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Everything posted by jungleking

  1. You don't give up on a young pass-rusher for a wide receiver. You just don't. And yeah, the receivers suck, but they've sucked for a while. The offense could be really, really bad next year. We'll see.
  2. Roddy has carried that passing offense, though. To me, consistency and dependability is judged from every play, not just every play where the ball is thrown to you. Roddy impacts games more consistently, is more dependably open.
  3. No. It discounts things like consistency and dependability. It's like claiming that the pitcher who threw the single greatest pitch is the best pitcher. There's much more to it than that.
  4. 2008-20012, not 2009-2013. Pulled from pro-football-reference, calculated in Excel.
  5. I didn't include the playoffs because I'm doing this while I try to pack (I'm moving to New Jersey.) But you've got to see why this argument is so baffling for me: we've got a full half decade, basically the prime of both players' careers, where White just squashed Colston in the two most basic receiving stats (I will concede that Colston is much better in the red zone, but with the caveat that Michael Turner likely vultured a few touchdowns from Roddy). If you're looking at this from the outside, you go with Ockham's Razor and pick the simplest solution. And there's a really simple answer here. Roddy's numbers just put him on a different plane. Not much different--I'd love to see either on the Panthers--but different all the same.
  6. I get that they're in different situations. I get that they've got different offenses. But way back when I hopped in on this debate, I was asked what White did to separate himself, so I showed that in their primes, White was simply on another level. And when it's such a big difference, can you at least see why I have trouble putting Colston on the same level as White? Also, White was the clear-cut guy in that sample, bar none. In 2007 White and Colston actually ended up with the same number of yards, so you can open up the sample to another year and still not find a year where Colston beat out White. I feel like a six-year stretch where Colston was never clearly better than White is relevant when discussing who's better.
  7. I honestly don't see how you wrapped the entire argument into one play. Over the volume of the season, White's going to produce more.
  8. I didn't include the postseason for simplicity's sake. Here are the season averages for each player over the five year range where I contend that White emerged as the best receiver in the South. Colston: 72.8 catches, 1030.8 yards. White: 96 catches, 1314.2 yards. That's not close. No matter how you split it, it's not close. Colston is 75% of what Roddy is through that stretch, and it's not a small sample size. That's why I think it's pretty clear that Roddy is the best receiver in the division.
  9. Remind me of when I criticized Colston for the system that he's in?
  10. Let's ignore everything else that it might be and concede that point. Colston just came along and picked up the game faster than Roddy. So what? Roddy passed him. And stayed there.
  11. And do you think that the quality of quarterbacks that they started with may have had something to do with it? Look, we can go round and round on this, but one guy sustained a level that the other guy never got to. Roddy's production just overshadows Colston's, and I'd prefer a football player that produced over one who had some better splits. You are apparently on the other side.
  12. Obviously they won't be exact, but I still think they're useful as a guideline. Everyone else should be subject to the same errors.
  13. No. You're making the argument more convoluted than a rational, unbiased person would. Roddy caught more balls and contributed more yards for every single season over a half decade. And it was by a significant margin. You've got efficiency per catch, Roddy's got percent of team offense, but at the end of the day, neither of those arguments means as much as the total production by each player.
  14. No. They obviously count. I'm offering a different perspective on their careers. The difference between the two receivers during their primes, from 2008-2012 was much greater than the stat that he mentioned would indicate.
  15. No, you're ignoring data that contradicts your point of view. The "matter of volume" argument is nonsense. A receiver's goal is to catch passes and gain yards. Roddy catches more balls and gains more yards! Is Colston more efficient? Sure, but lower volume tends to lead to higher efficiency, and anyway Colston plays with one of the most efficient quarterbacks of all time.
  16. Roddy didn't turn into a dominant receiver for two years, so the career numbers don't truly represent the story of their careers. In every. Single. Year. between 2008 and 2012, Roddy was a step, and sometimes two, ahead of Colston. That 2007-2012 stretch that Roddy put together is more impressive than any similar stretch by any receiver in the division. Colston's never touched that. V-Jax would have to keep up this level of production for another three years, essentially double his production, to get to that level.
  17. Roddy has had five seasons of 1,200 yards or more. Marques Colston has had one. Vincent Jackson has had two. Julio has never had one. White's consistent ability to be the tentpole in a passing offense is unmatched--only Steve Smith had that kind of weight consistently put on him. Roddy's done nothing but separate himself from his competition throughout his career. Now, if you're talking about current production level, Jackson is the best receiver in the division, but that's only assuming that White's decline persists. If you assume Roddy gets healthy, they're a dead heat to me. But they're used in different ways. And what separates Roddy from Jackson even now is that Roddy can make an entire offense go, where Jackson is more of a boom or bust guy.
  18. Wow. That is really bad. Props on the stats.
  19. Okay. Roddy is better at getting open and serving as the primary target of an offense. Which seems like a relevant skill for a wide receiver. You've broken some of the skills that go into producing, but you've ignored their actual production levels.
  20. It said in your article that he was throwing passes....what is going on here? I'm so confused.
  21. Unless the run game takes off like it has the potential to, that's not going to be enough out of your quarterback. Like you're saying, that's the same season that Cam had with his arm last year, but if you take away Cam's running contributions, the offense would've sputtered and died. And I don't see Josh running around like Cam.
  22. That's not even close to the truth. Graham doesn't even start out as an in-line blocker much of the time. He doesn't impact the game as a blocker as much as Olsen. I honestly think he's a receiver, and classify him as such. Best receiver in the South.
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