

    Drew Brees contract does tie up cap space but he usually has 2 weapons (one rb and wr). The remaining Cap space for offense is put towards the oline while patching up rest of the offense with cheap free agents or draft picks. They are also good at drafting oline. They are probably the team that is closest to resembling our cap space allocation model but they aren't afraid to spend on defense. Defenses also fear Drew Brees by the way.

    Think about it.  How many times do you see those teams mentioned down by God knows how many points. Defenses are still playing tight and fearful because they feel those qbs are never out of the game. They could catch fire and go on a tear to rally their teams back or have the defense figured out to carve them back in to a competitive game. I can't say that about Ryan. If we are down by two touchdowns, I am almost expecting a loss. If we are down by 3 touchdowns or more, I don't have faith in Ryan to make it competitive. Brees, Brady, Pat can be down by 30 points. I'm still nervous they could come storming back. Ryan use to have that rep during his early years and with the exception of 2016, he isn't much of that guy anymore. Instead we keep getting him more and more toys. 

    We could still pass in that model, and Ryan could still be a high stats guy, but from a much more centered/less chaotic place.

    High stats guy doesn't equate to best falcon team to threaten every year. The more focus we are on building around Ryan is the more time and resources wasted because he needs everything almost perfect around him just to be very good. 

    Our FO has actually invested a lot of capital recently into the D, but when 2 first round DE's bust...it makes it look like you're not.  If those guys had both panned out, it'd look like a good way to build a team.  You're never going to do well when your top picks are flaming out.

    When you mentioned capital then followed it up with draft picks, you've made my point. With the exception of this year (Fowler) and Grady money last year, we've been bargain bin clearance rack shopping on that side of the ball and expecting Quinn to provide us with an award winning defense. The fact that we've even gotten this much out of the defense in which they've outplayed the offense more times than not (except 2016) is embarrassing. TD and Quinn have been money on drafting dbs and linebackers with scary efficiency. Yet we gave up 2 picks for Hayden Hurst, drafted 2 oline in the first round last year (trade picks to move up for McGary, signed Jamon brown,  sambrillo, and carpenter to decent sized contracts last year, drafted Calvin ridley the year before, then add I think with Julio's new contract and Matt's contract tying up space. Freeman was also getting paid for overachieving. Traded a pick for Alex Mack. I'm not sure if I consider the amount allocated on defense "serious capital".


  16. 14 hours ago, Godzilla1985 said:

    Hmm.  You know I never really thought of it in those terms.  If you think about it all of the major FA and draft moves and I mean the big ones (TG, Hoo, Jackson, ) were offensive moves.  He’s never hit for the fences for a generational defensive guy.  I mean it’s almost a “Meh. Defense is ok.  We’ll just out score them”  philosophy we’ve had with TD.


    9 hours ago, Knight of God said:

    We took a #2 WR in the first, spent a second on TE, 2 firsts on OL in the same draft. 

    You guys don't think it is more of an Arthur Blank problem? Even before TD arrived, Rich McKay was forced to over pay for Peerless price because he wants his qbs to have an embarrassment of riches on offense in order to sell tickets. 

    I hated the philosophy shift after Ryan's second year with Mike Mularkey. Yes it ended with an embarrassing playoff loss to the giants but I've always felt if an offense were to be built around Ryan, it has to be the model from his rookie year. Top level runningback (Mike turner)  as the number 1 focal point and let Matt Ryan and his number one receiver/passing game feast. We don't need hall of fame talent at every skill position on offense.

    Arthur blank and front office keeps viewing Matt as if he is Peyton manning. While his intelligence might be as elite, his arm strength and playmaking (some responsibility falls on the OC as well) isn't. I see him as a rich man's version of Jake Delhomme posing as Peyton.

    I love Jake Delhomme by the way. Excellent game manager which is what Matt Ryan should be. It allowed the panthers front office to build him a line and excellent running game with a defense.  Only difference is Jake delhomme didn't eat up nearly as much cap space. 

    My thing is if majority of a teams best talent and cap space is used on offense, then the qb is expected to carry the team to the superbowl and win it. We have first round picks at almost every position on offense but the board keeps complaining if........ he only had a defense. While he hasn't had oline performance Peyton and Brady have had, he has always had plenty of weapons for majority of his time here. He should be putting up numbers higher than Brees (who has had less). With the exception of 2016, his numbers, considering the amount of weapons he had had, i can't imagine what kind of year brees, peyton, Aaron (who has had a bad oline too), big Ben and brady would have had. 

    If we don't get the ring this year, I would like fresh perspective from a new gm. I actually like TD but I think we might have a Jerry Jones-like problem in Atlanta with Blank's meddling. I don't mind moving on from Ryan so we can actually build a defense with solid line, runningback and weapons. Conclude the rebuild with a Jake Delhomme caliber qb.

  17. 10 hours ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

    I've also been thinking this. Last year's red zone offense was horrendous.

    Watching his red zone runs in this clip video makes me very excited about it. That stiff arm on flowers, yikes!


    Yes. I agree the red zone offense wasn't good last year until our coaches finally giving those touches to Ollison.

  18. 21 minutes ago, DonOfThemBirds said:


    They aren't the same type of players. Beasley has always been more of a speed rusher. Harris isn't a speed rusher.


    The only thing they have in common is that they both are primarily edge rushers.


    Beasley can be used in different ways other than just rushing the passer. He could be used as a QB spy and a few other ways. Beasley's problem was the on and off effort and not wanting to develop pass rushing moves.


    Charles Harris is more of just a straight edge rusher. Charles Harris has also never had as much success that Beasley has had up to this point. With proper coaching and how the Falcons will use him, I think Harris could become more consistent than Beasley.


    People on this board like to make comparisons to failed former Falcons players despite them not being in any way similar to each other outside of what their position is on paper.

    Thanks. How do you see him being used here? Can he play SAM? Or is he strictly a nickel rusher? 

    Why wasn't he more productive in Miami's scheme and what makes him possibly good for ours? 

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